- Where does the phrase "Called to Coach" come from?
- What are 5 attributes that can help you determine whether you're called to do something?
- How can you keep a laser focus on finding and pursuing your life calling?
"I think people have a calling. I think people, just like people have inherent talents, I think people have a calling in life. And that calling in life is something fundamental for who they are." Gallup's Dean Jones knows a thing or two about a life calling -- including a calling to coach others. How can you determine your life calling, and whether that includes coaching? And how can you keep focusing on that calling through difficult times and changing life circumstances? Join us for a webcast that digs down to the roots of what a life calling is -- including what it means to be "Called to Coach."
[From the chat] "Strengths makes everything I do click. I become comfortable in my own skin." ... I really think ... that's what it feels like to have a calling.Dean Jones, 7:49
Your values really are eternal; they don't live in time and space.Dean Jones, 15:16
In my experience, particularly with strengths ... you kind of start out teaching and ended up coaching, and ... the great teaching kind of precedes the great coaching.Dean Jones, 40:15
Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on July 15, 2022.
Meet Our Guest on This Episode
Jim Collison 0:18
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat. There's, there's a link right above me on our live page that'll take you to YouTube. Sign into the chat room; we'll be taking your questions live. If you're listening after the fact, we would always love your questions that way as well -- send us an email: firstname.lastname@example.org. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app or right there, over there on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Dean Jones is our host today. Dean is the Global Talent Development Architect and Senior Learning Expert for Gallup as well as the chair of Gallup's Diversity Council. And Dean, great to have you back on Called to Coach. Welcome back!
Dean Jones 1:06
It's been a while. I'm happy to be here.
Jim Collison 1:08
We are always glad to have you and, especially this time, to have you back. Give us, today, we, we're going to spend a little bit of time talking about Are you called to coach? It's a special topic for me because, of course, July also celebrates the 9-year anniversary of the very first podcast Called to Coach that we did -- kind of crazy, we've been doing this for 9 years. Right?
Dean Jones 1:31
It's nuts. It's nuts. It's, it's amazing that it's been that long since we started this thing. Yeah, I thought, you know, we were talking, and I was thinking about what to cover today and, and what conversation to have. And it felt like a great moment, given the, given the anniversary, it felt like a great moment to go, kind of go back to the beginning and talk about, What does it mean to be called to coach? And what is it to have that kind of calling, and what does that mean for you? So I thought today we'd just kind of talk a little bit about that and, and kind of dive into that subject.
The Origin of "Called to Coach"
Jim Collison 2:07
That's awesome. get us started from that. I mean, that question, How did, how did we come up with that term "Called to Coach"?
Dean Jones 2:15
Yeah. So it started, actually, I, some of you maybe remember Paul Allen. Paul worked at Gallup for a period of time, Paul is the, was one of the founders of ancestry.com. And at that time, we were kind of kicking off our e-commerce business, and we were looking at all the things we needed to do to be able to support strengths in the world. And at that time, Paul, one of the things Paul did when he first joined Gallup was he traveled around the country, and he interviewed a lot of strengths coaches around the country, and really looked at what was the experience of being a strengths coach? What was fulfilling for people around that? And this was right at the very beginning, right.
Dean Jones 2:53
So it's as we were just starting to offer classes; as we were just starting to offer strengths really online for people to be able to purchase. And the thing, when he came back, you know, he started to kind of debrief with a bunch of us and said, the thing that struck him the most about coaches, and particularly about strengths coaches, is they, they all felt like they had a calling -- that it wasn't just, Hey, this is my job that I do or, you know, I'm good at this. It all felt like, for them, it felt like a calling -- that they had really a calling to coach. And, and so that's, that's where we ended up with the title of the podcast, right? Called to Coach, right. And, but more, even more than that, it's where we started to, to realize that as we worked with coaches, that part of working with coaches was really, really understanding, respecting, supporting the kind of sense of mission that comes with strengths coaching for people.
The Meaning of a "Calling"
Jim Collison 3:52
Dean, when we think of that term "calling," I think it can mean different things for different people, and maybe even in our context that way. Talk a little bit about that.
Dean Jones 4:02
Yeah, I think it's pretty simple. You know, I'm always the guy when I, when I start out, when I, I always want to understand, OK, well what does it mean, right? And I was like, I use the Googler a little bit to, to go and like, kind of look up. The definition of "calling," if you look at the dictionary definition, is "a strong urge toward a particular way of life or a career." You know, again, "a strong urge toward a particular way of life or a career." And it's often used in a religious context, right? So for most, for most people, they, you're accustomed to hearing this, this notion of calling in a religious context, as in God's calling me to this or God's calling me into ministry or whatever it is, right?
Dean Jones 4:42
We talk about it in a secular context rather than a spiritual context, although I would tell you that I think, for a lot of the people we know, I, you know, Jo Ann Miller was a coach at Gallup, who was a nun, is a nun. And so we know a lot of people in the faith, in faith-based communities that use strengths. And so it is both a secular calling as well as a spiritual one. But we think about it more of in a kind of a secular context, where we think about, What is, what is it that you're meant to do? What is it that you find yourself being meant to do? And, you know, for a lot of us that do strengths coaching, there's that sense, it's like, Wow, this is what I'm designed for or this is what I'm meant to do. And so I thought we talk a little bit today, if it's OK, Jim, I thought we'd talk a little bit about, How do you know if coaching -- or really, if anything -- is a calling for you? How do you, how do you start to find your calling? And so I wanted to kind of talk about some of the attributes of that, that just, just from my experience working with people, What are the attributes around that? And how do you start to get a sense of that? Go ahead.
