How Leaders Inspire Creativity With Diane Hoskins

Jon Clifton:
[0:00] As such an influential figure in your industry in this country, is there one of your strengths that you wish you would most be remembered for?

Diane Hoskins:
[0:10] Wow, that's a great question.

Jon Clifton:
[0:14] Every space tells a story about the people inside it. At Gensler, that story is written by Diane Hoskins, who doesn't see architecture as structures, but as systems that shape human potential. Early in her career, Diane learned something that most leaders miss. Brands at the top might turn heads, but it's teams that build legacies. That insight led her to found the Gensler Research Institute, where art meets science in the pursuit of spaces that don't just look good, they make people better. Today on Leading with Strengths, Diane shares her blueprint for leading with creativity and purpose.

Diane, welcome back to Gallup.

Diane Hoskins:
[0:54] It's great to be here. Thank you, Jon.

Jon Clifton:
[0:57] Diane, you know, I think one of the biggest issues that's facing Gensler, that's facing your industry right now, is what happened after the pandemic. A lot of people want to either be hybrid or they want to work from home. Can you talk a little bit about how is that shaping the industry and what are you and Gensler doing about that particular issue?

Diane Hoskins:
[1:19] Thanks, Jon. You know, you're really pointing to such a really pivotal moment that we've all experienced. And the fact that, you know, everything kind of now is measured in the pre-COVID and post-COVID and what kind of changed during that time. And it's an amazing time for design. I think designers tend to get a little bit less excited about the work when things are status quo. And now we have this opportunity to really address the true needs that are being expressed in a much more intentional way than we've ever heard before as it relates to the workplace. So I guess we frame it as an incredible moment as a firm that has a deep-rooted belief in research and understanding the why behind the things we design and then the impact of the design that we create on people's lives. This is really a moment where we're connecting all those dots.

And very, very difficult time of a combination of a health crisis and a social crisis and then a city crisis all has come together to create this challenge in, where do we work? And should we work at home? Should we come to the office? And we've helped to dig into the root of why people want to work from home and why people want to work in the office. And there's a real complexity in that because there's a strong draw to each. As we've now started to progress past post-COVID to, you know, three years post-COVID, what is starting to emerge is a very new type of workplace that comes with the things we've learned from working at home, which is that we all need to be able to focus. And we were getting a lot of that at home. But we also know now that we all need to collaborate and that, you know, our ideas and our ability to understand how our work connects to the bigger idea comes when we're working together and in proximity with each other.

Jon Clifton:
[3:31] You know, there were huge transformations that took place, at least while you were CEO. I mean, one of them was we kind of went through this open office design. I know one of the findings from the Gensler Research Institute said, actually, we might need some quieter spaces depending on the firm. But what would you say are the biggest learnings from that institute?

Diane Hoskins:
[3:55] We started to see in our data from, I would say, in the most sort of extreme way, started in 2016, where we started to see like this decline in people feeling that their workplaces supported them. And that trend was continuing and was, again, really of concern by 2019. And the study that we published, said that, that, you know, there's this sort of, you know, market drop in workplace performance going on. This was before COVID. So, you know, you put that up against then COVID, we all go home and there's this newfound ability to focus on your work because it's quiet, and kind of came to light more from the outcry of, look, you know, don't make me go back to that office where I can't really focus and I can't get work done.

You know, CEOs and others started paying attention to what people have been saying that we had been reporting in our surveys, but wasn't quite getting the voice that we really needed to rethink the workplace, that people do want the collaboration, they do want the social part. But they also have to be able to get work done. In fact, we did a really interesting survey in the last couple of years because people were starting coming back. What is the most important reason for you to come back to work? And it was to get work done. And, you know, duh, right? Because, you know, it was, oh, social, this, that, and the other. Nope, it's to get work done. And all those other things are there too, the social, the collaboration, the learning. But the number one was really, it's the place where I'm the most able to do that.

Jon Clifton:
[5:43] If the office isn't the center of work ... meaning, you came out with a book last year, and one of the things that you wrote about is that when thinking about design, you have to think about what is at the center. So what are you thinking about? What is at the center of a new work, and how do you think about that?

