Designing Government to Think Like a Team

Jon Clifton:
[0:08] Today in Leading with Strengths, I am joined by the Prime Minister of Slovenia, Robert Golob. Mr. Prime Minister, thank you for joining me today.

Robert Golob:
[0:17] Welcome, good to have you here.

Jon Clifton:
[0:19] When you originally took CliftonStrengths, how did it generally help you with your own development?

Robert Golob:
[0:24] Well, obviously, first you get to know yourself better. Then you get to know your teammates better. But the biggest revelation to me was how much more frictionless we could communicate with each other and how much more productive we became afterwards, that we knew each other's strengths and blind spots as well. That really was sort of insightful, something that I didn't expect, but it happened. And after that, it was much easier to establish the proper roles for each of us within the whole process of making things.

Jon Clifton:
[1:11] What strength is it that you've used most throughout your career in order to be successful?

Robert Golob:
[1:17] Well, that depends on the time frame, meaning that there are certain stages within my career where perhaps Learner and Achiever were the most prominent, but right now it's both the Activator and Strategic and Maximizer who I use most.

Jon Clifton:
[1:34] And talk more about how you use those strengths as prime minister.

Robert Golob:
[1:40] The Activator means that, well, at a certain time you just need to act, meaning that every and each decision is better than no decision. So it helps to not have any qualms about making quick decisions. On the other hand, being strategic means you need to re-evaluate at every turn everything. Yes, that is very helpful if you have that strength within you and not being sort of reliant on other people to do that same evaluation. So Strategic and Activator.

Jon Clifton:
[2:13] Now, a lot of times, CliftonStrengths is also used for the people that work with you to understand you better. You also have an interesting philosophy about looking at someone's all 34. You have Harmony 33. Can you talk more about how you use CliftonStrengths to help the people on your team better understand you?

Robert Golob:
[2:32] Now being the team leader, my blind spots are as important as my strengths because if I do not accept what my blind spots are I'm just setting the wrong process how to work with my people. So for me I will use another example which is Consistency, which is my dead last okay. So for me and I have a Strategic at the second at the number second meaning that I'm very keen of putting in all kinds of ideas around, okay? And some of my people, they just thought that every and each idea that I just uttered, they need to work upon, which is totally wrong. And after like a week or two, I already forgot about the idea and they came up, well, we did this. And I said, who told you to do that? I said, you did. Well, but I changed my mind already three times after that, meaning that I implemented a process saying, okay, we have two different kind of stages. First stage is idea stage. In idea stage every idea is valid, but nobody shall work upon an idea. We shall just brainstorm the ideas. The second stage is once we agree on what we will do with ideas and then it's not an idea anymore but it's an order. And every and each time when I discussed anything with my team, I said okay this is the idea, now this is the order. They knew when to act and when to discuss it. It was so important because that really enhanced the productivity of the team because they didn't work in vain, they didn't work in you know like freefall afterwards because they knew when to act and when just to think and reflect upon.

Jon Clifton:
[4:16] And what advice would you have for a young person who has Strategic?

Robert Golob:
[4:20] Together with Learner, I think that's one of the most beneficial that you can have because having a Strategic means that you always explore various paths how to move forward so you're not set saying I'm going down this path no matter what happens. So most of the time that's too risky. If you're adaptive enough, then Strategic really comes handy saying okay I don't really care which path I follow. The important thing is that I come to my objective, and to me that that's really one of the ways how to really overcome the biggest obstacle. Because most of the time you cannot go through. But pretty much to me, you could go around every and each time. And being Strategic, it's how you look how to go around these obstacles that are inevitable in everyone's life.

Jon Clifton:
[5:16] Talk more about where you get your inspiration for Futuristic, but also when you're using it, how far do you think into the future?

