Integrating Strengths and Engagement at Rivermark Credit Union

Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 12, Episode 8

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

An environment where employees trust leaders, feel safe enough to voice their true concerns and feel truly heard. It's that kind of workplace that Rivermark Credit Union has sought to build and nurture through CliftonStrengths^® and employee engagement. At Rivermark, says Engagement Manager Liz Schumacher, employees feel they have the "space ... to tell us what's really going on." This attitude, infused into the daily conversations about strengths and engagement that fill the halls -- and virtual chats -- at Rivermark, has brought with it a level of trust and psychological safety that has moved its employees toward greater thriving. What are the drivers of this trust? How are Rivermark's managers playing a key role? And what does true engagement look like there? Learn more from Liz in this inspiring webcast.

It's not an indication that you aren't a good manager ... for your team to have a neutral place to come talk.

Liz Schumacher, 27:27

I solidly believe we do not become disengaged on our own. And we don't reengage by ourselves either.

Liz Schumacher, 43:28

Maintain[ing] exceptional workplace environments and still see[ing] the actual natural dip in that -- it's a heartbeat -- ... that's how we treat the Q¹². Do we have a healthy rhythm?

Liz Schumacher, 49:37

Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on March 20, 2024.

Jim Collison 0:05
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room; you can put your questions there. If you're listening after the fact, maybe on the podcast or in a YouTube video, you can send us an email. That email would be coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe to your favorite, on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube there, so you never miss an episode. Coleman Barnes is our host today. Coleman is a Senior Workplace Adviser with Gallup, and his Top 5 are Positivity^®, Strategic^®, Woo^®, Communication^® and Developer^®. And Coleman, welcome to Called to Coach!

Coleman Barnes 1:03
Thank you very much, Jim! I'm looking, looking forward to today's conversation.

Jim Collison 1:07
Yeah, great to have you here. We've got a fabulous guest. We've been spending some time talking to her in the preshow, and that's always -- that's my favorite part. But why don't you take a second and introduce her?

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Coleman Barnes 1:17
Yeah, we sure do. I am so excited for you all to meet Liz Schumacher. She is the Engagement Manager at Rivermark Community Credit Union and is just an absolute rock star at incorporating a strengths-based, engagement-focused approach. And so I'm really excited for you to learn more about their journey. Liz, tell us a little bit more about yourself.

Liz Schumacher 1:35
Well, I'm thrilled to be here with you all today. I am the Engagement Manager at Rivermark Community Credit Union, and I run and administer our entire Gallup program and really focused on our employees' psychological safety and wellbeing and am a part of the Employee Experience Team. So I work very closely with our HR team, as well as our Learning and Development Group.

Coleman Barnes 1:56
Awesome. Fantastic. And I feel like Engagement Manager, that is such a fun role, fun title. Tell me more about kind of what that role entails and how it came to be. I'm curious.

Liz Schumacher 2:05
Sure. It's been a very interesting journey. We started out back in 2018 with some employee coalitions. We were looking at employee experience, we were looking at member experience, and I was very excited about the employee experience coalition; I was putting my hand up for that. And I was put onto the member experience coalition, by intent, to make sure that we had, you know, some balance there. And what came out of that work was really realizing that we had partnered with Gallup starting in 2016-2017. And the feedback from that really was, you know, our exceptional employee experiences is what's going to drive that exceptional member experience at the credit union.

Liz Schumacher 2:45
What we found is not surprising -- that the, the member-facing and the employee-facing had some, you know, unique recommendations, but for the most part, 60% of our recommendations were shared. And so as a result of that work and the employee feedback, what we discovered is we could better support our partnership and leverage our Gallup relationship by having an Engagement Manager. So I essentially pitched that role to create some consistency, a coach the coach, to make sure that we had significant support and consistency available to our managers, and that we're fully leveraging everything in our Gallup partnership. And that was a go in early 2020. And I actually moved officially into my role the day before we sent everybody to work from home due to the pandemic. So how I thought that was gonna roll out, how we sort of had projected the rollout of this role and the support system, looked very different than, than what we had anticipated, right?

The Rivermark-Gallup Partnership

Coleman Barnes 3:51
Yes. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. What a time to start your role. You talked about beginning that partnership 2016-2017. Let's rewind the clock a little bit. What initially prompted Rivermark to partner with Gallup? Was there a kind of a certain problem or a certain thing that you were trying to solve?

Liz Schumacher 4:08
Yes. So at that time, I was in a role on the Learning and Development team. And my manager, who's still currently my manager, was leading the learning and development and employee experience area, and was noticing that we needed more support and consistency for our managers. And we were looking for a shared definition of what quality coaching meant and looked like. And she attended Gallup's work, Summit at Work, in 2016. And it was this, like, connection moment of, Hey, we have the engagement survey. We've got strengths for shared language. We've got Boss to Coach, so we know that we can have consistent manager support and training and tools. And so that really kind of brought together all the pieces that we were looking to, to better support for our managers. So we kicked off our partnership with Gallup in 2017 as a result of that.

Coleman Barnes 5:00
Awesome, very cool. I love that. Because, yeah, these aren't kind of isolated things, right. Employee experience and the manager development and stuff -- we can't attack them as just isolated things. But how do we weave them all together? That's fantastic. Tell me then, kind of, how has the partnership evolved from that first kind of partnering together back in 2016-2017?

Liz Schumacher 5:20
You know, stepping into this role in 2020, some of the things that we really wanted to drive through Gallup was ensuring that we were providing a neutral conversation support for employees and for managers, to make sure that we were breaking some of the cycles around the way in which we interacted with our survey outcomes. So breaking the cycle of dismissing results or diminishing them or having folks feel like they needed to defend them. Really important to make sure that folks were feeling deeply heard and seen, and then to build the trust and safety.

Liz Schumacher 5:51
So a big part of my role was help to repair some team health, discover hidden issues, make sure that we had more context and insights for those overarching organization results, as well as, as the team dynamics. And so as, as we did that, it was really important for me to build trust with the managers. And one of the ways that we did that, you know, they would come and say, "Hey, I have this, this coaching issue, I'm -- tried everything in my toolbox. What can we do?" And really built some trust by having some engagement one-on-ones with individual employees, and then also the manager, to really, you know, uncover, most of the time, the thing that perhaps the manager or the employee thought was the reasoning behind the issue was, wasn't the issue at all, right? Being able to help managers dig into a strengths report and realize that they are trying, unknowingly, to coach away someone's strength. Because, really, it was just that their strength was hindering them. And so they could realign their focus to help coach that strength into being helpful, instead of hindering the employee, and just the relief in that. And the turnaround time, where folks would anticipate, this is going to take months or years, and it was weeks, right. So being able to really support that has been a huge, huge part of, of the work that we're doing.