Jim Collison 5:51
Dean, let me, let, and let me just say as, before you dive into that, it's, the term -- it was interesting -- the term "Called to Coach" became, even internally here at Gallup, kind of a title for a variety of things. And we tried to, we tried to kind of put that on "Called to Manage" or "Called to Lead" or, like, and it never really worked. It never really, those terms never really, it didn't stick like "Called to Coach" did. It seemed like that term was so made for, in a lot of ways, custom-made for us and what we did and the way we decided to do this with media and, and YouTube and the podcasts and the community. We just couldn't replicate that same idea. And so I really, I have felt it's really, really this calling to coach is really tied to our coaches community. And I, it's just, we tried, we tried to make it other things, and it just wouldn't; it just would never stick. Right. But it's stuck, it's stuck so well. So I'm really glad you're talking about this today, because I think it brings us back to some of these original ideas we had in the very beginning. So let's talk a little bit about that.
Dean Jones 7:01
Yeah. And, Jim, I think just to your point, I think, when we tried to use that branding with other groups, it's because it wasn't authentic for those groups, right? You know, that those groups didn't have the same sense of calling around the work that they were doing. So anyway, so -- I'm sorry, I just looked at the chat -- Brad said in the chat, "Called to manage -- not quite the same thing," right. And so, yes, exactly. So it is, it is that sense of, and I think this is really useful. You know, Jim, when you and I were talking about this, this session before the, before we started here today. I'm going to go through some attributes, I think, of how to know if something's your calling, right? How to know if it if it really goes clunk for you. Amy Frederick said this brilliant thing in chat here today, "Strengths makes everything I do click. I become comfortable in my own skin." And Amy, I really think that that's, that's that sense, that's what it feels like to have a calling, right? It's like, oh, yeah, this is what I'm, this is what I'm, I'm ready to go for. Right. This is what I'm designed for. This is really what I'm called to do.
Determining What Your Calling Is: 5 Attributes
Dean Jones 8:07
So I'm going to, I'm going to go through this and, and, and I think for some of you, you'll use this, depending on where you are, you'll use this to be able to, one, determine if being a coach or a strengths coach is really what you're called to do. For some of you who have been doing this for a while, it just may validate your sense of your calling. I hope that it's also something that you'll use with people you coach. Right. So for those of you that are strengths coaches, I really hope this is something you'll use with them. Because it, I think it helps people to be able to figure out, What am I, what am I designed for? Really, what am I supposed to be doing?
Attribute 1: Does It Align With My Talents?
Dean Jones 8:42
So 5 attributes, I'm gonna go through each one of them just a little bit, just because I think it'll be, it'll be useful. The first one is, and maybe obviously, is that if it's going to be your calling, it's got to align with your talents. It's got to be something that, when you look at your talent themes, when you look at your strengths, that calling should align with those talents. The place I always like to start is the 5 Clues to Talent that Don Clifton had. I think that's a great place to start. And I think, you know, in my work over the last almost 17 years with strengths, in my work with strengths, one of the places I always get grounded is in those 5 Clues to Talent. If you're not familiar with them, like I'm going to do a plug here, but there's, the old book that was written by Don Clifton with Paula Nelson, Soar With Your Strengths is a great place, it was really the, one of the first places this was published, those 5 Clues to Talent.
Dean Jones 9:40
When Don was doing his research, and, you know, as a researcher, he was really looking at, How do I know if I've got a talent in a particular area? How do I, and really, as a researcher, I think he was trying to build the criteria for How do I identify the presence of talent in a particular area? And he came up with 5 Clues to Talent. Jim just put them in the chat, which I think is perfect. The first is, is Rapid Learning. Is it something where I pick it up quickly in that particular area? The second is, when I do it is there Deep Satisfaction, that huge sense of fulfillment, right? The third is, is, is it something where there's Glimpses of Excellence? Like right away, I start doing it, and all of a sudden, we can see the brilliance, right. The fourth is Flow, which is, you kind of get in that, that, that mindset, that, that mindset of Flow. I'm looking at my bookshelf for the, for the book on Flow. But you get in that sense where there's this timelessness. You can kind of lose yourself in it. And the, and the fifth is Yearnings -- that you just have this kind of yearning to do it. I'm going to talk about that more in a minute. But you have this, you're pulled into doing it.
Dean Jones 10:48
So I think that, first is, when you're kind of you're trying to decide, Hey, do I have a calling in this area? It's, first is, does it align with my talent, and particularly, Can I see it's an area where I seem to be learning rapidly in that area? It seems to be an area where, gosh, it's deeply satisfying. I was, you know, teaching is one of these things that I know I'm called to do. And I always have this incredible sense of deep satisfaction every time I teach. There's just like, it's like, Oh, man, this is what I was designed for. You get those glimpses of excellence. You can see, Wow, I'm good at this.
Dean Jones 11:25
And the other, the other, the other thing, and I often use this when I'm coaching people is, is, is one way to know, Do I have talent this area or is it something I'm called to? Is, Do people tell you, "Wow, that was great!" Do you get that kind of feedback? Like, "Wow, you should do more of that!" Or, "Wow, it's really great when you do that!" You know, when you start to hear that kind of stuff you got, you got a sense like that's, that's talent, right? Is there that sense of flow? And also, are you pulled to do it? Right? I always think part of that, gauging that alignment is that you can see yourself doing it. That sounds like a weird thing to say. But, you know, a lot of us imagine ourselves in different situations. But like, in all practicality, in all reality, you can see, like, yeah, that's something I love doing; I can see myself doing it on a regular basis.
Dean Jones 12:16
And you start to also be clear about, as you use your talent in that area, what knowledge, skills and experiences you'd have to add in to your talent in order to have a strength in the area. So as you're thinking about, Hey, should I be a coach? Am I really called to coach? One is really looking at, Does it align with the talent that I've got? Right? Do I, do I have that sense that it's really aligned there? Can I see myself doing it? And can I start to see the kind of knowledge I'd need to have to be successful in this area? Can I see the skills I'd have to develop, the experiences I'd need to have to really have, to really be world-class in that particular area. So that's really the first one -- aligns with your talent. Jim, anything for you on that one?
