Scaling Empathy to Make Wishes Come True

Jon Clifton:
[0:00] I think you said 16,000 wishes are granted every single year. Out of all of them, which is the one that you're most proud of?

Leslie Motter:
[0:08] Oh my gosh.

Jon Clifton:
[0:18] The Make-A-Wish Foundation is a household name, one that inspires thoughts of hope, kindness, and compassion. But behind that name lies a powerful network of people that turn seemingly impossible dreams into realities for children and families. You'll meet Make-A-Wish President and CEO, Leslie Motter, the leader who turns a spark of hope into a nationwide movement. Guided by Empathy, Leslie is a CEO who listens first, feels deeply, and acts decisively to make miracles happen.

Leslie, thank you for being here today.

Leslie Motter:
[0:59] Thank you for having me.

Jon Clifton:
[1:00] Now can you just talk a little bit about your journey. You were in financial services if I understand correctly, and then you went to Make-A-Wish. What drew you in that direction, or what were you thinking at that time?

Leslie Motter:
[1:13] Absolutely. I did spend most of my professional career in financial services with amazing organizations that I really enjoyed being a part of. I think at all of those organizations, I found myself, when I had free time, being a board member, a volunteer, a donor, et cetera, in the nonprofit space. And when I was with American Express, I also sat on the TGC, a Thunderbird Global Leadership Council. And as part of that, I got to see some amazing content and professors and saw the strength of that program. And I saw this opportunity as I sat on boards that there was not the same level of investment and development in leadership in nonprofits for obvious reasons. Every dollar is either going to your mission or going internally to operations. We brought executives from various nonprofits around the world in and put them through a one-week mini-MBA. Marketing and finance and technology and everything that you would expect to rave reviews. And as part of that process, I met the previous CEO of Make-A-Wish, and we kept in touch. And he kept trying to recruit me for different opportunities, and it was never the right time. And finally, I thought ... Why not? If I can make a difference from the inside, why not do that?

Jon Clifton:
[2:38] Now, we've looked at your strengths. Which one of them drew you to making that switch?

Leslie Motter:
[2:45] I think there probably were two. As you know, Empathy is my number one strength. And I was on an airplane from New York to Phoenix when I was trying to decide. At the time, I was doing a little consulting after I left American Express. I was trying to decide if I was going to make the leap to nonprofit, which obviously I'd never done before. And I read a book called Hope's Wish about a little girl, Hope Stout, in North Carolina. And it was an amazing story of this little girl. And every child has the opportunity at Make-A-Wish to make a wish. And when she found out there were other children waiting for a wish that did not have their wish granted yet, her wish was to raise enough money to grant every single wish in the state of North Carolina where she lived. It was an amazing story. They had their first gala, raised amazing amount of money to be able to do that. Sadly, Hope passed away, but all of those wishes happened because of her. And when I read that, it touched me deeply. And I thought about the courage that these children have when they face something that no child should ever have to face.

So I think the Empathy, I think Empathy is really what initially drew me to Make-A-Wish, and I think the Connectedness is what has kept me there, because I really do feel like I'm exactly where I'm supposed to be, that all of my experiences have led me to this. I'm very comfortable talking to any corporate partner. I can put myself in their shoes, think about what perspective they're coming from, what might make a good partnership for them, et cetera. I think about all that has been invested in me over the years and all of the experiences that I've gained, being able to bring those for-profit best practices to a nonprofit so that we can grant even more wishes and touch even more lives going forward.

Jon Clifton:
[4:45] When you talk about your own Empathy, I don't know if you say that it might be misunderstood, but it's certainly where you get your courage. Can you talk more about what that means?

Leslie Motter:
[4:56] Absolutely. Absolutely. I have to tell you, I thought that the StrengthsFinder was wrong when it had Empathy as my number one. Anybody that is close to me, my family and friends, would not describe me as touchy-feely whatsoever. I'm very rational and logical and objective and impatient, frankly, and like to move quickly and like to do things. I see all the possibilities and I do see Empathy now and for me it does not show up as touchy-feely because I can make very difficult decisions and I am, maybe it's the Responsibility, I am very committed to trying to do the right thing always. Don't always get it right but I am, but it doesn't show up as touchy-feely. It shows up in a care for other people. It just is not what I thought about when I thought about Empathy.