Diane Hoskins:
[6:05] Well, it's about people. I mean, we're talking about maximizing people, optimizing people's performance, giving people a platform where they're going to be able to do their life's best work. And, you know, at the end of the day, I think people are now really in touch with the fact that they have choices and that those choices need to wrap around the uniqueness of who they are. But also that there's, you know, this energy that comes from being able to hear the ideas of others, connect your ideas to those, and also the social fabric and the community that you're building within the workplace.

Jon Clifton:
[6:42] So you became CEO about 20 years ago. And when you became CEO, I think Gensler's revenue was 250 million. Since then, there are publications that now say it's upwards of 1.8 billion. You also mentioned a word — Maximizer — which of course is your number two. Maximizers are extreme perfectionists. When you're thinking about scaling a business, you know, almost five times or more, how do you do it where you're making sure that every piece of the business, everyone that you're working with, is still doing things to perfection, even when it's at that scale?

Diane Hoskins:
[7:24] Great question. I think when Andy and I took on the co-CEO role, we weren't necessarily thinking about the scaling of the business, but we knew that it was going to really matter to articulate a clear vision. And it's not just about doing projects, even though, you know, obviously that's our craft, right? And it's not just about, you know, the specific clients, even though that is what it's all about. It's that broader vision of when you add that all together, what's the net result and what is that kind of enduring impact? And we worked a great deal with our colleagues, with our team, with our executive committee of sort of the inner circle, and then all of the leaders across the firm and even beyond the leadership level from the bottom up as well, just trying to come up with what is that vision that we all share about the work that we're doing. And it was to create a better world and through the power of design.

So having that vision is critical. And then it's also about creating the culture. You know, saying we want to get there is one thing, but doing it is another. And in a creative enterprise, which I think is part of what you're saying, is how do you not turn into sort of a corporate firm that turns out the same results over and over again as you get larger? And so this interesting struggle as a creative organization to stay creative, imaginative, creating unique solutions, inspiring people to come out with ideas. And that means a culture that supports people, that recognizes individuality, but also recognizes that one person's idea is great, but as we then, you know, bring other ideas in a collaborative and safe environment, that it's that inclusion that ultimately creates the best outcomes. That means that, look, as you scale, you get better. So it's really cultivating that culture that has created the growth and really continuing to sharpen our vision about what it means to be an organization that has an impact.

Jon Clifton:
[9:49] How is it that you institutionalize that sort of great work in a culture of 6,000 people? Leonardo da Vinci worked on the Mona Elisa for like 24 years. In fact, I think even though it sits in the Louvre, it still is not done. And I think it's because, you know, Maximizers, they can see the difference between a 9.999 and a 10. And so, how is it that you ensure that all the pieces of work that the firm is responsible for, where you really do institutionalize that sort of 10 out of 10 across the entire organization?

Diane Hoskins:
[10:24] Well, I guess I would say that you inspire everyone's inner Maximizer. Because, you know, you're not going to get great design, great creativity by criticizing people. The way that we really are within our culture is how do we help people, you know, aspire to the next and the next and opening doors for them to grow their capabilities, to inspire them toward moving, again, into their greatest strengths. Again, I would say being a learning organization, being an organization that really believes in development of our people, we invest in talent development, we invest in the kinds of meetings where we're bringing people together from all over the world. It's how we all inspire each other.

Early on, I asked everyone if they wouldn't mind coming in on a Saturday and getting together and talking about the future and what we were going to do and all of that. And I was new, so everybody came. And I gave them an assignment prior to that Saturday meeting. I said, come with a picture of a project that you admire. It doesn't have to be one you worked on. It doesn't even have to be one that the firm had worked on. It could be something from, you know, past history or something, but just a project that you admire, that you think is great. And so everyone came in with these, you know, beautiful images of projects. We put them up all around the room. And, you know, people presented their project one by one, and we went around the room, and it was really inspiring and interesting. And I basically said, guys, would it be exciting if we had done all of these projects together? This was our work on the walls. And it just became kind of this, this is what we're going to do. And I believe we can do it.