Jim Collison 13:00
Yeah, you know, it's been, as you talk about that, 9 years we've been doing this. And so for me, you know, I came here, I started 15 years ago as an IT manager, and that Flow wasn't as good. And this has been great, right? And so all those things match. I mean, it's, for me, it's been an exercise my, you know, my time here in what I'm doing is a perfect example of exactly what you're talking about. Right? And I'm, by the way, I don't think I'm called to be a coach; I am an interviewer. I am a facilitator. I am an emcee. That's what I do. That's my thing. I work with the coaches, and many of them are surprised that I say that. But my role as a facilitator, as a community manager is so much more different than coaching in a lot of ways. And so I bounce up, I bounce against that all the time. So it's great validation, Dean, as I think about this, even in my role here over the last 9 years.
Attribute 2: Is It Consistent With My Values?
Dean Jones 13:53
Yeah, that's really beautiful. And, and for those of you who are joining us live, I'm interested, I know, I can see some of this happening in the chat already. But it's great to kind of map those things on for yourself, right? Whether you're live or if you're listening to this podcast, but really listening and saying, Gosh, how does it align with my talents? Great, it's great to ask yourself that question, to be able to really look at that. The second one is, Is it consistent with your values? And I dug out like, gosh, it was like 2 years ago, 3 years ago, that we did a podcast on strengths and values, so, that we did one that was specifically around values. One of the things I said and one of the definitions I use for values is, values are one's judgment of what's important in life, one's judgment of what's important to life.
Dean Jones 14:41
And really fundamentally, I think all of us -- and particularly when you work with people; when your job is really developing people or working with people -- I think fundamentally, people all should get in touch with what their values are. Fundamentally, what are those core values for you? What are the things that are most important to you, where are you grounded? One of the things I always say about values is that values, sometimes people say, Well, my, I value my family, right, or I value the project I'm working on right now, right? And your values are really beneath all that. Your values really are eternal; they don't live in time and space, right? Your values are those things that are fundamental for you, that, that are underneath all of that.
Dean Jones 15:26
And part of the, part of the usefulness or the value of knowing what your values are is it gives you a sense of who you are fundamentally. What those core values you have, and that in, when you, when you operate in conjunction with those values, it, there's a fundamental kind of alignment that you have. There's a fundamental authenticity that you have, that you're, you're operating consistent with what your values are and expressing those values in the work that you do. Right. So that's a, that's a, that's a really powerful piece. How do you know if something's a calling is because you can see the expression of your values in it. It's a way of being, being able to express your values, and it honors the expression of those values. Jim.
Jim Collison 16:14
Dean, we did that session on values, but for folks maybe here, could you give a one, like if, say, I'm struggle, like how, I'm struggling to think through, like, what do I value? What, how, you know, what are those? We have some values cards, and some things you can do, but practically speaking, how, how do you advise people on that, if they're thinking through, like, what is it that I really do value?
Dean Jones 16:36
Yeah, one of the things I always tell people, one of the, one of the sort of time-honored ways are, are, or the exercises to start to find your values are, it's called the "5 Whys"; it's root cause analysis, is basically what it is. Or sometimes, people call it the "5 Why Analysis," where you just ask yourself, Why do I value that, right? So you start with something that seems important to you, right? And then you say, you know, like, OK, well, you know, my family's important to me. And, and, and you ask yourself, Well, why do I value that? Why do I value that, right? Answer that question. And then keep answering well, with, whatever the answer that question is, well, Why is it that I value that? And you keep asking that question to start to drill down into, fundamentally, what happens is you sort of hit bedrock there, you know. You hit something that at its fundamental level is really important to you. Right?
Dean Jones 17:36
It's like, I have a good friend in California who was one of the first people that I ever really had deep conversations about values with. He was a consultant at the time. He's a lawyer; he was a consultant at the time, and he was doing a lot of work with his clients around values. And fundamentally, he, one of his core values in life is love, and expressing love and facilitating the expression of love, right? And it really became a hallmark of, at the time, his law practice and now the work that he does. And so I think it's, for all of us, we've got to kind of figure out, What are those kind of core values that are at the, at the heart of really who we are? And so that, so that, how you know something's your calling is, you can see your values being expressed there.
Dean Jones 18:22
For me, you know, one of the things -- and I've shared this before -- but for me, really what my whole life is about is empowering people to fulfill on their most important challenges, their most important commitments. And so really, I've spent my life really in the area of learning development. Really, I'm in the empowerment business is really, am I empowering and equipping people to be able to do that? Right. And so that's why my work with strengths, my work as a coach, my work as a teacher, my work leading learning at Gallup is all sort of an expression of that.
Jim Collison 18:56
I love it. I think I've really worked, I think that's been a work in progress for me. And is that, do you think folks have a good grasp on that generally, or, for many of us, are we always kind of working through or discovering those values, you know, in the things that we really hold close to? What do you think?
Dean Jones 19:18
Here's the thing. I, you know, the thing I think is hard about this is, unlike, unlike identifying your talents, identifying your values is a little squishier. You know, it's a little squishier. At the end of the day, only you are the one can say, These are fundamentally my values, right? And how you, oftentimes, where they feel, it feels like they change for people is people are in the process of figuring out, Fundamentally, what do I value? And so they get something and it's like, well, I thought I valued this, but really underneath it, what I value is, you know, is that -- right? So there's something that's underneath it that they really haven't gotten to. And so it's really that process, and I think, you know, it's part of the process of self-awareness, where you really start to learn more about who you are. It's really a sense of figuring out, figuring out, like, really, what am I, what am I about?
Jim Collison 20:14
Yeah, I think your drill-down concept is one I'm going to hold on to as I think, because maybe those what I think have been shifting values is actually me just punching through a, an item and realizing, Oh, that value is actually deeper than just this, whatever it is; it's actually farther down or deeper in the process. And it gives me some new insight into kind of who I am as a person. It may feel like my values are shifting; they may just be getting deeper, or at least the understanding of them getting deeper.
Dean Jones 20:45
Yeah, that's right. That's right. And I think it's, it's, one of the things I encourage people to do is go back and listen to that podcast. Maybe one of those we can do is, is we'll reference that in what we've got. But, and there's lots of people that do great work around values. So I will tell you, there's, there's lots of good work around that.
Attribute 3: Does It Contribute to Others?