Robert Golob:
[5:25] This is a good question. My philosophy is you need to look into like 10 years from now and be as optimistic as possible. But then you only plan one step at a time how to get to your main objective. Main objective is really far off, so you can be ambitious. Because if it's too close, then you are not very ambitious usually when you set the goal. Because you don't feel confident. If you set it far enough, you can be as ambitious as possible. But then you plan only each step at a time. And just be adaptable as well. And usually you, by utilizing this approach, once you get there, you see that you achieved much more than you ever planned. But you need to be adaptive. If you are too rigid in how you set your steps, usually you don't achieve anything.

Jon Clifton:
[6:22] In our research, one of the four things that we've identified as the needs of followers is the importance of hope. You've talked a lot about the importance of hope within your leadership. What strengths do you use in order to create hope, whether it's in the private sector or the public sector?

Robert Golob:
[6:39] This is where the Maximizer comes into the picture. Because the Maximizers, we do know that we need to enhance our team. And the best way to really enhance your team is to present them with a vision of hope. But not just hope, a vision of a better world for tomorrow. And that's where the Maximizers, I think, we are the best. Strategic helps as well because you can show that there are different paths how to achieve those results so we're not stuck on one path which perhaps after six months or a year gets you know all bogged down. But we can pick the different paths in order to proceed and that helps as well in not a setting the hope but you know just keeping it up at an extended period of time.

Jon Clifton:
[7:30] Now, you have Maximizer number one. People with Maximizer are often known to bring out the best in others. How do you do that in your role as prime minister?

Robert Golob:
[7:38] But this is more about a personal philosophy saying that no matter how good you are, it's only one of you. And unless you can unleash the potential of all the others you cannot really achieve big things. Being Achiever as well I know that I need to maximize others in order to get you know big results. So it's pretty ... I would call it natural to me to maximize the value and the results of a team and not me personally, because I'm just a leader and I'm as good as my team is. So it comes natural.

Jon Clifton:
[8:10] If someone had Maximizer in their top five, a student who just got in touch with their CliftonStrengths, what advice would you give them?

Robert Golob:
[8:19] I'll give a story now. The first three tests that we did in my previous company were done by me and two psychologists. We all had Maximizer at the top, but each of those three Maximizers was totally different. So mine was okay, I will maximize the team results. The second one was I will maximize my own personal development. And the third one was I will maximize the benefits to other people. Totally different okay? So now if you're a Maximizer I would say it's better to focus on other people than on yourself because you can only maximize yourself up to a certain point and then you're stuck. So through other people you can grow much faster than through yourself alone. So focus on other people and then on the other hand, let's take a look what your other strengths are. This is something that you need to take a combination of the strengths and you can come with you know long-run goal shall be for you as a Maximizer. But just focusing on yourself, it's not enough for being a Maximizer.

Jon Clifton:
[9:28] Now, you had a successful career in the private sector and yet you moved recently to the public sector. What strength inspired that?

Robert Golob:
[9:36] Maybe it was the Maximizer, meaning that I wanted to maximize not just my professional life but also, let's call it, total life experience, meaning my private life combined with a professional. I was not very happy with the development of the things within the Slovenian society or Slovenian political system. And then I just, at a certain point of time, you know, after some reflection, it just came to it that, well, I need to do something about it. It's not enough, the Activator, it's not enough just, you know, go around and speak what's wrong with the government, what's wrong with the political system. But, well, if you're good enough to speak what's wrong, then you should also act upon and make it better. And that's really what I think the Activator ... Maximizer and the Activator were the two most decisive strengths in this regard.

Jon Clifton:
[10:34] Now, I think as an Activator, all Activators are inspired to encourage others to take action, to take action immediately. More recently, you gave a speech in front of the European Parliament to encourage everyone to take action on a number of issues. What advice would you give those that also have Activator on how they can successfully use Activator and also use it at scale?