Jon Clifton:
[5:42] You know, we've studied the needs that people have, and one of them that they want in leaders is compassion. We've even seen that when we're quantifying the emotional economy within organizations, this is Q5 on our Q12, which is, you know, does someone care about me at work?

Leslie Motter:
[5:59] We really try to create a culture where that is, in fact, our way of working at Make-A-Wish. So we do that a number of different ways. We do annual employee engagement survey, Gallup employee engagement survey. We do pulse surveys along the way. We check in from a customer perspective. We have employees in every geography in order to be able to support those wish families, et cetera. We have celebrities that grant our wishes. We have corporate sponsors that come alongside us and help make the funding possible, et cetera. So we do have a lot of different constituencies. I think, you know, appreciation is a big part of that. Again, painting the picture of where you're going from a strategy perspective, being able to really link and label their role in the amazing mission of Make-A-Wish and frankly of our vision. So our vision is to reach every eligible child. We are not there yet. We still have two children waiting for every wish that we are able to grant. So we have a very, very lofty goal. And when you're able to paint that picture, it's pretty easy to get people rallied alongside you in order to accomplish that.

Jon Clifton:
[7:17] Speaking of the families, you know, I think you said 16,000 wishes are granted every single year. Out of all of them, which is the one that you're most proud of?

Leslie Motter:
[7:27] Oh my gosh. Yeah, we've granted more than 615,000 wishes, actually. This is going to be our 45th year that we're celebrating 45 years of Make-A-Wish. You know, I'll speak to Adelaide. I met Adelaide a year and a half ago, and her wish was to meet Dwayne Johnson, which many kids wish to meet The Rock for many different reasons. And I think that's the other thing that's so special is when you really hear the why behind each child and why they picked to meet a certain celebrity, to go a certain place, etc., it touches your heart in such a such a meaningful ...

Jon Clifton:
[8:05] What was her why?

Leslie Motter:
[8:06] She loved that he is all about family and she's all about family. And she loves what he represents and how he speaks about his family, and she speaks exactly the same way about her family. And she loves the fact that he's bald because she was also bald as she was going through treatments, etc. she lost her hair, and when she met him she asked him to become a member of Team Bald, which he did.

So Adelaide, just such a special young woman. And again, the way she talked about her family, her positivity, her smile, absolutely contagious. She wasn't concentrating on the fact that she had lost her hair or that she didn't have stamina or she needed to rest or any of the things that she was facing that really she shouldn't have to be facing as a beautiful young woman. Instead, she was talking about her mom and how her mom had helped her through the years and through all of the procedures and so forth. She's talking about her family. She's talking about Dwayne Johnson and what an inspiration he is, et cetera. So it just really touched my heart in such a deep way. And I will tell you that DJ and I had the opportunity to have some time together at that wish and other group wishes that he's done over the years. And when I thanked him on behalf of Make-A-Wish, on behalf of all of these children, et cetera, I will tell you that he said the honor is all his. The honor is all his. That these kids can have anything. They can go anywhere, do anything. And that they choose to meet him, he'll always say yes. Amazing. Amazing. It's, again, six degrees of celebration, which is something I love to talk about at Make-A-Wish. If anybody hears about Make-A-Wish, there's a story. There's a cousin. There's a child. There's a college roommate. There's a neighbor, et cetera. And it's always a joyous story about celebration and what the hope, strength, and joy has meant to that community.

Jon Clifton:
[10:22] I mean, the network must be remarkable. But how is it that you go about reaching out to say we have a wish that needs fulfilled and you're the one there would like to bring on board?

Leslie Motter:
[10:33] We have been so blessed with all of the individuals that have donated, have given their time, their talent, their treasure, etc., and it's really remarkable when I think that, a celebrity experiences the child and experiences the joy that they bring that child and the fact that they're able to make a difference, it's rare that somebody says no to that. And they want to be involved and want to figure out how they can be more involved. We have several celebrities. Next month, April, is our World Wish Month. We celebrate every single year the founding of the organization. And as part of that, we have so many celebrities that will go on Insta or go wherever on social media and encourage others to become wishmakers too. So they're wishmakers. They make wishes come true. There's so many ways for others to become wishmakers, whether it's volunteering or donating or whatever that might be. But once they're touched, they encourage others to become wishmakers too. So we've been incredibly fortunate.