Dean Jones 21:02
But I think that's, it's kind of hard to be able to say at the core, really, if you're, if you're in a conversation around what is my calling, the first thing is, is, Does it align with my talent? And Is it consistent with my values? Those are the first kind of two, right. I think the third thing around mapping, around determining if something is your calling is, Does it contribute to others? Is it something that's a contribution? Fundamentally, if it's your calling, you know, the, sort of the highest expression of all this, I would assert, I would say, is, that, is the contribution that we're going to make in life, the difference we're going to make for others. That at our highest expression, is that we're productive. Right? And I would, I don't have evidence for this.
Dean Jones 21:51
But I would tell you that, that I firmly believe that a calling is never destructive; it's always productive. You know, I don't think we're called to blow things up. You know, I think we're called to be productive in some way. And even if your job is blowing things up, I think, you know, it's in service of something that you're building. So I think part of figuring out your calling is figuring out what your contribution is. Now, will your talents give you some access to that? Absolutely. Will your values give you some access to that? Absolutely. But it's also getting clear, What is the thing I want to contribute with my life? What is the thing? What is the difference that I want to make? How do I want to be productive? How do I want to be a contribution? And I think for all of us that, again, I think that's the highest expression of who we are, is what is the difference we're going to leave on the planet?
Dean Jones 22:45
We all have a, a life that has a beginning, a middle and an end. And the end always comes quicker than we think it's going to come. And part of figuring out your, figuring out who you are in the world and figuring out your life is figuring out, What difference do I want to make? And so part of sorting out your calling is to be able to say, Is this what I want to contribute? Is this the difference I want to make? Can I see myself making my difference, that difference? And in some ways, it becomes what your life becomes in service of. That your life, instead of being in service of your wants or your needs, your life becomes in service of the contribution that you are.
Dean Jones 23:26
And so that's really the three thing -- the third thing, excuse me, to, to kind of inquire about, if you're looking at your calling is, What do I want to contribute? Or How am I going to contribute to others? OK.
Attribute 4: Does It Make a Unique Difference?
Dean Jones 23:39
The fourth thing is, and I think this is a, this is a real interesting one is, it should be something that you have a unique insight into. It should be something that, when you, that it's a difference, but it's not necessarily a difference that everyone would make. It's the difference that you're uniquely positioned to make. It's the difference that where you have a unique insight or you have an unique contribution that will, that will contribute meaningfully in that area. I always think that a calling, I always think that a calling is really is something, you know, I'm going to use an analogy in the, and this analogy has been politicized, like so many things in our, in our world these days. Right. But a calling oftentimes is like a dog whistle. You know, a dog whistle with a, you know, with dogs, they have this whistles. It's a high-pitched whistle that only the dog can hear; humans can't hear it because it's such a high frequency. The dog can hear it but, and the dog is like, Oh yeah, this is it. Right?
Dean Jones 24:40
I think that often your calling is like that in life is it's like a dog whistle. It's something that you see or hear; a difference that you see could be made. Something's missing that you could contribute. Something, something's available that other people don't see. I think that's where people, by the way, get stopped in their relationship with their calling is they say, they see something and they say, "Wow, If only that were available, wow, the world would be different." Or "If only that could be contributed, man, everything would change," right? And then they look around, and there's no agreement around them for that thing. Nobody -- it's kind of like, it's like, "Do you see how good that would be?" And everybody around is like, "No, I don't, I'd never really even thought about that." Right. "But, but do you see that that's missing?" "No, I didn't really even see that was missing." And people get stumped. Right?
Dean Jones 25:34
It's like, it's like, Oh, wow. Because I don't have any agreement around this, maybe, maybe I shouldn't do this thing. Or maybe it's not really necessary. No, no, no. That's the, that's, it's because that's your calling; that's not their calling, right? That's your calling. Your calling is to provide that thing that you see, that thing that you see missing, right. And that's really what a calling is about is that you see -- you uniquely see something that is available or could be available, and that you have the opportunity to go provide that. And I, I really do believe that that's the essence really of not just a calling, but of leadership is that you're somebody that you, you see something, and you're called to be able to provide it. And in the beginning, by the way, part of providing it is starting to build agreement around it. Right. One of the big steps early on is, you know, when it seems like a bad idea to everybody else, you know, your job is to start to say, "You know, wouldn't it be great if we had this? Wouldn't it be great if we fixed that? Wouldn't it be great if that was available," right? And to get people kind of on board with that, that would really make a difference.
Jim Collison 26:51
Dean, as we started to build out this program 9 years ago, you and I had two very pivotal conversations. And I'll remember these -- you probably don't, but I'll remember these for the rest of my life as we, as I got agreement from you to do this kind of stuff. And, you know, 9 years ago, podcasting wasn't what it is today. And we had never done anything like this before. And who is this IT guy that's gonna, like, Why is he asking to do this type deal, right? But that's a, to me, that's a perfect example of what you're talking about, about getting this agreement. It wasn't a guaranteed -- today, we look at it and like, Oh, yeah, that's a slam dunk; that should work. Yes, of course, you would do that. Not in that day. Like there was some question. Maybe we, maybe we shouldn't be doing this. I had people coming to me, saying, why -- I remember customer support pinged me, like, Why are you out answering questions? Like, you know, what, what are you doing there? So it's not always -- I love the fact that you're saying it's not always, not everybody else sees it? But you do. Right? You see it, and you have to keep, you have to keep going?
Dean Jones 27:59
Yeah, it's, it's part of who you are. Right. And it, it really is, you know, in the purest sense, what you're called to do. I love, Jim, what you said there. So for most of my life, I followed Werner Erhard, who has, great, great 20th century thinker, right -- 20th, 21st century thinker, has done more significant work around thinking and breakthroughs. One of the things that Werner Erhard talks about when he talks about a breakthrough is, is, he says -- and I always think it's funny; it's probably not intended to be funny, but I think it's funny is -- "Breakthroughs always seem obvious after they've happened," right, right? After they've happened. Yes, make the wheel round. You know. Yes, make the wheel round. That's a great idea. You know, before they happen, not so obvious, right? Not so obvious. Not a lot of agreement.