Jon Clifton:
[12:30] You know, you mentioned something, which is co-CEOs, and you and Andy have been working together a very long time. You guys wrote a book together. Now you're co-chairs. But I'm just going to say an instinct that I think a lot of people have when they read it in the news and they'll hear that a company is going to have co-CEOs, and I think all of them go, oh, that's not going to work. But you guys made it work. Why?

Diane Hoskins:
[12:55] You know, it's interesting. It's almost without the CliftonStrengths concept, it really is the concept. It's sort of the proof of concept. We believe very strongly in collaborative leadership within Gensler, but we also believe that it's about the addition of the strengths of each person, not necessarily trying to be the same person, getting two people who are just alike and making them partners. It's about that diversity of capabilities, of viewpoints, of focus. And really, that's what Andy and I bring to the table.

We're very, very different people, very different experiences. But at the same time, we have shared values that are spot on, and we could finish each other's sentence when it comes to our values and the culture of our firm. But we have, again, just a range of capabilities that is incredibly powerful when you bring it all together. And where together we play on each other a ton. I mean, it's just kind of remarkable the collaborative energy of our ideation, our problem-solving, kind of supercharges when we're working on something together. You know, we respect each other, and I have the utmost admiration for Andy and, you know, what he had achieved before we became co-CEOs. And we both had, you know, come to that role with having done a lot already. So when it came to being partners, it was about the firm. You know, it wasn't about me or him kind of making our mark. It was really about how do we come together? How do we support our firm in new ways that, again, just unleashes the potential?

Jon Clifton:
[14:48] When there's a disagreement, how do you guys settle it? Are there disagreements? I mean, there must be. And is it, do you just talk it out for a while or what's it look like?

Diane Hoskins:
[14:57] Yeah, you know, I think the point of disagreement, I think always is about something we're trying to solve for. So it's not a disagreement around, you know, kind of how we relate to each other, but more about what should be our plan of action. Rarely about what's the vision. It's usually more in the how-to rather than the what. And, you know, we often play out a number of possibilities. And so we'll, you know, again, if there's, as Andy would say, if Diane really felt passionate about it, we'd just go with her idea. Or if I felt really passionate about it, we'd go with my idea. And that is a little bit of it, too, where, you know, it's sort of this trust. Like, OK, you seem to really have a strong sense that this is the right path. Let's do it. Let's go for it. And, you know, there's that kind of give and take. And then there's also kind of an analytical way of just kind of, OK, what's the right answer from a let's just evaluate. And we both have the patience and the rigor to evaluate and then say, OK, that's the right answer.

Jon Clifton:
[16:04] Was there ever a time earlier in your career where, so you lean into your Learner, you listen to everything it is that a client is saying to you, then your Maximizer designs something. You go, this is perfect, but you come back and they go, no, actually, it was a total miss. Did anything like that ever happen? And if so, what was the learning from it? And how did you adjust later on?

Diane Hoskins:
[16:26] The deeper you can go with your client and hear them, really hear them, the more the design will anticipate and reflect and frankly resonate with that client in ways you could never imagine, that it really reflects the things that they talked about or the things that came out of, you know, the working sessions where the important issues got put on the table. But the kinds of things that you're able to do when you kind of put aside what you would like the project to be and really listen to what your client is looking to do, what are their aspirations, and how that then sort of inspires the team to reach toward things that even go beyond what we could have thought that that project was going to be.

Jon Clifton:
[17:19] So with Ideation in your top five, AI would be a remarkable tool, I would assume, for somebody with Ideation because it just allows for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands more ideas. But with AI coming into your industry, how do you make sure that certain designs, certain elements of thinking remain distinctively human?