Coleman Barnes 7:13
About that common language, right? We're not now speaking a different language; we're able to connect, and I feel like we all think that, Oh, yeah, we're all wired the same. But it's like, OK, each of us bring unique strengths to the table. Speaking of which, Liz, tell us about your, your CliftonStrengths. Which Top 5 do you lead with? And how have you seen those play out in your role?

Liz Schumacher 7:30
Yeah, my Top 5 are Input^®, Individualization^®, Strategic^®, Maximizer^® and Ideation^®. In this role, Individualization comes in very high. I also provide a lot of support and resources, so I'm always leading with that No. 1 Input. I was like, Ooh, I have something that could be helpful for you. Right? And, you know, just, I think that that Maximizer piece, always looking to maximize the resources tools, the programs and partnerships that we have. And I would say that plays into the way in which we build off Gallup. Gallup has really been embedded into, genuinely into our everyday life. And it's a strong component of how we consider adding to that. So we've added a performance management tool. And that was specifically something that's like a partner tool with Gallup. There's a spot to put your strengths in that tool. The, there's a section that really is the Role and Relationship Conversation from Gallup. So we're looking to continue to leverage that. And anything that we're adding needs to be able to add to what we have with Gallup. It needs to, you know, really kind of maximize it. Right. So we've added conversation support program, and that times Gallup has been, been huge as well.

Jim Collison 8:47
Liz, let me, let me jump in. As you think about your own Top 5 in your role and growth. How do you, how do you personally kind of manage that growth? Or have you seen growth in that, in those areas where -- or maybe even where, at times, some themes are working, might be working harder than others or you're leaning on those? Can you talk a little bit about your own personal growth in your current role?

Liz Schumacher 9:10
Yeah, I think the ones that are more outward that I first described are the Input and Individualization that are used towards support for others. But I think, really, in building out this full engagement program and having it be a robust support system for our managers and leaders, has really been Strategic, right, and that Ideation piece. And then, as that's coming together, the Maximizer is like, OK, well, how can we make good better? How can we make better best, right? So I think that has really shown up in the program. And I've also had to, to keep those, you know, in check. There's a lot of conversations we have, where it's very important to have authentic, sustainable growth for us. And there are times when it can be tempting -- leaders are like, OK, when are we gonna hit that 70% engagement? And it's like, OK, so this is the measurement, and we got to, we got to do the work.

Liz Schumacher 10:00
And so, as, you know, love a good analogy -- always use an analogy of, if I need to get healthy, I could just roll the scale back and say, "Nailed it," right? Or I can know that I'll check in with that. but I'm going to maybe change some nutrition or, or, or go out and move more. So really focusing on, yes, that, that exceptional workplace metric is what we're aiming for. But what I want to see is folks having the psychological safety to show up for the conversations, for the survey. Of those metrics, the most important one to me is to see that 80% employee participation, or higher. And I want to know that folks can tell us if something's a 2 for them, it's a 2 for them. We can't, we can't do anything different if we don't know. So that, those, those have been more important metrics than even, you know, the engagement mean. That will follow if we have, if we have the rest. And so just making sure that we're focusing on people first; that we're really focusing on what our employee experience is and not just, Hey, did we hit that metric? Right? Yeah.

Building an Environment of Participation in Employee Engagement

Coleman Barnes 11:03
I love that focus on participation, too, because I feel like that speaks to the trust that I can share my opinion. My voice matters here. I believe in the process. And I know something's actually going to happen if I share my voice, too. And to speak that, I know, I mean, you're consistently, as an organization, getting 98%, 99% participation, which speaks to that trust. How did you go about building that? Because I know a lot of our organizations, as they're just starting out, there is that question of Yeah, how do we build that kind of trust in the tool that people can share the ways and stuff? I'd love to, for you to speak more to that.

Liz Schumacher 11:33
I think it's a few different things, right? So in talking to other folks who are Gallup strengths-based organizations, a lot of folks focused on that engagement mean and some of the other metrics first, and then chased the, and then chased after the participation. And we're like, we're gonna flip; I want everyone to be able to tell us where they're at. We're actually in our annual survey window right now, and we'll close that up at the end of the week. But we're at 90% participation right now. We average high 90s. I think the closest, I would love to set a record and just have the survey shut itself down, because everybody showed up. That would be amazing. But we've been really close. We've had just like two or three unanswered surveys organizationwide, out of the organization's nearly 300 employees strong.

Liz Schumacher 12:16
So, you know, I think it was a couple things that, you know, I mentioned earlier, we moved, we really were moving folks away from dismiss, diminish, defend, right? I don't want you to dismiss or diminish my results, because you've already created the narrative as to why those team results are what they are. And I don't want someone to feel like they have to defend. So a couple key things that we implemented to build that trust and provide that space to share is that, of course, when the survey closed, leaders have access to those reports. But one promise that they made to our managers is, I'm not going to come and immediately ask you, Why are the survey outcomes what they are? When you haven't even had a chance to talk to the team and have that postsurvey listening session, be able to get some context and insight from folks. So that was one piece, right?

Liz Schumacher 13:04
That also helped our managers shift from a mindset that this is their report card into this is really a measurement of the health of the team, and what can I support, right? So a really kind of reframing those, those things. And then with my role, we have the first conversation -- it's certainly not the only one -- but I will conduct a listening session with every single team, with their results. And it's a time for the managers, because they're not facilitating that conversation, to deeply listen and be able to take note of what the team is sharing. It also allows me to provide that feedback as the themes and narratives for a group up to leadership and give us more context for the org-wide results.

Moving Away From Dismissing, Diminishing, Defending Survey Results

Liz Schumacher 13:47
And I think one of the pieces that really helped with that is being able to provide those narratives, the themes, the context. Also still, just as the group dynamic, and still in the same way as the survey is anonymous, there's no dismissing or diminishing, because it's like, Oh, well, that was Liz's feedback. So, you know, there's this filter about that feedback. And so what it really did is open up leaders to be able to hear what are, what's working well? What can we help to address? And to your point, Coleman, for employees to know, if I participate in the survey, something's going to come of that, right. So yeah, we saw some shifts that were healthy. And what I mean by that is, we had some teams that were showing up and everything was a 5 all the time. And that, that's I have questions if everything's a 5 all the time, right.