Robert Golob:
[11:02] Now, being the Activator means pretty much, do not reflect too much, just do it, okay? That sounds a little risky from time to time if you don't implement first the ideation process in a proper way. Meaning that the Activators we need to have within a team, a person who is more in the ideation, creative if you want, phase of a process, and act only upon when they finish their ideation phase. Which is again idea or order. I could not act unless we already make a decision that we move from the ideation, the idea to the order phase. This is very important. Once we got there I was like I'm like pushing people like mad, but only once we get from one stage the ideation stage to the order or operative stage. So this is very important to know when you are the Activator. You shall not move too fast. You need to let other people do the ideation process first. You need to be patient, and only when that is over then you employ your Activator strength at a full speed.

Jon Clifton:
[12:17] And how about if someone just learned their CliftonStrengths and they have Activator in their top five. What advice would you give them?

Robert Golob:
[12:22] Okay now you're asking me I'm not a coach here. But, okay, being an Activator, yeah, it's good. Every team needs an Activator, but it's very important to know when to activate. It's not always a good thing to activate, too soon or too late. So find about the timing, and once you know that the timing is right, you know, just do it.

Jon Clifton:
[12:48] Now, one of the underlying ideas or purposes of CliftonStrengths is to just understand each other better. You have a great story about a colleague of yours that you did not know that they had Restorative in their top five. Can you talk about that story?

Robert Golob:
[13:02] Yeah, well, the first thing is about strengths, once you implement the test and you get to know it. First, you need you get to know it yourself much better. The next second step is you get to know your coworkers, your team members much, much better. And I had a very close colleague. I was working with him for like more than five years, and he was quite significant part of our organization. And before undertaking the test, nobody knew what was wrong with him because he was very hardworking but, every and each time the team was counting on him, he was slow in obtaining the results we were expecting. Once he undertook the test, we found out he was Restorative, meaning that he was really hardworking, but he couldn't let go because of the last detail, which was not finished yet. And all of the team was like, come on guy, please just put forth whatever you did. You don't have to finish it by 100%, but he couldn't let go. We didn't know at the time what was wrong with him. Once we saw it was Restorative, we just set a very strict time limit and say, whatever you have up to this, you know, time mark, you just have to give it away. And that's how we help him in order to be more productive member of the team. And not just productive in terms of results, but also in terms of the atmosphere and how the team saw himself.

Jon Clifton:
[14:31] Now, Achievers often have very big goals. What big goals do you have for the government as an Achiever?

Robert Golob:
[14:39] The Achievers, we want to have, we need to have a mixture of goals. We need to have a set of small goals that at least one of them is achieved every day and each day. We need that because that's how we get fuel for our, for get going. On the other hand, we are also very ambitious when it comes to long-term goals. So I always do it both. I said, okay, this is the long-term goal, which is very ambitious. And then this is the next day goal or next week goal that I want to achieve to feel happy on the road, on a path to the much larger goal. If I only said this one, I'd be totally unsatisfied throughout the journey. And I wouldn't really be able to come to the end of it.

Jon Clifton:
[15:23] Even in the absence of CliftonStrengths, how do you use positive psychology in your own leadership?

Robert Golob:
[15:31] I cannot see any other way to instill hope in people but by being positive. Because by being positive you really inspire people, not just to follow you, but inspire people to bring out the best out of them. And it helps yourself to get calmer sleep as well. I know people who every waking hour they just think about the problems that they will be facing either next day or next week or they faced in the past. I never do that. I'm always keeping a positive approach because that's really what helps me, you know, getting a good night's sleep. But not just that, it helps me to help other people to do big things.

Jon Clifton:
[16:19] When you look at your strengths, are there other leaders that you are aware of that may have a similar kind of set of strengths or philosophies that inspire you in your work? And if so, who is it?

Robert Golob:
[16:31] What attracted me to CliftonStrengths is that there are so many combinations. It's very hard to find two persons who are very much alike, meaning that it's more about awareness of what the strengths are and the blind spots are, and then utilize them, and that's what makes a good leader by knowing himself and utilizing it, than anything else.

Jon Clifton:
[16:54] Your leadership really kicked off when you were an entrepreneur, a CEO and chairman in the private sector. And then since you've moved to the public sector. How did the use of your own strengths change as you made that transition?