Jim Collison 28:48
Yeah. So he's like, No, figure eight is great. Figure eight; we should be using a figure eight. A figure eight guy that's just rattling your cage.
Dean Jones 29:00
Really, exactly. So part of it is, is really is, is really after the fact, really being able to -- or before the fact, being able to say, Yeah, this is the right thing. So one is I think that, again, how do you know something's your calling? Is you've got that unique insight into it. You see what is missing. One of the things that it's always harder to see what's missing than what's broken, right? People, lots of people will walk around saying, "Yeah, that's broken," right? Being able to say, "This is something that's missing that, if it were available, would make a difference" -- much, much, much more difficult, right.
Attribute 5: Is It Exciting and Fulfilling for Me?
Dean Jones 29:38
Last but not, not least, How do you know if something is your calling? Right? I think, and this sounds so funny, but I think it's, it's useful. Last but not least is, it's, it feels to you exciting and fulfilling. You know, it feels like something that is exciting for you. You're excited about that future. And you can see yourself doing it. It feels meaningful to you that, it feels like the kind of work or the kind of endeavor that would give your life meaning. It feels like a future that is worth living for -- the kind of future that you would be willing to, that, you know, that you're, it's worth living for. It's also feels like something that, that would call you into action, right. You're ready to jump in, you're ready to go. So the last one really is exciting and fulfilling.
Dean Jones 30:32
So here's the, I guess, here's the 5 things. Let me recap the 5 things. One is It aligns with your talent. Two, It's consistent with your values. Three, It contributes to others in some way. Four is that You've got some sort of unique insight into what's missing and could be provided. And five, It's exciting and fulfilling for you. So those are the, those are the things that I would use, as you're starting to think about this as sort of a test of, sort of a test of Hey, is this my calling? And is coaching my calling, right? Go ahead, Jim.
Focusing on Finding Your Unique Calling in Life
Jim Collison 31:06
Dean, do you think, sometimes we feel like we get, we get one shot at this in our life, this calling. Do you, is that, I mean, for, in your experience -- you and I have been doing this for a long time -- what, if you miss it, is it gone? Can you come back around to it if it didn't, if you're, maybe you're in the wrong environment, and it didn't work in that environment, but it could work in another. Can, I always just feel for people who feel like maybe they missed the boat. Right?
Dean Jones 31:35
Let me, let me answer your question in a funny way, OK, or in a, in maybe, maybe an indirect way. You know, so I'm on Facebook, I'm on Facebook, and like everybody in Facebook, you know, I belong to a million, million groups, million crazy groups, right. Obviously, I belong the Strengths Coach group, but so I don't know, it was maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I started joining all these groups that were about retirement and people planning for retirement. And initially, I was interested in kind of the money aspect of it, right? How do you plan so you're financially set up and all that kind of stuff? But I ended up in some groups that were people that were planning for retirement or getting retired or were retired. Right. And the interesting thing for me about it was the amount of people that were getting ready to retire and were absolutely miserable. I mean, like, literally, it was like, if you had, if you'd name the group "The Most Unhappy People in the World" group, right? Like, you know, "People That Are Miserable" group, right? This would be the group of people for whom, that are about to retire. Right? You know, all these people are miserable, and all they're doing is complaining all the time. Right?
Dean Jones 32:47
And, you know, and I read this, and I, you know, I just read all the posts, you know, about all these miserable people, right, who are just about to retire. Right? And I, so I think it's one of those things where, and a lot of them were in jobs where they were not happy, where they felt unfulfilled, where they felt like their work wasn't appreciated. They weren't doing what they really ought to be doing in life. Right. And I think part of it is, so, to answer your question, I don't think, I think that people, as people figure out their calling, I, I guess I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I think people have a calling. I think people, just like people have inherent talents, I think people have a calling in life. And that calling in life is something, something fundamental for who they are. I think there's lots of expressions of that calling. You know, so I think, as we figure out in our 20s or our 30s or our 40s, they may be different expressions, but they're expressions of the same talent. You know, they're expressions of the same calling that we've got in life.
Dean Jones 33:52
You know, it's, it's this funny thing with me, like you look at me, you know, when I was a kid, growing up in Lincoln, Nebraska, Omaha, Nebraska, right. And all the other kids were out, you know, playing baseball, because in Nebraska, that's what all little boys do is go play baseball. Right? That's, that's it. That's basically it. Nothing else. Right? You, everybody plays baseball, right? And I was like, all I wanted to do was play teacher, right? Play school. I just loved that. I just wanted that, right. Then I get to high school and all I wanted to do was be a camp counselor. all through high school and college, every summer. All my friends were getting jobs and making tons more money. I was going to be a camp counselor, because I love being in that environment. Right. My first job out of college, I taught at a boarding school, right, at a boys' boarding school. I worked with dyslexic boys, right?
Dean Jones 34:40
So I can see in some ways, and now, you know, it's, I spent this whole, whole first part of my career in sales and marketing, and then ended up back and learning, right? So it's this funny thing, I think, at some way, it's all the same thing, right? It all adds up the same way, as somebody who's drawn to teaching, somebody drawn to coaching, right. And so I think that there's a calling, the kind of fundamental calling that people have. Right. Yeah. Sorry. Oh, my God. Little Dean playing school. I love it! Yeah. Yeah, you do now. It's a lot better than it was then. So I think there's that fundamental calling that we all have. But I think as we go through life, we find what is the right expression of that calling? Right. You know, what is the right expression? I think for all of us, I think that's one of the challenges, by the way, with people starting to downshift in their careers as they move toward retirement, is figuring out, How do I honor the calling that I am and, but maybe in a different environment, at a different pace, with a different audience. Right. So I think there's figuring all that out. Make sense?
Coaching vs. Teaching vs. Consulting
Jim Collison 35:49
Yeah. And I, let's narrow down a little bit, since we're so, you know, we kind of talked about this, What is a calling? Can you talk, some advice on some coaching? Because now, OK, so people are drawn to this, because they want to be a coach. And so as we, as we, as we pop in here, what do you have to teach us on that?