Jon Clifton:
[11:40] When you're trying to bring hope for families, when you're doing it with constituents like your colleagues, your employees, is there a way that you do it differently or how is it that you exhibit hope?

Leslie Motter:
[11:50] I think part of it really relies on the Strategic strength that we talked about previously and it is painting that picture. As I mentioned, the every eligible child that we're not reaching every eligible child out there. We know the power of a wish, what it means not just to the individual child, to their siblings, to their parents, to their caregivers. I hear it from doctors and nurses all the time, the joy that they have and be able to tell a family you're eligible for a wish, et cetera. So being able to paint that picture of here's where we need to go. We have not yet reached our goal. We want to get to every eligible child. That, I think, really helps to inspire hope of, okay, how are we going to get there? What does that look like? So I think the strategy of painting where we need to go, and then the steps to get there. What do we need to do? Which areas do we need to focus? Where do we need to lean in? Where do we need help, et cetera? I think that helps inspire hope.

Jon Clifton:
[12:51] You know, you mentioned one of the wishes is something to do with a U.S. president. We're here in Washington. What is it that kids are asking for? Is it just to meet the president as they want to sit in the Oval? What's the wish?

Leslie Motter:
[13:03] Every wish is different. It's been different. We've had kids wish to sit in the Oval Office, but many of them want to meet the president. And they have various reasons. And again, everyone is completely unique, which is another just beautiful thing about this experience is that each wish is customized. What is really meaningful to that child? What will give them hope to get through their treatments? What will give them strength to do things that they don't want to do anymore? They're tired and it hurts and so forth. What will bring them joy? So it's very, very unique. But most of them want to meet the president.

Jon Clifton:
[13:40] But is there one of the president stories that's your favorite?

Leslie Motter:
[13:44] Oh my gosh. Again, no, I, everyone is so unique. I just, I love every single one. We did, we were joined last April here in DC. We had a wonderful event, celebrating again, our world wish month as we do every single year. And we were joined by a little boy who had a wish to meet a president and had that wish granted. And he actually was in complete red, white, and blue attire, a suit, adorable, adorable, adorable. He sticks with me just because he's still so passionate about his love of history and his love of understanding more about the presidency, etc. So he really probably sticks out to me because his joy was contagious.

Jon Clifton:
[14:34] What would you say was the hardest one that you and your colleagues, board members, volunteers, everybody came together and said, that was really tough that we pulled that one off, but it's amazing?

Leslie Motter:
[14:45] There are a number of miracle stories of pulling off wishes that wasn't sure how the heck we were going to be able to do that. I think two that come to mind are a little boy from Georgia that wanted to go on a red rocket ship into space. That was a really, really fun one. We pulled in VR experts to help us create this experience for him. And what was really, he was just an amazing little boy. And I loved, loved, loved that wish, the creativity of the team to make it happen. And the smile on his face, talking about it after the fact was amazing. I think one that I continue to be really impressed with not only our ability to pull it off, but the why behind it from the child was a child that wished to meet the pope. That was by no way, no means an easy feat, you know, obviously. So luckily, we have an amazing network.

So we do grant every child who is eligible for a wish receives a wish for us. And we have this incredible federated network where we have 57 chapters across the U.S. and we have affiliates internationally as well. So if one chapter doesn't have the financial resources to make it happen, other chapters can help donate, can help give money to make that wish come true. We also have incredible resources at the national office. So we have relationships, as I mentioned. We have relationships with every celebrity, every corporation, incredible partners that will help us when we call and we don't have another place to turn. They help to make those wishes happen, which is pretty remarkable. I think the network is so strong and caring and wants to be, again, part of something bigger than themselves.

Jon Clifton:
[16:43] You know, you are also known as a prolific fundraiser. I mean, I think something that you did even 15 years ago, very successfully for a nonprofit that you were involved in, and you raised a lot of money for them. That's a key aspect of anyone who wants to be in the world of nonprofits, of foundations. Any aspiring executive has to have that in mind. What strengths do you draw upon in order to fundraise?