Robert Golob:
[17:08] These are two totally different environments. In one environment, you pick your own personnel, you set your own goals, and you set the pace. In the other environment, which is the administration, you really have to work with people that you inherit. The goals are set by the public and the pace is being set by the changing environment. So it's much harder to really be successful when it comes to making big changes in administration than in the business community. On the other hand, the rewards are much higher in business community, so sometimes it's hard to get motivated. But on the other hand, the legacy that you can really implement within the administration, it's what sets you forth.

Jon Clifton:
[17:56] Now, again, Maximizers know how to identify what's best about people. What would you say is the best about Slovenia?

Robert Golob:
[18:04] There was an American blog ranking the states of where the best states to live in for like American residents moving abroad. Spain was at the top, Portugal ... we're fourth within the European Union. Slovenia was ranked fourth. It was kind of a surprise and not so, meaning that the costs of living are rather low compared to some more developed countries, but the standard of living is quite high when it comes to, again, moving or relocating to Slovenia. It's the nature, which means that in a rather small area you can find pretty much everything from sea to the mountains, from rivers to forests, so it's a rather diverse country. On the other hand, and then the security issues are pretty much non-existent, saying it's rather or quite secure to live in Slovenia compared to every other European country.

Jon Clifton:
[19:06] And one ranking where Slovenia struggles is in Gallup's ranking on engaged workplaces. In our most recent rankings, Slovenia was ranked among the bottom in terms of the percent of people who are engaged or fully engaged in their jobs. Is there a solution for that or what are your thoughts about that particular ranking?

Robert Golob:
[19:26] Well I certainly hope that utilizing more strengths is going to be a solution to that. Of course that depends on the either we discuss the public sector or the private sector. I think in private sector things are much better than in the public, but we have a very big public sector. Yes, after the pandemic, after COVID, the engagement fell significantly. So we are, this is one of the top priorities that we need to address, especially in the public sector, how to really raise the engagement and raise the motivation for, yeah, for results.

Jon Clifton:
[20:02] You have Strategic top five, and Futuristic's your number 10, but what role would you like Slovenia to play with respect to the European Union?

Robert Golob:
[20:10] In a way, we are a catalyst, saying that whenever we feel ... We are small. Being small means that, okay, we can be more ambitious in addressing the problems of the future. Saying, okay, when we see there is a clear path forward and then there are bigger countries moving slower than we are, we can really fast track many things. And when we see the solutions, then we can be vocal about it and also propagating the Union itself to move in that direction. Which was the case like last year when we had this how to respond to the energy crisis within Europe. We saw a path forward, we were very vocal about it and we didn't stay put at the national level. We really were advocating for the changes at the European level. e were quite successful and now the crisis is pretty much almost over.

Jon Clifton:
[21:07] And thinking futuristically about the Slovenian government, what do you think is the future for how the government operates?

Robert Golob:
[21:15] So ideally, by implementing all kinds of various positive thinking methodology and tools, we would first improve the engagement, especially in the public sector, but also in the other, in the private as well. By doing that, untap the potential and then raised the productivity. But I need to be very specific here. I do not believe in the low wage economy. I believe and that's where Slovenia could be among the best in the future. Because we have very good public school system and university system. And our researchers and scientists are among the best in the world. But at the moment we are not so capable of scaling it up into the business community. So setting the things in a proper manner, I think we can get much more out of our scientists and researchers in terms of economic benefits as well. And this is where we could be among the best in the world, and it's either is that the space technology or is automotive technology or artificial intelligence. All of these areas we have top-notch scientists.

Jon Clifton:
[22:30] Mr. Prime Minister, thank you for this candid discussion about your strengths. Thank you for bringing strengths all throughout the government here in Slovenia.

Robert Golob:
[22:40] Well, glad to have you here and I hope we will be able to inspire other people not just in Slovenia but also abroad to go and follow the same path.

Jon Clifton:
[22:51] Amen, thank you.

Transcript autogenerated using AI.