Dean Jones 36:08
One of the big epiphanies I had when we started building the coaching community was that we'd go out and say, "Hey, are you somebody that likes to coach?" And, and people would say, "Oh, yeah, I'm coached, da, da, da." But I realized, as we got into it, that what we were calling coaching, and what a lot of coaches were calling coaching, was actually kind of two different things, right? So people would say, "Yeah, I'm a coach. I lead classes all the time." Now, we'd call that kind of teaching, but they were calling that coaching, right? Or people would say, "Yeah, I'm a coach. I work at an organization, and they make recommendations on how they can, you know, improve their culture all the time," right? Well, we'd call that a consultant; we wouldn't necessarily call that a coach, right?
Dean Jones 36:50
But in fact, the business of coaching, of being a coach in the world, right, you know, is really, really a blend of all those things. There's coaching, there's some teaching, there's some consulting. And we, in some of our classes, some of the courses that we've done, we, we've tried to make a distinction between those things, just if only to clarify the practices around them, right. So there's pure coaching, where you work like our friend, Jacque Merritt, that all of you know, right, you know, she is probably one of the highest expressions of a, of a coach, right? She does one-on-one coaching, she works with people over time and develops people. There's, you know, there's that, that expression of coaching, right? A lot of strengths coaches, kind of what they do is a blend between teaching and coaching, right. So they start out and they, they lead groups, or they teach classes around strengths, and that evolves into doing some interventions with people. And it may not just be one-on-one coaching, but it also may be small-group coaching and that kind of thing, right?
Dean Jones 37:55
There's this quote I dug up that I thought was kind of relevant to this. Many of you guys know Curt Liesveld. When I started working with the Learning Consultants at Gallup, Curt was one of the Learning Consultants at Gallup, and he had been coaching for about 14 years. He was the first person that took me through at the time was our flagship strengths coaching program. And Curt passed away a number of years ago, but I think was one of the highest expressions of being a strengths coach, really gifted and incredible human being. He also, by the way, his book is out, we, his ebook, and I highly encourage -- he's got multiple books, but the ebook he does around theme dynamics, I think, is one of our best. So I'm gonna read you a quote from him, because I think it was really useful here. I think it was, it was valuable.
Dean Jones 38:45
He, and this comes from just, by the way, before he passed away, in his last couple of years working at Gallup, his last maybe 3 or 4 years, I was his manager. I asked him at one point to write me his sort of definition of coaching. And he wrote me like a 20-, 30-page document that was really, for him, like everything that he had on what, what he thought about coaching. I'm just, I'm not gonna read you 20 or 30 pages, but I'll read you this, I'll just read you this paragraph that he wrote from this document that I think is useful. He said, "Coaching certainly appears to include teaching. But it also seems to transcend teaching. Coaches teach for real, as opposed to a theoretical or hypothetical performance -- real time, real place and real results. Maybe we can conclude that there's some connection and continuity between teaching and coaching, with teaching occurring first and focusing more on the basics and the necessary skills and knowledge. Outstanding coaching is likely to be preceded by great teaching, but more focused on the actual performance and application of skill, knowledge and talent in a real setting. In some cases, there will be those who play the role of both teacher and coach. In other cases, they may be more separate entities."
Dean Jones 40:11
And I think, I love the, what he said there is that oftentimes, because in my experience, particularly with strengths, it's kind of that way. You kind of start out teaching and ended up coaching, right, and that the great teaching kind of precedes the great coaching. And, you know, I think particularly your strengths, it's kind of getting people in the world of that. Now, the reason that we put this in a conversation about your calling is, some people are called to teach. Some people are called to coach. Some people are called to consult. Some people have a calling that includes more of those, right. And I also think that there's room for the different expressions inside of it.
Dean Jones 40:50
So I know coaches that are really just more like teachers. They get on the phone with somebody, and they're listening, they're great listeners, and they're great coaches, but it feels a little like teaching when they talk. I know great coaches -- and, and we've got a number of them at Gallup -- that are, that are great consultants. That they get on, on the phone with somebody, and they're great listeners, and they're great coaches, but they're also making great kind of proactive recommendations and really guiding people. They're really functioning like consultants. I know great coaches who are the purest expression of coaches, right, who are great listeners and, and really are able to work with somebody so that they can lead themselves really to their, to the fulfillment of their talents and strengths.
Dean Jones 41:37
So I do think there's distinctions between them. I think, you know, when you're a great teacher, or a great consultant, it's more about putting something into somebody's face that they have to deal with. So whether you're a great teacher or a great consultant, it's more about putting something into somebody's face that they have to kind of wrestle with and deal with. When you're a great coach, it's kind of like being a great therapist, where your job is kind of taking things out of people's face, so that they can move past them. Right. I find that, and I found that, you know, the best coaches are really astute listeners. They, they are really great listeners, and they, they're able to really listen not only to the content of what you're saying, but they're also able to hear what's behind it. And they know how to help you kind of move past it. So Jim, I think you want to get in here and say something.
Focus on Yourself, Not on What Others Are Doing, Not Doing
Jim Collison 42:32
Yeah, do we, sometimes I feel like we get stuck in the nuances of this, and then we start arguing with each other about it or isn't it? Or those -- any advice around, I mean, just as we approach that as a community, I mean, what, what kind of advice would you have for, for our coaches around about handling those, you know, maybe somebody's consulting, but they're calling it coaching or, or, you know, fill in the blank on this, whatever that conflict is. How do, how as a community would you love to see us kind of work together on that?
Dean Jones 43:03
Well, that's a good question. So first, I think the, the, it's probably the first principle is MYOB -- mind your own business. Right? I think mostly, and I mean, that sarcastically, of course, because, you know, that's who I am, but I also mean that, I mean, that intentionally, like, which is that focus on really what you're doing. The first thing, rather than focusing on what they're doing, don't do, don't do their thing, right? You do your thing, right. And you do your thing the way -- I have to always manage myself, because I grew up comparing myself to everybody. So I always think I should be like Jacque Merritt. I always think I should be like somebody else. Right? I always think I should be more like Jim Collison. Right. You know, like I always, you know, I'm always comparing myself to people. And the first principle really is mind your own business, right, which is really pay attention to what you're doing and you run your own play.