Leslie Motter:
[17:10] I think one would be Empathy, which doesn't sound maybe intuitive. But knowing the motivation behind someone else, why they would want to be involved with the organization, what would be ... what would feel good to them to give, the why behind what they would want to do, how they would want to be involved, because it's very different. It's not always financial resources. We've got so many other ways to be involved. So actually, I think Empathy is a part of it, being able to resonate communication skills, obviously. You need to be able to articulate the strategy, again, painting the why we need you to be involved, why it's so important, and really what we're all about as an organization, the mission of the organization. So probably those strengths more than any others, I would say.

Jon Clifton:
[18:02] And what about keeping them involved? You know, sometimes we even see this at a macro level. So we look at generosity. Globally, we've seen that there's been a slight decline when you look at the global picture on people who are giving time, giving money, even helping strangers. How do you make sure there isn't, you know, donor fatigue? How do you keep those relationships? What strength do you draw upon?

Leslie Motter:
[18:24] I try to keep them connected to the mission. And that is sharing, as I said, mission moments, sharing stories. Here's where your dollars went. Here's the wishes that you helped to enable. Here's where we are from, what we're able to do as an organization because of your generosity. So I do think it's constantly keeping connected back to the mission is a big part of that. And it's so important. People want to know that they've made a difference. They want to be part of something bigger. And I think making sure that you connect those dots for individual donors, for corporate partners as well, is incredibly important. Incredibly important.

Jon Clifton:
[19:04] You know, it seems to me that, you know, working at Make-A-Wish Foundation, that everybody's there for the mission because it's so incredible. Does it ever get tough? Where you're driving it with volunteers, driving it with employees. I mean, does anyone ever become almost like they've become accustomed to it or anything like that? Or how does that work from a leadership perspective?

Leslie Motter:
[19:24] Of course it's tough. I mean, it's tough when you're interacting with families that are going through really, really challenging times. And again, facing something that no child should ever have to face. It's tough to keep your own emotions in check, frankly, because you're there to be a source of joy. You're there to be uplifting. You're there because something happy and wonderful is happening. And you're a community alongside that child, alongside the parent, alongside the siblings. You're there to provide joy, but it can be incredibly difficult when you hear the stories and you see the children and what they're going through, and it just seems incredibly unfair. So I think it's really important to be able to have emotional intelligence and to be able to keep your emotions in check. And again, realize it's not about you. It's about the family that you're helping to provide the wish for. So I think that's an important component.

Jon Clifton:
[20:33] You know, we often talk about the emotional economy that oftentimes, you know, economists talk about the rational economy. And some of our research suggests that of the decisions that we make, 30% are rational, 70% are emotional. And Danny Kahneman once said that organizations are decision factories. So of course, if they are decision factories, that means there's a lot more going on on the emotional side. It seems like everything that you're describing, there's so much more of the emotional economy. Can you talk more about what it's like to lead when there's so much intensity on the emotional economy?

Leslie Motter:
[21:09] I think having empathy for what employees are feeling and volunteers are feeling and more than empathy, appreciation. Appreciation that I mentioned 20,000 volunteers, that's without all of the volunteer board members that we have, not just our national board, but our local chapters. Those individuals are there because they care. So it is all about emotion. So I think part of that is showing the appreciation to each and every one of them because we couldn't do what we do without them. So part I think for me is creating the culture of appreciation, creating the culture of trust, of camaraderie, frankly, of belonging. That's something that we talk about to be able to lift each other up. And you can do that when you've built that foundation of trust and you can be vulnerable. If you're having a hard day or you need to take a step away, having the trust that's built in order to be authentic and to share that in a vulnerable way I think really is critical.

Jon Clifton:
[22:20] You know, the impact that Make-A-Wish serves is even broader than the family's. I mean, you're inspiring communities when there's content that's on social media, in the news, wherever it is. But can you talk more about how your Connectedness brings that out so that you're creating sort of an outsized impact from even maybe kind of like the direct mission that maybe the organization was founded on?