Diane Hoskins:
[17:41] Yeah. Look, I think that's a great question. As we look at projects in architecture and design, I would say out of 100% of the time that you work on the project from the beginning to it being built, that only 10% to 20% might be spent on creating the idea. And all the rest of the time is spent on documenting what needs to go together to make that a reality and then the actual fabrication and construction and assembly itself. Through AI and advanced technologies, we believe that we can recapture much more of that time into the creating of the idea, not just the ideation, but the deep design that needs to go into kind of what that place is. What is the experience it's going to create? How do we simulate? How do we use predictive analytics to really understand what that space is going to be? And using AI and other technologies to shorten the amount of time that's needed for the documentation of that idea.

And again, when we talk about the creativity, the creativity is going to go even deeper into the assembly and even thinking about, as we talk about, the disassembly of parts. And as we look at the circular economy, how do we think about what we're building and what it might become 50 years from now. Do we disassemble it and then use it in another place? Well, that means we need to track those materials. We need to track the elements that we use in building our buildings and in our spaces. And that's part of what will be possible as we elevate the use of AI and advanced technologies. So that's really exciting. That's exciting for designers and, you know, again, architects that what we're going to be able to do and impact has a much, much longer view. And that all of our goals of sustainability and reducing carbon are going to become a reality as we're able to track the materials that we use in the assembly of our projects.

Jon Clifton:
[20:04] You mentioned thinking 50 years into the future. When you're doing designs for any type of building, how far in the future are you thinking about the relevance of what it is that you're architecting?

Diane Hoskins:
[20:17] I'll admit that when we design, often we're thinking about that move-in day, right? We're thinking about, you know, when people enter that building, what they're going to see, what they're going to feel, maybe a year or two from that. But often we haven't necessarily thought about 10 years from then, 20 years from then, 50, 100, 200, 500. We need to think about materials in a different way, that they're not just for the short term. And it's very exciting right now in design and architecture that our horizon has gotten much bigger. It's always been there, but we haven't really thought about it or thought about that view of what else could that building be?

You know, today, because of this hybrid work and the fact that we have office buildings that are not being used to their capacity and may not ever be used. What other use could that building have? And work that we did in our research institute has really helped us to create an algorithm to study buildings. And we've studied over 2,000 buildings across the U.S. and Canada to help owners understand very, very quickly, could this building be, you know, an apartment building or a condo building, and then how we would do that. And about 25% of those buildings we're finding could be used as an apartment building. And we're seeing a lot of buildings now getting transitioned from an office building that was empty to a residential building. And we need more apartments and residences in most of our cities because there's a housing shortage. So, well, what if we were thinking at the beginning this might need to be something else in the future? It starts to change how you think about the design.

Jon Clifton:
[22:09] Can you say more about that? Because, of course, in your book, you've talked about not just future-proofing buildings, but also future-proofing cities. And there's actually examples where you and Gensler have gone in and actually rethought of corporate office spaces, thought of them as residential areas that have really transformed cities. Can you say more about that? And also, how can we be better at future-proofing cities?

Diane Hoskins:
[22:34] Well, absolutely. And that really is, you know, again, when we talk about the challenges in certain places are now allowing us to think about new ways of designing. And, you know, again, inspiring the solutions to those problems, not as solving a problem, but the opportunity that we have. And that's one of the challenges is in many of our cities, there was kind of a belief, and we see it, you know, even right here in our hometown, where you have kind of the residential areas, then you have the commercial areas, and you have, you know, and in some cities, industrial areas, and these things don't overlap. And what we've learned is that the vibrant cities that we all love have a mix of uses. And so when we talk about designing cities, having that kind of mix of uses so that the uses can flex over time as people change, as the demands change, as the economy changes, and building that kind of flexibility in is part of that future-proofing idea.

Jon Clifton:
[23:44] I want to ask you something because with Connectedness, you are uniquely positioned to, I think, answer this or at least help the world and solve it, which is we've seen here in the United States when we ask employees and say to them do they feel connected to the mission and purpose of the organization in which they work? It's in a pretty rapid decline. What do we do about that?