Jim Collison 14:36
That may not always be true.

Liz Schumacher 14:37
That may not always be true. So with this shift, we saw those team scores decline, and a lot of things were on an average of 3. But the win there is that folks showed up for the survey; they didn't either avoid it -- and that's the 80% or higher participation focus. They didn't avoid it, or they didn't just come and, and check a 5 so we don't have to talk about it. They had the safety to come and say, "This has actually been a 3 for me for a while. And here's why."

Coleman Barnes 15:05
Yeah. And coming from a place where it's like, Hey, we want to create a really engaged, thriving team. And so we can't do that unless we actually have those honest voices and feedback. And I was taking notes of, yeah, those Ds of not diminishing, not dismissing, I feel like that's such a great takeaway. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. One thing that I --

Jim Collison 15:23
Liz, can you -- hold on, Coleman; I'm sorry. Can, Liz, can you say those Ds again, just for folks taking notes?

Liz Schumacher 15:28
So really focused -- yes, of course. So really focused -- that we're not Dismissing, Diminishing or Defending our employee experience, right?

Jim Collison 15:37
I didn't, I didn't hear all -- and Deflect was one of the ones I thought of too -- another one where you could add that in. Like, Hey, these are, but we're gonna Deflect this away. I love that. I haven't heard that before. Did you, did you make that up?

Liz Schumacher 15:49
Yeah.

Jim Collison 15:49
Did you get that from someone? That's awesome. That's -- all right. Sorry, I'm fanboying here. I'll, Coleman, I'll send it back to you.

Liz Schumacher 15:54
I'm geeking out on Gallup with you. That's good.

Acting on Survey Results

Coleman Barnes 15:55
That's a Liz Schumacher, Rivermark trademark there. I love that. People are gonna be taking notes. So we talked about kind of that first step of those listening sessions, having those honest conversations. What happens afterwards? How do you make this so this isn't just a survey where, yeah, we step on the scale and don't actually do anything about what the numbers say? How do we act on it?

Liz Schumacher 16:18
So it is the first conversation, right. There's a few things, too, that we've implemented to be really clear on expectations. So for teams that are benchmarking, their team dynamic has totally shifted, or it's new, and they don't have trending data, their action plan is really to work through those Gallup activities that help them to team build, etc., right. We ask them to focus on their action plan before choosing a Q^12® item to focus on. And so we follow it up with, you know, the managers then also hold conversations. They work through the action plans.

Liz Schumacher 16:50
And once we've had that initial listening session, then leaders are, you know, scheduling time to meet with their teams and being really curious about the feedback that they received. And I think that's really kind of built a bridge for folks to feel like, I'm deeply seen. I'm deeply heard. And so we move forward with our plan that way. And then we're, you know, constantly checking in. We're doing pulse checks and, and being really focused on what is the most important thing right now? And we saw that through the pandemic. We did our normal Q¹² survey cycle, and we also included some wellbeing pulse checks. We had some three- to five-question Check-Ins. And again, that was, we want to, we need to hear from you; want to know what's going on. So the, that is something we leverage during any time of change at Rivermark, in addition to, to the Q¹² surveys.

Coleman Barnes 17:38
I love that, about just having a posture of listening and kind of checking in and then kind of hearing the voices. And I think that's so important, because I think sometimes when organizations approach engagement, they think of engagement as, it happens once a year or twice a year around the survey. And engagement is not something that just happens around the survey, right? So how do you incorporate -- we have the action plans. How is this kind of integrated into those ongoing conversations with teams and managers?

Liz Schumacher 18:02
So again, we have our, kind of, Gallup partner performance management tool that we use. And so that's worked into those, you know, weekly Check-Ins, into the one-on-one conversations. The other things that we leverage as well is we have a manager peer support session that we offer once a month. That's a space that's exclusively, intentionally designed to be peer space. So managers are the only ones in that space, and we'll often work through skill practice around the conversation program, around our Gallup items. Folks go into breakout rooms to have an opportunity to connect with each other and discuss, you know, what they're doing to support their teams, as well as, you know, maybe what some of their coaching wins or challenges are.

Liz Schumacher 18:45
And then, we're really focusing that support and repetition on the manager professional development level. So I partner a lot with our Learning and Development Manager. Her and I are getting ready, with the support of a lot of folks internally, to have our second annual managers' conference. So, you know, making sure that we're creating time and space for managers to fully focus on those resources, tools, learning and skill development. So something that we hold offsite for them, it's 2 dedic -- 2 full days dedicated to their learning and growth. And we've set it up in such a way that we run the same conference two times, so that we have coverage. Because we can't, can't shut it down. So we can have half the folks come to one, and half the folks come to the other.

Liz Schumacher 19:30
But it's always really those strong learning and development principles about repetition, right? We use it or we lose it. I think something that's really been a huge support in this role to managers is they can reach out anytime for a coaching consult. I had one last night that was like, Hey, can we, can we talk? Yeah, let's talk about what's going on. And then talking about the approach of, How can we speak to this person's strengths, right? If they're filtering this through a particular strength, how can we make sure that we're supporting them? What questions do we want to ask to make sure we're not making assumptions, right?

Coleman Barnes 20:02
Absolutely.

Jim Collison 20:03
Yeah. How great that -- two things I heard in there. One is, you're intentionally giving time for the development of the managers. Right?

Liz Schumacher 20:10
Yes.

Fostering a Psychologically Safe Environment

Jim Collison 20:11
And that it's not just happening. And you're not throwing books at them. Right. But you're, you're, you're doing, you're, you're designing and developing programs. And then, two, when you've opened up an area where the managers can come and get help, I think sometimes we think, Oh, you're a manager now; you got it all figured out. And they're like, "I'm sinking! I need help!" Right? And then that coaching was strengths-based, right? So they can get an opportunity to come in and hear, OK, here's who I am. And here's the problems I'm facing and how that I do that. I think this is a good time, we have a question. Leslee brought this question in from chat, and she says, What steps are taken or were taken to encourage managers to create psychological safety, a term we're hearing more and more often all the time, for the individual contributor? Thoughts on that?

Liz Schumacher 20:52
Yeah, that really was a big component. And one of the pieces to start having those listening sessions facilitated by the Engagement Manager really had to make sure there was trust and partnership with the manager, to be able to have them see that I'm conducting the same conversation with the same questions that they would. But what we were actually showing is a filter that a lot of employees had, which is, they would tell me things that they weren't sharing with their manager, and not necessarily because they didn't have trust with their manager, but because one of the filters for the employees was, I'm trying to figure out what I think my manager wants me to tell them. And my response to them was, "Your manager wants you to tell them exactly what you just told me. Like, they just want you to tell them how it is," right.