Leslie Motter:
[22:45] Absolutely. Absolutely. And I have to tell you, until I joined the organization, I really thought it was about the child. I really thought it was about the 16,200 wishes that we granted last year was about the child. But boy, have I learned how much bigger that impact is. It is remarkable. It's not just the child. It's the sibling who many times doesn't get the same level of attention with good reason. It's about the families. It's about the parents who are absolutely exhausted going through what they're doing emotionally, physically, etc. It's beyond challenging. It's about the doctors and nurses that are alongside that journey. It's about the extended family. It's about the schools. It's about the neighbors. It really is the entire community. So it's so much more than the child. It is anybody that's involved. It's the celebrities that tell me that they are humbled that this child wished to meet them. They could have done anything. It's the humanity that it brings forward. It's the humanity and it's the Connectedness.

Jon Clifton:
[23:50] So you have Developer number five. Those with Developer can see unique talents in, you know, a number of people. But is there a way that you've figured out how to scale development so that, you know, all volunteers, that people throughout the organization, that they're getting unique developmental opportunities? I mean, I think this is one of the things that executives everywhere are saying, how do we not only make sure that we're getting the best out of everybody here, that they have the opportunity to do what they do best, but that they're also growing with their unique strengths. Have you figured out any unique ways to scale that?

Leslie Motter:
[24:26] I don't know that I have the answer in a nutshell. I think we've tried a number of things and I can talk about that. But actually before, let me just, I didn't think Developer belonged in my top five, number five. And I thought that's not right. It shouldn't be in there. When I read the description of Developer and it talks about patience. I am not a patient individual. Maybe it's the Activator or the Achiever or the Arranger components in there, but anybody that knows me would not describe me as patient at all. I wish I was. I am not. I've never been that way in my life and probably not going to ever going to be that way in my life. So I thought, well, that's not me. I'm not patient and I'm not particularly exceptional at giving praise and recognition on a really regular basis. It's something I have to think about, have to remind myself when I jump into a meeting, you know, don't just jump into the business topic, but let's take a minute and see how everybody's doing and check in and so forth.

So when I read the Developer description, I thought Gallup got this wrong. That's not me at all. I'm more Arranger, an Activator, an Achiever. But then as I really reflected and thought about the feedback that I've received over the years, one of the things that I do absolutely the best is select talent, hands down, hands down. And I think back to, I did another interview where I talked about, I think one of the reasons that I am effective as a CEO is my HR background. So really caring about culture, caring about employees, making sure there's clarity around goals, that people are incented the correct way, that we're focused on develop and learning, et cetera. I'm not traditional in necessarily the people that I select for different roles. I can see the potential and I can see the applicable skillset and what it could be. And so I'll take a chance on somebody in a position. So one of the things that I've had a lot of feedback on is selecting the right people. And it's been amazing to see so many people that when I left an organization, the successor was right there on my team to be able to succeed me or teams that function so highly when I move to a different department or that are able to step in, step in for me when needed, et cetera.

When I thought about it from a different lens, I do see how the Developer is one of my strengths. It just shows up a little bit differently than I think the patient and some of the other things that I read on the card. So that's a little bit more than you asked about Developer in particular, but I find actually situational leadership is something that I employ because depending on the situation, on the project, on the assignment, people are at different levels of readiness. And so you need to, in order to develop somebody, give them things that they haven't done before. Let them stretch. Let them try something new. So in that case, I need to be a lot more hands-on. And if it's something that somebody knows how to do and they run, I don't need to be in. I absolutely trust the team and I absolutely know they're going to do a stellar job. And they'll call me if they need. They'll reach out. They'll know I'm there for any roadblocks or anything that they need. But I think part of it is recognizing where the leaders are, given a specific project or assignment, et cetera, and being able to flex with them.

I think that's what courageous leadership is. It's doing the right things, even if they're hard. I think another example of that is giving feedback. It's not always comfortable to tell somebody something that is not positive. However, that's courageous leadership. If you didn't care, you wouldn't put yourself out there. You wouldn't be vulnerable enough to say, hey, you know, I saw this. Here's an example of maybe you could have approached this differently. And here's the impact that I saw on the other individual you were interacting with or on the team or whatever the situation is. I think that's courageous leadership when any individual puts themselves out there. And frankly, it's more courageous if you're not the leader, if you're a peer and you're doing that because you're very, very vulnerable. You're doing it with the intent of helping the other person. There's no advantage to you personally other than caring about the other person and hoping that they take it in the spirit in which it is intended.