Dean Jones 43:59
The other thing, I think, is, I think those distinctions between coaching and teaching and consulting, where they're, they're, they're distinctions that are designed to empower you, not disempower you, right? It's not designed to use as a weapon against someone. "They're not really a coach, because they do da-da-da-da-da," or worse, a weapon that you use against yourself -- "I'm not really a coach because I'm not blah-blah-blah-blah-blah, right? I think that where their, their usefulness is, is to be able to be clear about what you're doing in the moment. Is this a moment that calls for teaching? Is this a moment with this client that calls for coaching? Is this a moment with this client that calls for consulting? And to do the right thing in the right moment.
Dean Jones 44:47
I think in a moment, sometimes, that calls for consulting, if you're unwilling to answer the question that the client has or unwilling to, to provide some advice, you know, then the client gets frustrated and feels thwarted in it. There's times in the moment where the client may say that they're ready for coaching and think they're ready for coaching. But you know that you need to teach some things to them first, right? That they really, that they've got a misunderstanding or a misappropriation of what we're doing here. And, and, and the first thing to do is to teach them. So I think you got to listen, as a coach, you got to listen and decide what's, what's the right thing, what's the most appropriate thing to do? And I think those are useful distinctions for you to be able to say, "This is when I'm teaching. This is when I'm coaching. This is when I'm consulting. And I know the difference between those three things."
Jim Collison 45:37
I love that, that you bring positive intent into this, because I think oftentimes we assume, and this is rampant on social media and email and texts, that we always think, we come at them from, from negative intention, right. They, we come at them -- and I love that. And this is a reminder I need, I think, sometimes too, is to get, assume positive intent in these, right. Assume, assume that we're doing, we're in this all to do it together, to do the right thing.
Dean Jones 46:06
That's right. That's right. And part of being a community is not everybody's like you. Right. And that's the joy of being a community. And, you know, running around a community saying, "Hey, everybody should be more like me," that's obnoxious, right? No, that's not the point of the community; it's that we're all different. And we all complement each other. And so the whole, the whole game here is, is that we're all different. And we're embracing that diversity and at the same time supporting each other. Do you want to, so Jim, do you want to take any questions? Or how do you want to do this now?
Jim Collison 46:36
Yeah, let's, let me, let me as, just, if you've got another couple minutes of things, let's invite the community. They, there's been a lot of comments dropping, which I think are important, but we'd love a few questions from you guys as well. So, Dean, think about a couple minutes of maybe a little bit of a, so folks have some time to put questions and put a queue in there --
Dean Jones 46:57
Put questions in chat. Yeah. Let me just share, so one, you know, so, so funny, but I've got this quote that I'd love to share. I, you know, I was laughing with a guy that I work with, that he's a quote guy; I'm a quote guy. So, you know, we end up spending all day giving each other quotes, right. So let me give you a quote that I think is a useful quote; we're talking about calling. And this is from Dr. Jonas Salk. Dr. Salk said, "To become devoted to a calling, to have a sense of responsibility, and to have hopes and aspirations are all part of being human. To have no calling, no sense of responsibility, no hopes or aspirations is to be outside of life." You know, in other words, to have a calling really is at the core of who we are. So I think, and I think that's a great way of thinking about your calling. It is really that sense of responsibility you have to life and to all of it. And it gives your life purpose. It gives your life hope. It gives you aspirations. It gives your life purpose and really is at the core of what it is to be a human being.
Struggling With Your Calling
Jim Collison 48:01
I love that. Dean, what if I'm struggling? Like, what if I'm in a moment of hopelessness, in the sense of, or I'm, I'm in a job that's not particularly fulfilling? And I've, you know, I've run down that path. And I'm like, I can't get, you know, I can't get out of this, or I don't -- can you talk a little bit about that?
Dean Jones 48:18
Yeah, absolutely. Because I think that, I think that that happens. And I think that that happens, I think that's OK, that that happens, and it happens frequently for people. That people go through life, and they come up a moment where they say, Hey, what was giving me all that juice before, I've got, I've wrung out all the juice from that, right. And I got to figure out what's next. And I think it's going back, going back to those and kind of doing a clean sweep, to be able to say, Well, what are my talents? Fundamentally, who am I? Right? What are my talents? What are my strengths? What are my values? Right? How do I want to contribute to others? Right? What are the things that I can see myself contributing and I get excited about contributing? What is most deeply fulfilling for me? And where do I feel like I've got a unique expression?
Dean Jones 49:06
I think, when you, when you, when you, when you step back from all of it, and I know, Jim, you were talking about taking a week off and just having some time to reflect, you know, for some of us, it's, it's getting away from work and all of that. Sometimes, you know, it's just going to a quiet place, right, and, with our notebook and kind of writing those things out. But I think it's a good time to be able to step back and just listen to yourself. And I think it's a good, it's, when you're in those moments, it's taking stock, right? Taking stock of your talents and strengths; taking stock of your values; taking stock of your, your, the difference that you see yourself making, right.
Jim Collison 49:45
I love that. Justin asks a question out of the chat. He says, How wedded are the, are ICF to the concept of not going beyond coaching and into teaching/consulting mode? He's, he's curious.
Dean Jones 49:58
Yeah, Justin, this is where I am sort of a ICF heretic. OK, so I'm like an ICF rebel, OK, because ICF really does have kind of the purest definition of coaching. I think that's useful. And I think that's good. And what they teach people and train people to do, I think is all good and right? It doesn't include teaching; it doesn't really include consulting. But what I find is, for most strengths coaches, and particularly strengths coaches that work at different levels in the organization, that most strengths coaches, a lot of strengths coaches that work with kind of beginning folks really have to do a ton of teaching, right? So you just can't make it, really, as, you know, like, as just a pure coach; you got to do some teaching in order to get people in the world of strengths. Most executive coaches, most coaches that work with senior leaders and executives, can't get away from consulting. Right?