Liz Schumacher 21:41
And so I think that was really eye-opening, especially in the first kind of 18 to 24 months of this program, was really realizing, What were some of the filters that were, were getting in the way? It's not necessarily things that you automatically think of when you think of someone not feeling, like, that psychological safety. It's not always, sometimes those are self-imposed. And so it was very interesting to build trust with the managers, to realize, no one's saying you can't hold this conversation or lead this session; we're getting more deeper, quicker for you with this when your team knows that you can deeply listen -- when I know you're not, that they now know that you're not trying to lead the Q¹² conversation, or they're not trying to figure out which item you want them to focus on. Right? So just kind of created a situation where everyone could show up better, everyone could be more authentic, and created safety for the managers, quite frankly, as well.

Coleman Barnes 22:36
That's fantastic. I love that idea of, yeah, just creating those safe spaces. And Jim, what you were talking about, too, of yeah, creating that manager support, of that kind of peer-to-peer network. I feel like we've been seeing that kind of squeezed on managers lately, of managers are often to do more things with less resources in a changing world and changing environment. And so having that support's huge.

Jim Collison 22:55
Well, we know our numbers say the managers are being neglected more and more. They're being held accountable more and more. And, and they're, they're they're disengaged at levels that are below those ones of the people that they're managing, right. They're the most disengaged group in our database now. And so they, it's great -- listen, it warms my heart to hear you guys, because it's so important that we get the manager role right and then we get that strengths-based, we get it right in a strengths-based way, too, for them. So, so great job on that. Coleman, I'll turn it back over to you.

Coleman Barnes 23:28
Yeah, no, I agree. And not to go all data, but, I mean, and we also know, managers account for 70% of the variance in their teams' engagement. So if they're the ones driving engagement, and they're not engaged and don't have the support, it's really hard for their teams to be engaged. So --

Liz Schumacher 23:41
Well, that was our No. 1 ask, when we, when we kicked this program off was managers saying, Hey, I want to make sure that I have the same, I'm an employee, and my employee experience matches the one that I have an expectation to provide through Gallup to my employees. And so one of the things that we added in, we had the initial listening sessions with all the teams, and then it was really realizing, Hey, let's also make sure that we're addressing that by role. And so, you know, as we do those listening sessions, we're like, we're going by department or team. But we're also holding one for the managers in their peer groups, so that they're getting to speak to their employee experience within their role. And so they can focus on their team's experience, right, in their environment and space, but they're also getting that same support that we're asking them to give, give to their direct reports.

Getting Buy-In for an Engagement and Strengths Focus

Coleman Barnes 24:27
I love that. Focusing on their engagement. I'm curious, as you were rolling this out, and kind of the CliftonStrengths-employee engagement, How did you get that buy-in? Were there any people that might not have gotten on board as quickly? And kind of how do you, how do you gain that buy-in on each level?

Liz Schumacher 24:42
Sure. When the program started, prior to, to the engagement manager role, we really had top-down buy-in. We started with the Top 5 report for everybody and eventually expanded that to the full 34. We implemented the engagement surveys. We put everyone in the manager level and above through, at the time, Leading High-Performance Teams training and brought Gallup on site for that. And what we've continued to do as we move forward is we have Rivermark managers go through Boss to Coach annually; make sure that they're receiving that training. But I think a big piece of it was we had a pretty, I would say, a pretty typical or average rollout, when you follow all the steps that Gallup provides you to onboard your organization and your teams. I think we saw a jump in that with my role, because we were able to give people some space.

Liz Schumacher 25:36
And what I mean by that is, you have different levels of adoption, the whole purpose of this role is to create some consistency in the utilization, making sure that all teams are getting a similar experience. And so, being able to say, Hey, you're fully bought in and using all the tools and resources, that's fantastic. We're gonna keep that going. For folks who maybe weren't, I, again, defend, dismiss, diminish, right? You don't have to tell me why you haven't been using it. It could be that you didn't really buy, buy in yet. It could be that you were bought in but you became overwhelmed. It doesn't matter why. But here's what we're going to do from this point forward: We're going to provide you all the support you need to be able to offer that in the same way that your peers are And so being able to look at that and give them that space to say, "I need a little help. I'm overwhelmed by, by how to get to my resources. I, I'm not sure how to execute this. I want to, but I'm busy. How do I do those things?" Right?

Coleman Barnes 26:29
Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. And I feel like everyone learns differently. And so instead of saying, you know, what's right, you know, it's asking those questions. It's providing that space and providing them the resources. I'd be curious if you have any, like, stories of as you've been on this journey since 2016-2017, of, you know, team engagement increasing or CliftonStrengths playing a really powerful role? I, I, I feel like stories always bring this to life.

Liz Schumacher 26:51
Yeah, I have, I have one Q10 bestie at work that comes to mind. You know, I had, I have mentioned that there's folks who come to work for us who have used Gallup elsewhere. And so occasionally, they'll come in and be like, Yeah, I know Gallup, right. Like, who's this chick? Like, why do I need you to talk to my team, right? I know how to do Gallup. And so a lot of times, we'll ask, like, What did that look like for you at your last organization? Because probably didn't do Gallup the way we do Gallup, right. And so it's interesting to build that trust and relationship, you know, and have folks realize it's not an indication that you aren't a good manager or you can't talk to your team for your team to have a neutral place to come talk. So building that trust, that the space that I'm making for the employee is a safe space, and it's going to support the work that they're doing in their location.

Liz Schumacher 27:49
We've had, you know, some space for employees to come have, I like to say, their sloppy copy. So Hey, I need to have a conversation. I'm nervous to have that conversation. I want my intent to match my impact. And maybe they need to have that conversation with a manager or a teammate or someone else. But they can come kind of talk through that. We can help them feel prepared. My pledge to those employees is, I'm not going to go have your conversation for you. I'm never going to be like, "Hey, Coleman's on his way. We just chatted," right? I'm right next to you, behind you, where you need me to be, so that you can go have your own conversation successfully.