Jon Clifton:
[28:57] So when you first became CEO, you made some moves internally. Can you talk more about how you leaned into maybe your Strategic or your Arranger in order to make those changes, and how did those work out?

Leslie Motter:
[29:09] Sure, sure. Pretty much any job I move into I make changes. I think that's part of the Activator in me as well as the Achiever and as the Arranger. But I love seeing how all the pieces can come together. I love seeing the possibilities. The Strategic comes in really handy from a business perspective. I think it's probably really irritating from a personal perspective because I always see the possibilities. So, you know, my poor kids and family and so forth, well, what about this? And what if we did that? And you thought about this and we could do that. And it's probably beyond irritating, but I can always see, what it could be and where we could go. And I'm super energized by that.

Jon Clifton:
[29:55] You know, one of the more common themes is Relator, which you have. What does it mean for a CEO to have Relator? How do you lean into that strength? Or what does it mean to you?

Leslie Motter:
[30:05] It is a critical part of who I am and how I function personally and professionally. I have a tribe, and my tribe continues to grow in different circles along the way. I have a tribe from high school, from college, from American Express colleagues, and even folks that I met last year at different fortune events. So that tribe is so important to me. I have a safe place that I can go when I need advice or, frankly, when I'm struggling, that I know people care about me as an individual, and I care about them as individuals, and we feel that support and network from each other. It took me actually probably a lot longer than it should have to realize that there's strength and vulnerability. But I've come to appreciate that having that tribe, that network, being the Relator that I am is critical for me as a human being to have a safe place to go, to be vulnerable, and to have people come alongside me and help me as well.

Jon Clifton:
[31:18] So for those tribes of people, what are the issues that you turn to them for? In addition to the vulnerability, but what is it you're asking them about or what are you asking them to think about?

Leslie Motter:
[31:28] Absolutely. I mean, it varies widely. It can be how we're leading through something that's going on in the environment, the external environment. It can be a challenge that I'm having as a parent. It can be a lot of different things. There's really nothing that I don't have folks that are in my life that I can talk to. And it's one of the things that I treasure more than anything else is having those relationships and knowing that I'm that for other people as well, that it doesn't matter what time of day or night anyone can call me. I will show up anywhere. I would do anything for my tribe, for those folks around me. I'm, you know, emergency point of contact for various friends and so forth, and they know they can count on me, and I know I can count on them, and it brings me security, and it brings me ... safety and it brings back the Connectedness because I know we are all here for each other. We'll support each other no matter what. And we'll lift each other up because we're part of something bigger.

Jon Clifton:
[32:41] You know, you are very intense because you have Activator, you have Achiever, you've, you know, talk about going go, go, go. You also have a draw to people, Relator, Developer, Empathy. But there's also a theme that you talk about, which is Intellection, something that, you know, makes you very introspective. Can you talk more about how that manifests itself as a CEO?

Leslie Motter:
[33:08] Absolutely. Absolutely. So I'm on all the time in this role. I'm in front of boards. I'm in front of stages of thousands of individuals. I'm with corporate partners. I'm with employees and so forth. So I am constantly going and on. I have back-to-back meetings every single day, et cetera. And I find that there have been numerous times where I needed to make a decision, and something just didn't feel right. And inevitably, I would say, let's wait and make this decision tomorrow. And I would then, at the end of the day, go and take a walk, take a run, take a hike, be by myself. And it all came into clarity, exactly what we should do and which direction we should go, etc.

So for me, it is really important that I get that time. It's so important to know and understand your strengths. I think that's one of the power of Gallup StrengthsFinder is being able to lean into those strengths and to be authentic to what you bring to the table. And frankly, to be able to surround yourself with people that have different strengths and to be able to appreciate those strengths. I think that is one of the components of knowing yourself and being authentic and creating a great organization is really being able to tap people that approach things differently than you do and to be able to lean on their strengths as needed.

Jon Clifton:
[34:34] Leslie, thank you for your partnership, your leadership, and for bringing so much hope to so many people around the world.

Leslie Motter:
[34:41] It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Jon.

Transcript autogenerated using AI.