Diane Hoskins:
[24:07] Yeah, I guess it's understandable because we've gone through a crisis, right? You know, we don't probably realize, you know, how wrenching all of this was and that there's kind of a lasting effect of the fear and the kind of, you know, drama of the changes and then the sort of demands of changing again and so on. What we've done is to really double down on communication and our culture and our values and our belief in individuals, really making sure that people feel that we're all here together, we believe in you, and we're going to support you and invest in you. And I really feel like people are looking for trust and people that they can trust, organizations they can trust. And so you have to be a little bit more transparent about your confidence in others in a real way. And, you know, again, that has to be genuine. And that's been part of who we are, you know, since our founder, Art Gensler. So it's, you know, again, we feel like those have been kind of our secret sauce in getting through this really difficult time during and sort of post-COVID as well.

Jon Clifton:
[25:26] Diane, I also want to ask you questions about your strengths specifically. You know, one of course we haven't talked about yet is Self-Assurance, which is one that's near and dear to my heart. And of course, you've had such a long career. And so, you know, as people go about their careers, they start to get far more in touch with their strengths. But when you look at yours, out of your top five or even your top 10, for example, which of them would you say brings you the most joy?

Diane Hoskins:
[25:51] The Connectedness strength is kind of my core. I guess when I finally really understood, and it was somewhat innate in some respects about the connection of people and the places that they're in. But that connection gives me a huge sense of pride in what I do and what architects in general are all about, that we're serving people. And that sort of connection and even, I think, more now thinking that places last a long time. It can be a bit daunting to think about, but it also is very inspiring to think that generations of people are going to use this city or be in this building or even take that idea and build on it further into something else. I would say I also find then the connection back into sort of my beliefs and, you know, kind of more into the person that I want to think that I am.

Jon Clifton:
[27:04] We often talk about one of the most important things that people want in leaders, which is they want hope. How do you lean into your Connectedness or is it another strength to inspire those around you?

Diane Hoskins:
[27:15] Hope is such a powerful emotion and a powerful sensibility, and hope is about helping people see that there is a better place and a confidence in the people that you're speaking, you know, your team and just looking forward to where we're headed.

Jon Clifton:
[27:42] Gensler's now in its 60s. You have Strategic. You have Learner. So, you know, I know that you are an incredible infovore, you know, getting all kinds of information, but what does an executive do to future-proof an organization?

Diane Hoskins:
[27:56] We've always believed in how are we enabling, equipping, and empowering the next generation. We're always talking about the next generation in our firm. It was something that Art Gensler was very focused on when he was grooming and growing all of us. It's something we focused on as we've groomed and grown our next generation of leaders. We believe very strongly in investing in, you know, our intern programs, in our what we call our next gen program, which is, you know, kind of really early career professionals within our organization.

It's that investment in the growth of others and really being mindful of all the generations to come. Also giving them a voice and an opportunity to be part of the firm in meaningful ways. And we encourage that. We encourage research. We give research grants to anyone who's interested in doing research across the firm. In January, we send out a request for proposals for research ideas, and we evaluate them. And, you know, we sometimes combine teams if they're looking at doing the same things, then give grants. And we support those individuals with peer reviews and a team of people who are expert in different methods to be able to produce serious research on topics that our folks are interested in. But that's how you grow people. That's how you grow people in their own ideas and how through those ideas they can become an incredibly successful professionals. So, I guess that whole idea of longevity really comes from almost looking the other way and investing in the future generations of the firm.

Jon Clifton:
[29:47] If somebody that was young that was at university and discovered that they had Self-Assurance in their top five, what advice would you have for them?

Diane Hoskins:
[30:01] I know where you're going. No, but, you know, I think you got to like dial it down sometimes and be ready.

Jon Clifton:
[30:07] Is that advice for me?

Diane Hoskins:
[30:08] No, no. Well, maybe. But, you know, I think you have to really listen. I think you're a great listener, Jon. So I don't think those things are, necessarily one or the other. I think we learn over time. It's like when you're young, you kind of see yourself in a very, it's that foggy mirror. And as you get more and more experienced, you start to see more clearly who you are and you're able to respect who you are more and feel comfortable. When you're dialing one thing up or down, you know, they're all there. And it's up to you. And that's that maturity thing, right? Which the maturity gives you the ability to comfortably be who you need to be in that moment.