Liz Schumacher 28:25
A lot of times, you know, employees have engagement one-on-ones. So we have a system set up where folks can trust that they can get a minimum of 15 minutes to talk through something if they need to, and that's supported by the managers, without having to say, "Hey, I'm gonna go talk to Liz about this." One of those benefits that we didn't anticipate of launching this role right before we went to working very blended and virtually was that it's given folks a little more privacy and autonomy. Nobody's walking past and saying, like, "Oh, I saw you were talking to Liz. What's going on there?" Right? Because we can have a conversation virtually, you know, using Teams, I can help someone at our, you know, furthest location from me, and then help someone who's at the location that's closest to me. So it's really opened up, you know, a lot more space for support than we would have if we were proceeding the way that we had anticipated we would have before the pandemic.

Integrating CliftonStrengths Into the Organizational Fabric

Coleman Barnes 29:26
I love that. That's awesome. And I feel like I'm just picking up on this consistent theme, right, of you talked about people having previous experiences with Gallup. Sending out the CliftonStrengths assessment is different than creating a strength-based culture -- and so kind of taking it to the next level of incorporating that. How did that look at Rivermark? You talked about first kind of incorporating the Top 5, then kind of going to the 34. How did you incorporate just CliftonStrengths being an assessment into something that's actually just integrated into the fabric of, of how we do work at Rivermark?

Liz Schumacher 29:53
I think it really starts on Day 1. So right off the bat, I meet all of our new hires. We tell them what to expect. We explain how we partner with Gallup. They take their assessment the first week that they're here. You know, in the middle of that week, I meet with them, and we talk through the report and get them oriented with that. We give them their Gallup activity, the first impressions activity, and they fill that out. And they know that one of their first interactions with their manager, one of their first one-on-ones, their manager is going to ask about that and follow up on it. So it's really important for, you know, we let those employees know, these are not labels. We're not putting you in buckets. Here's how we use it, why we use it. This is to really make sure that you're getting individualized support, right, and coaching, and your manager wants to hear how you relate and identify those strengths. They're not, I mean, they are ready for those strengths reports to hit on new hire weeks, right? But they're not going to make any assumptions off those; they want to hear from the employee, How does, how does that resonate for you?

Jim Collison 30:54
I love, I love that conversation, especially in onboarding and the expectation that you're gonna have a conversation about this with your manager fairly early in that. It gets that conversation going with the manager. It also holds the manager accountable, that they've at least looked at the report with them. Now, in a lot of strengths-based organizations, those strengths are going to come back. And so it's behooves the manager to know those or at least have been through it once. But I love the accountability aspect. You have to, you know, you have to inspect what you expect. And so oftentimes, and I'm picking up on some of your phrases here, Liz. You've got some great terms, by the way; you are like, this is like, this is, this is great to catch up on these short little terms that you have.

Busting Engagement Survey Myths

Jim Collison 31:37
But, and so the managers are expected, as part of the onboarding, to know those strengths and those pieces. For folks that are listening on LinkedIn, we, Leslee's out there; she's been asking some great questions. You can ask questions down below in chat on LinkedIn, or over on YouTube, it'll be over one of the sides is there for you. But she asks this question. She says, I had managers tell their reports that they were measured on the Q¹² results. Right. It became a scorecard. I think you were, you talked about this a second ago. But we never said that or used it that way. Did you have this issue? And if, you, know, What did you do? Or what would you do to combat this, if that was the case?

Liz Schumacher 32:17
Absolutely! I love myth-busting. And that's really what we did. Like we have these shared stories and myths that -- not sure where they came from, but if that's sort of the, the way that it's understood by everyone, it's really speaking to those. And so there's a few things that happen. You know, we have Gallup and engagement in our employee experience space. What we found is by creating this position, we, we did a little myth busting on this being the report card, or this is going to be the measurement. And we have built more partnership with HR and broken some of that stigma as well, by the nature of this role. Because what happens is, you might come, come, come to me, and I'm gonna partner you with the person who, who knows what you need.

Liz Schumacher 33:01
But what we saw is that folks were under the impression prior, oh, well, HR is in charge of the survey. So that's why I didn't get the promotion, or this is why I didn't get the raise -- like, whatever that story was, which was not the case, or we're not sure if it's anonymous, right? Those things really were -- it's never been that way, right. But now people truly believe that. And I think, you know, the other thing, too, is we did set a very clear expectation of what measurement it was tied to. So in 2019, we did link our Q¹² to our KPIs, and our strategic plan. And we had a strategic pillar for the organization of employee engagement. And we tied our Gallup metrics to that. And so that was really key too in helping to shift that piece where folks were looking at as the team report card or the manager report card. Folks saying, I, I don't want this to look bad for my manager, so I'm going to rate it higher.

Liz Schumacher 34:00
And so one of the things that we, we continually talk about is, you are rating things on the sum of your, the sum of your experience. And so we have real clarity around, What does that mean? And so I want you to think about, when you answer those Q¹² questions, How is this for you as an individual? How is this for you as a team member? And how is this for you in the organization? And knowing that 5s are not perfection, and they're possible -- 5s are my needs are met consistently, right? And if they're not, I have the safety and space to speak to it. So we're asking someone to, you know, I always give the example Q07, My opinions seem to count. I can feel like this is a strong 5 for me as an individual. I can feel like it's a strong 5 within my team. Maybe it feels like a 3 for me organizationally. I'm gonna rate that a 4. So the ask is, Tell us what it is -- what's the sum of your experience? Because in that listening session, we're getting the context and insights. People don't have to be concerned, Oh, this is going to look poorly on my manager, or there's going to be an assumption about why my results are what they are. I can tell you how I'm feeling or how I interacted with that.

Coleman Barnes 35:06
Absolutely. And I feel like it's, yeah, the survey is the launching pad for meaningful conversations, right? We don't have to try to guess -- wait, when they were answering Materials and equipment, what does that mean? We can actually have those conversations and actually create that safe place where people can talk about what they were thinking or kind of what a 5 would look like for that item.

Jim Collison 35:23
Yeah, it's a lot like strengths, where the assessment's not the end. The end is the conversations that happen, right, the development that happens because of it, the, the pieces, I think sometimes, that -- and that helps maybe break that myth down that this is a report card that I'm going to get judged on, as opposed to, this is a conversation starter that I have with my team to be able to. Because you don't know, Liz, you laid out those three, those three conditions -- myself, or how I feel about that. We don't know that. We need to have that conversation in a safe space, so we can say, Hey, team, how are you guys feeling about this? We've got some things to talk about or to think about. And so it allows that conversation to happen, right?

Liz Schumacher 36:07
Yeah. And then in the conversation, they know what the prompts are going to be for that. Right? We use, we use Gallup prompts for that conversation. So we ask things like, What surprised you? And, you know, What are you proud of? And what's interesting with that sometimes is, folks, a lot of times, people will be like, it's been 2 weeks, and I can't remember what I rated something, which is fine. But sometimes folks say, Hey, I was really surprised. I know, for me, personally, I rated this really high, but I'm seeing my team experience is different. And what that does is open up a space for folks to talk about it. Right. I think one of the reasons the Gallup survey, for me, is tops, like, is that you can allow people the safety to respond anonymously. They know there's going to be a team-based conversation on the team experience. And, and what you don't have is have something that's so anonymous that it only allows people to make assumptions or guesses to fill the gaps. The fact that I can go back and ask, Hey, tell me more about this, you know, not making an assumption, sometimes you'll have surveys that are so anonymous, that it actually backfires on you, right? You can't go back and kind of connect people or get the rest of the story.

The Engagement Manager's Role

Jim Collison 37:20
Coleman, I want to throw one more question in here and then, and turn it back over, kind of turn it back over to you. Rhonda had asked that, again, through our LinkedIn chat: Is there a best, best-practice number of positions like this per number of employees? We have 300, they have you. And do you have other responsibilities, as well, in this?

Liz Schumacher 37:40
I do. I mean, I'm open to have some Certified Strengths Coaches join me. So, you know, I think, as we look towards the future, we're really getting to examine, you know, we have a 3- to 5-year plan; we're in Year 4 of that. We've been meeting that, and so what does it look like to continue to scale this up? I think, currently, the reason that I can support almost 300 folks is because of really healthy time boundaries and proactive scheduling. So my service-level agreement at this time for our employees is that you can get a same-day or next-day time to connect with me, unless I'm on PTO. So there's that, right. But what that has been is I have blocks of time safeguarded for employee engagement. And there's not been a week that's gone by in the last 4 years that we haven't had every single one of the spots used by the end of the week by employees. If I didn't safeguard that time, right, I would be having competing priorities; somebody's going to have to wait much longer and not get that immediate support. And so that has been really key, in terms of being able to support folks and make sure that we're, we're meeting their needs in the moment and that we can address things quickly.

Liz Schumacher 39:02
You know, there's times when I, I'm kind of, I'm the, if you don't know, come ask me and I'm gonna get you with the person you need to be with. There's, you know, we've talked about this before, too. I think we ask a lot of our human resources departments, right, especially when you have smaller teams supporting a lot of folks. And Coleman knows, I've said this before, right, I love getting paid. You do not want me in charge of your, your payroll or compensation, right. I really enjoy having employee benefits. Also not something that, that I should probably be in charge of. And yet, we have all those things, and we think, well, HR will just handle all of that. And it's not that they don't have the time, energy or support for that. But it's really making sure that we're resourced in a way that allows employees to go where they need to be.

Liz Schumacher 39:48
So someone could come to me and ask that question, and I can say, Hey, my partner in HR is the one that you want to talk about that benefits question or payroll with. And there's times, too, where they're also referring folks back to me. Hey, Liz does a lot of communications support; we're gonna recommend that you go chat with her. So in addition to Gallup, I administer our engagement program and all of our Gallup items, I'm a conversation certified facilitator with another organization that we've layered that in. And then also, I help alongside our L&D manager to run our mental health first aid certification for employees. So I've got a lot of components that I'm responsible for, in addition to those employee engagement one-on-ones. I spend hundreds of hours doing facilitated conversation and conversation support. That could be anywhere from helping someone prepare for a conversation or even actually doing communication support series where you meet with each individual separately, there's an agreement to come together. And then each conversation really informs the next. What, you know, we, we really shy away from a one-and-done approach, right? It'd be lovely to just have one conversation and be done. But that's not how this works. So yeah.

Employee Thriving at Work: Moving From Good to Great

Coleman Barnes 41:03
That's awesome. Liz, I loved, you were talking earlier about incorporating engagement and the Q¹² into those kind of as a company kind of Key Performance Indicator. And I feel like I love that, because, you know, we know if we can create engaged teams, that will drive customer metrics; that will drive productivity and profitability, and those other kinds of key metrics and stuff like that. I'm curious, looking at one of the engagement metrics that we look at, at Gallup is the engagement ratio. It basically looks at the amount of engaged employees for every actively disengaged employee; in a sense, the amount of people that are thriving, that are wholeheartedly owning their work, that are there with their time, energy and passion, versus those that are more actively disengaged in their role. One of the things in this journey that we've seen is that ratio has really skyrocketed at Rivermark -- going from, you know, at one point a, more like a 5 or a 6:1 to, at the last survey, a 73:1. Not that that's the gold standard. Right. We know participation, we know getting honest results is so important. But I'm curious. I feel like that's such a vivid ratio. I'm, I'm curious to see, What does that look like? When you, when you walk the halls going from a ratio of, you know, of 6:1 to a 73:1, How have you felt that at Rivermark?

Liz Schumacher 42:09
I think the big flip in that has been the space for folks to tell us what's really going on. Right? So if I'm feeling disengaged, but I don't have the safety to say that, I'm going to be at a 5:1 ratio. And I, I think that, I mean, that felt awesome to see, because you can feel the difference, and having that confirmed through our survey last year that we are at a 73:1 ratio. I think a big part of it is that we have created the safety and the environment for you to say you're disengaged. And I have been that person, and I'm the engagement manager. So that would make it OK for anybody to say that right? Like, you know, there have been times -- I've been with the organization for almost 15 years. And there have been a few key points where I felt disengaged. And the fact that I had the safety to say to someone who cared about me or a manager, "I'm feeling disengaged. And here's why," that made all the difference in the world. So one of the big key things, in addition to the, to the dismiss, diminish, defend was, you don't get to tell anybody or label anybody as disengaged. But what you do get to do is make space for them to say, "I'm feeling disengaged." "I'm feeling actively disengaged." "I'm feeling like it's at risk." And then listen to what we can do to support to actually address that, because I solidly believe we do not become disengaged on our own. And we don't reengage by ourselves either.

Jim Collison 43:35
That's a great, that's a great statement. Puts us all in that place, right, together to do this. When you, when you saw that increase to the 70s, did that change the tone of the conversations around strengths that people were having? In other words -- yeah, not in other words; let me just say it that way. Did the strengths conversations change? Did they get better? Did they get more frequent? Do you have any, any feel for that? And I know I'm asking for anecdotal stuff on this. But any thoughts to that?