Jon Clifton:
[31:05] As you look through the entire list, we've talked about a number of strengths, even in a meeting we were in previously, but is there one that you would say that you have strengths envy for?

Diane Hoskins:
[31:18] You know, I guess, no. You know, and that maybe goes back into that Self-Assurance. What is that, number six? You know, I'm one of five children, and I grew up with an incredible mom who, for better or for worse, convinced every one of us that, you know, we were just this amazing package of specialness. I guess I believed her. So I've, and each of us is very different. And she never said, you know, oh, you should be more like this one, or you should be more like your brother, or you should be more like your sister. She never did that. Never, never compared us with each other, never asked us to be more like one of the others, and always encouraged kind of a uniqueness in each of us. And so I guess I look at and I think about as, wow, that is great. You know, that's my specialness, or that's how I've been able to find the footing to build a career. You know, that's who I am.

Jon Clifton:
[32:28] We know which of my strengths annoys others. But when you look at yours, when you look through your career, is there one that you would say that annoys others of your top five?

Diane Hoskins:
[32:40] You know, I think it's a combination of maybe it's the Ideation and the strategy combination. And not because it annoys, but I just feel, you know, a huge energy in Ideation and strategy. And it can probably, you know, fill the room a little too much sometimes.

Jon Clifton:
[33:03] And what does that look like, though? Like it's Strategic, for example. How would that fill the room too much?

Diane Hoskins:
[33:11] Well, you know, it's, again, in a collaborative environment, you know, it needs to kind of encompass all. I feel like, you know, sometimes I can take what I'm hearing and find that turn to get to the strategy. And it might have jumped too many steps. And so how do you then find the connection back into what that other idea was? And, you know, when you throw that Ideation in, it can really continue to evolve and it may not be the time to evolve yet. It may be the time to really kind of, you know, let that strategy get a little bit deeper.

Jon Clifton:
[33:54] But can you say more about that? Because you use very specific words, which are skip a few steps. And there are a lot of people with Strategic that use exactly those words. And it takes time sometimes for emerging leaders to realize that maybe they have skipped a few things. And how did you first recognize that that was an issue? And how'd you get through it?

Diane Hoskins:
[34:18] Design kind of forces you in this model because we start with what we say is the fat pen, right? What the big idea is. And then, and I've just recently learned this word backcasting, which is then to find the path to get to that. And our process really is that. We come with big idea and then we have to actually get down to the details. You need others to really kind of move this into action and giving them the space and time to bring their ideas to the table and maybe even adjust some of that thinking from up here as it moves into that implementation. So it is a dance within a large organization. And how you strategize, and again, as someone who likes to go fast, that takes discipline to think about how all the pieces connect.

Jon Clifton:
[35:15] As such an influential figure in your industry in this country, is there one of your strengths that you wish you would most be remembered for?

Diane Hoskins:
[35:25] Wow, that's a great question. You know, there's, man, that's really hard. I think that's very hard. Look, I really am proud of my work at Gensler. I'm proud of being able to help grow a global brand that stands on the shoulders of Art Gensler and his vision from 1965. Without changing the nature of the organization or making it feel different than the organization that Art built. I'm really proud of that because, as you said at the beginning, sometimes when you're scaling or when it's larger, it just loses touch with what the organization was all about from its foundation. Both Andy and I are really proud that there's this continuity of our values and our beliefs and our, you know, guiding principles that we made sure we codified and really brought to the surface. All of that was kind of like in the ether when we came up in the firm and we're like, no, we got to make this like the building blocks that everybody understands so that we are the firm that we always were and that we want to be in the future.

Jon Clifton:
[36:43] Diane, thank you for being such a good friend to Gallup. Thank you for sharing your thinking with us, and thanks for being here today.

Diane Hoskins:
[36:49] Thanks, Jon. It's been a pleasure.

Transcript autogenerated using AI.