Liz Schumacher 44:05
I do think so, because what we saw is a shift in, a shift in management kind of sharing, "Hey, this is what worked for me. This was successful when I was being mentored" to "What does this person need, based off their strengths?" And so a good example of that, which was just such a like, key moment of like, Gallup has done all the heavy lifting; like, just, just go with it, is I had a manager come to me and say, "Hey, I'm having a challenge right now. I have an employee who has canceled or skipped their one-on-ones for this period of time. I can't really get them to engage or talk to me. I'm kind of at a loss to what to do. I'm trying to connect with them. And so I asked a few questions. You know, What does, what does you trying to connect and engage look like? What's the conversation sound like? What's that feel like? And then I went and had a conversation with the employee just to connect and say, "Hey, I'm just checking in. How are you doing?" And they said, "I'm OK. But I'm just feeling like a certain way." Their No. 1 strength was Responsibility^®. And at the end of the day, from my conversation with them, I could go back to the manager and say, "Hey, I want to, let's go look at the coaching questions for Responsibility. And let's see if one of those jumps out for you. Because I think that is your next opener for your next encounter with this person."

Liz Schumacher 45:24
And so we looked at it, and they were like, Yep, For what do you feel responsible for? That's gonna be the one. I check in with them. I'm like, "How did it go?" They went, "It went terrible." I was like, "OK, tell me more. What, what happened?" Like, tell, I asked the question, like, "Tell me exactly what happened." And they're like, "Well, I riffed on it. I just, like I asked, 'What are you working on?'" And I was like, "OK, I'm gonna see you back in and ask you to use the exact wording that Gallup put down. Because that's not the same question when filtered through a Responsibility strength." And Gallup has worded the question to speak to that person's strength. So go, go back and try again, and use the exact wording that Gallup gave you.

Liz Schumacher 46:03
They came back, and they're overjoyed, said, "I've never had this type of encounter with this employee! They wouldn't stop talking. Our one-on-one was 90 minutes; it was only scheduled for 30." And so that power of, of seeing what using those tools as they're designed is, and I think that's been a big piece too of managers telling each other, "Hey, this actually works. Hey, here's my, here's my experience with what happened." And I think that's where we saw a pickup in Year 2 of this role; we had a shift where more people were pro, were reaching out to me to, to connect; then it shifted from me being the one that was the primary person to kind of reach out and ping stuff. So we kind of saw that shift. And I think, those kinds of encounters, when managers are using those tools specific to strengths, then we're actually also dialing in using your strengths to do your work. And so that's that engagement ratio flip for me every time.

True Engagement and Its Impact

Coleman Barnes 47:06
I love that. That's awesome. That's such a great story. And yeah, I mean, we, you don't have to reinvent the wheel, right. We know people's strengths. And we have questions that are tailored to those, those people's strengths. One of the questions that we got in the chat was from Nick, and I thought it was would be a great one to talk about. He asks, Has there been a Q¹² question you have been the most proud of, in terms of change enablement or impact?

Liz Schumacher 47:27
I mean, my favorite Q¹² question is the most controversial of all the Q¹² questions, which is Q10, Best friend at work. And I think that, for me, has been a shift in the engagement as well. I'm sure you can make an argument for any of them. But I will say, Q10, Best friend, one, I love to have a good chat about it when people are like, I do not like the question; I would answer it differently if it didn't use "best friend," right? And we talk through, Hey, toxic teams, people who are friends for survival can give, "I have a friend at work" a 5. But exceptional workplace environments, engaging workplace environments, can give "best friend at work" a 5, and really talking about what's at the root of that question. It's really about belonging and inclusion and safety.

Liz Schumacher 48:11
And where we saw a big shift, too, as we were, we were experiencing the pandemic, we had some major wildfires in our area, we were just having some really unprecedented things happening back to back. And folks who had told me previously, "Best friend means something different to me. I don't care what the definition in the context of the survey is, I'm never gonna give it a 5," gave it a 5 and said, "Hey, you know what flipped for me is people reached out and asked if I was OK -- not tied to a task request, not tied to seeing if I'm logging into work today. But somebody actually cares about me." And I would say Somebody cares about me at work, Q05, and Q10, Best friend, have been the ones that have really, you know, moved for us.

Liz Schumacher 48:54
I think the other thing that we're seeing is healthy rhythms. And that's a focus for us as well. Our focus is not for managers to be, like, I have to get all 5s all the time; the focus is healthy rhythms. So we have a team that has been an exceptional workplace metrics the entire time that they've been in existence. They're a newer team. And part of them being a really great example is, while they're at those exceptional workplace metrics, they also have healthy rhythms within that space. So they had a few folks who promoted to other positions, which is exciting. And my Q10 Best friend doesn't work right next to me in the same space every day. So I still have that relationship, but it feels different. And I'm kind of bummed. So the fact that they can maintain exceptional workplace environments and still see the actual natural dip in that -- it's a heartbeat -- and that's how we treat the Q¹², right. Like, do we have a healthy rhythm? I have questions if we're just at 5s all the time. Right? So I want to see things shift, based off what's actually happening in your life, and it also proves that it's possible to have exceptional workplace metrics and have real life happen, and have things shift down, and then back up.

Coleman Barnes 50:06
Absolutely. I loved what you said at the beginning too about, you can have a team that scores highly in the Q10, and it can be a toxic environment or a really healthy, exceptional environment. And I think that speaks to, that the Q¹² can't be in silos, right? Q10 can't be in a silo with each other. If we have strong Best friends, but we don't have the Materials and equipment and the communication and our end roles that are, that are fit, where we can leverage our strengths, then it can easily turn into a gripe session. But when we have friendships, in addition to having clear expectations and having people that care about me and having the opportunity to do what I do best, it can really just create a really thriving atmosphere. I loved what yeah, Mary said of, Yeah, those healthy rhythms -- such a powerful concept.

Liz Schumacher 50:47
One thing that stood out to me when I very first started working for Rivermark, even, you know, predating Gallup, but feeling like we're harnessing it and using it in conjunction with Gallup is, it really stood out to me how many folks at the credit union had genuine, true friendships and relationships, to the point that we spend a lot of time together during our working hours. And folks were, the number of folks who were opting into spending time in their off hours were, Oh, yeah, we spent the weekend together. We went hiking. And it's like, this is a very unique environment. Right. That's something that's very different. And I think that also kind of speaks to the health of, of the organization is that, you know, we've got a lot of folks who are, have created lifelong relationships just from starting out as, as workmates. And it's something that's pretty unique, I think.

Jim Collison 51:32
It's always good to hear, it's always heartwarming to hear that. You know, I hear a lot of these, but it's always very heartwarming to hear stories like that, as you talk about friendships, because you can feel that. Like, that is a measurement that is felt in an organization, especially when safety -- in this case, wildfires -- are there, right? I mean, and someone just checking in, where it's not a job, it's, that's not a checkmark, it's not a, you know, it's not an implied responsibility. And maybe sometimes it is. In some situations, that would be expected, but I love to hear that. As we kind of think about wrapping this up, I want to hear a little bit from you -- and Coleman, be thinking of a question too -- around the future of this, of strengths and engagement for, what's that look like for you guys? Or as you think, you personally think in your own role for the future, what do you, what gets you excited?

Liz Schumacher 52:24
I think as we continue to grow and becoming a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach last year has really also provided some more additional resources and tools. And so that's given me some, like, well, what's the future look like? Right? That's my, my Futuristic^®'s kicking in and my Maximizer and, you know, I think, as we continue to grow, it would be lovely to have, you know, to the question earlier, there's one of me. So I think it'd be really great to continue to build out the infrastructure of support for our managers, so that they can continue to receive the same level of support that they have been, even as we, as we grow and level up as an organization, and having more folks who feel like they're an expert with those tools.

Coleman Barnes 53:07
Absolutely, yeah, I feel like that, that's so key, especially as you continue to grow, to have those champions, to have those people that are equipping and investing and managers who are then investing in their teams. To wrap us here, let's then, we look forward; let's look backward of, looking back on this journey of 7-8 years, What are you most proud of? From a, looking back on, you know, this journey of becoming strengths-based, becoming engagement-focused, what gets you excited? What are you most proud of?

Liz Schumacher 53:34
I am really proud of our participation and engagement. I think that speaks volumes. That's, that's folks being able to show up, and they're choosing Rivermark. and Rivermark is choosing them. I think it's, you know, knowing that folks' needs are being met on a consistent basis, and that they're showing up for themselves and for each other. And I think we really are able to leverage that. A big component of that has been being a strengths-based organization and having folks honor and respect strengths that they don't, themselves, maybe have very high. And realizing, Hey, this is my partner and counterbalance. Right. And so that, for me, has reframed for a lot of folks, you know, there's no bad strengths, right, or I don't have those, and it's really created deeper partnerships. And for folks to realize, people love leaning into their strengths. I love being able to help out. And so that has been, has been a huge, huge component of the culture, I think.

Jim Collison 54:34
Liz, let me follow up with that, because we've talked about the manager relationship. We've talked about company engagement, but -- and we could probably spend another hour talking about partnerships. When you think about, when you think about partnerships, what's the best, what has been the best inside the organization to really help those partnerships thrive? Not manager, you know, not, not the, not that relationship, but we're talking about team, you know, team members partnering,

Liz Schumacher 55:02
I think knowing that they have support that is outside of that manager level, that, I think the highest compliment is someone saying, "Hey, I need some help. And, and my peer told me I should reach out to you." Right? I think folks are having conversations that they avoided, that they were avoiding for a long time. And now they have the tools and support to be uncomfortable and have the conversation, right. And so I think that has been a big part, a big part.

Jim Collison 55:38
Do you get a sense sometimes those are happening on their own, and it doesn't necessarily need to come from you?

Liz Schumacher 55:43
Correct. Yeah. And so that's, again, that pivot of, like, instead of being the one to sort of, you know, initiate, we're seeing that's happening on its own. Or, getting more to your point, folks coming back and saying, like, "I'm so excited to tell you about this conversation that went so well." And, yeah, so I have had, I would say that was supported by data last year. I had the same amount of hours of support last year than I did the prior year. But I had shorter and more frequent meetings. So I had almost double the meetings, but the same amount of hours. So it's folks just doing a quick Check-In or saying, "Hey, I already did the thing. And I just want to tell you about it." And that's huge.

Jim Collison 56:29
Did you manage that at all through the Someone cares about me question in the Q¹²? Does that pop up at all, as we think about team, team efficiencies or team relationships getting better?

Liz Schumacher 56:42
Yeah. And I'm curious to see what happens with that, you know, this year as we come out of the survey, I think the other thing is that folks feeling like they were able to break through filters, or maybe other people's stories about them, and feeling like they have the space to, to be seen and heard differently.

Jim Collison 57:01
Awesome. Coleman we're at, we're at our time. There's never enough time. But take a second and thank Liz for being here today.

Coleman Barnes 57:07
Yes. Liz, oh, my goodness, it has been such a joy working with you. And I am so excited to see what the future has in store. You really do just embody this strengths-based, engagement-focused approach. And it's been so cool to see just how you've really moved past the check box and seeing how it's just really transformed and created a thriving space at Rivermark. So thank you so much for joining us. I know you're -- it's a busy time in the midst of the survey. So thank you for spending an hour with us.

Liz Schumacher 57:30
Of course! Thank you so much for having me. I love it. Anytime.

Jim Collison 57:33
I'll say that as well, Liz. It's always great. This is my privilege. I get to be on all of these and see them all. And it's, like I said, it's always great to see great things being done. And you still have work ahead for you. So thanks for coming on. And thanks for being a part of this, and thanks for being here today. And I appreciate it as well. Thank you.

Liz Schumacher 57:52
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Jim Collison 57:54
With that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we have available inside Gallup Access. If you haven't been in there in a while, my.gallup.com. Head out there, log in, grab your Top 5 or 34, whatever you have access to. There may be some things that inspired you here today. You can always send us an email. If you're interested in coaching, master coaching, becoming a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. You'll want to join us for the 2024 Gallup at Work Summit. Chances are, by the time you're listening to this -- Liz, you mentioned that -- like, this kind of was the catalyst for a lot of this was Summit, maybe a while back, right. And so maybe you're, some of you are thinking about coming out and joining us. By the time you listen to this, time is drawing near. So head out to gallupatwork.com. You can join us in person here in Omaha or we have a virtual option for you as well. Both will be available on the website. If you're listening to this after June of 2024, I bet we have something else for you. Head out to gallupatwork.com and get signed up today. Stay up to date with all the future webcasts by following us on LinkedIn and Facebook in those groups. You can find all of, anything CliftonStrengths-related just by searching "CliftonStrengths" and social. If you've enjoyed it, hit those Like and Subscribe buttons, like the kids tell you to do on YouTube, and thanks for listening to us today. If you're listening live, thanks for coming out live. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Coleman Barnes' Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Positivity, Strategic, Woo, Communication and Developer.

Liz Schumacher's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Input, Individualization, Strategic, Maximizer and Ideation.

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