Dean Jones 50:52
I watched one of Jacque Merritt's sessions from the Summit, from the Gallup at Work Summit, where she talked about executive coaching and she talked about, you know, that where she had sort of started with that pure definition of, of coaching, but, but really, you know, you get pulled into, when you work with leaders, you got to do some consulting there. Right. And that's part of it. And so, I do think, I think that there's, I think, what they, what they do, and what they, what they teach people to do, I think is great from a, from the purest, probably narrowest sense of what a coach is. And, and I think that being a strengths coach, you end up kind of doing all three.
Jim Collison 51:29
I remember a live coaching session that we did during a learning series and during a certain year. And we, we -- and now, everybody's gonna ask me for the link for this. And we, the session was a little beyond, it was more consulting than it was, than it was coaching. And man, it really split the community. Like there were people coming in in the chat saying, "This is not coaching. This is" -- you know. And others were saying, "This is what I love to do! This is the way I coach. Thank you for showing me this way, because it's, this is the way I coach." And so, that was, that was a learning moment for me, Dean. I -- to that point in time, I didn't really understand all of the nuances behind this, so thanks for, I think we need to remind ourselves of some of these. ICF is a way, right. It's a methodology. But there's other, there's other ways to express this thing we call coaching -- however that is, right?
Dean Jones 52:28
That's right. That's absolutely right. That's absolutely right.
Jim Collison 52:33
Ricardo says, Teaching/Consulting is needed when you work with the Sales Report. Right? It's part of the process, right? Do you want to make any comments on that?
Dean Jones 52:46
I, just that I, you know, as a guy who's worked with, and I've done, I've done sessions around this before, but as a guy has worked with salespeople for a long, long time, yeah, absolutely. I think that's part of it. And I think that when you work with salespeople, you know, my, I, I'm always drawn to working with people that are in business development and sales. I love that, I love people, I love that vocation. I love people that are passionate about that. And I also love the talents that, that's involved in that. And to your point, I think that's absolutely right. You have to do some teaching. You have to do some consulting. It's kind of part of it, right?
Jim Collison 53:20
Heather's got a great question. She says, How do you get clients to understand that there is a teaching aspect to strengths coaching, which is and may be necessary before the actual coaching comes into play, and that they probably need to pay for it? Which --
Dean Jones 53:35
Yeah, I think, you know, for part of it with people, it is one of the things that you have to educate clients about before the fact, to be able to say, Hey, to get people in the world of this, we really need to do that. You know, typically, when I've worked directly with clients, one of the first things I typically do is have them do some kind of teaching session, because you just, you have to start that. The, the, what you want to help clients know -- and I think this is the benefit to clients -- is the coaching gets so much more valuable and deeper and more impactful when you've done the teaching before. When you don't do the teaching before, you end up doing some of the teaching in the coaching session. So the coaching sessions are not as impactful. Right? So you want really high-impact coaching? You invest in the teaching before. So I guess that's the way I would, I would position it, you know.
Further Insights Into Your Life Purpose
Jim Collison 54:27
I love it. I love it. Dean, we got just a few minutes left, and I know you kind of wanted to wrap it on a particular subject, so why don't you do it now.
Dean Jones 54:34
Oh, I just you know, when, when so on the, on the topic of calling and your calling, one of the, one of the people who's written just a phenomenal book around, on calling, on your calling in life or your purpose in life is Richard Leider, who -- and I first, I first heard about Richard's work from a good friend of mine who's a strengths coach, Barry Rellaford, had talked to me about Richard Leider's work in this book, The Power of Purpose. And, and I, you know, I think he's a really interesting guy, has got some incredible work and has done a lot around figuring out your calling in different parts of your life, figuring out what your purpose is, right? He tells a story that I think is so incredibly powerful. You know, this is a guy who spent a lot of his time and a lot of years researching the notion of purpose, right, and understanding what it is to have a purpose.
Dean Jones 55:30
He tells a story about, that the thing that created the, probably the biggest impact on him, in terms of understanding purpose, is, is he was leading a seminar, he was leading a seminar, one in front of a large group of people. And he got an urgent message that his mom was in the hospital. And so he decided, you know, after, after, you know, he stopped and, you know, called to find out what was going on. And he ended up leaving the seminar, driving about 4 hours, so, to the hospital, where he could be with his mother. And it turned out his mother was passing away, right. And he gets to the hospital, and his mother is, is really in her final hours. And he tells this incredibly touching story about, you know, sitting in the hospital bed and taking his mother into his, into his arms, and talking with his mother, really, at the end of her life. And she, she, he was there and she perked up, and they were able to talk.
Dean Jones 56:24
And at the end of the conversation, he said, he said, there was nothing else really to say; he said, "Thank you." And then his mother took her last breath and passed away. And he said in that moment, that that moment really taught him more about purpose and life's purpose than all the research that he had done, all the study and the research that he had done. That he said really that at the, everybody, at the end of their life just wants to be told, "Thank you" -- just wants to be thanked for the difference that they make.
Dean Jones 56:55
And in his work, he talks a lot about that there's three things that, that he wishes, or that he's discovered that people wish they would have done more in in their life. And I thought I'd share those three with you. One is to be more reflective. You know, that take more time to be reflective. The second is to be more courageous; that they'd had the courage to just be authentically themselves. And the third is, is that they had more purpose; that they're, that they really had used their life to make a difference, right? And so I think, as we all explore calling, you know, our calling and whether it's, whether you're called to coach or whether you're called to do something else, right? I think it's really thinking about, What is our purpose in life? What is our contribution in life? How are we going to make a difference? This really is I think the fundamental expression of life is for us all to figure out, OK, what are we called to do? What are those, the difference we're called to make? And then to go make that difference.
Jim Collison 57:54
Dean, that is powerful. As you shared that with me in preshow, I was reminiscing about my own mom's passing here just a few months ago. And after, after she passed, you know, people would ask me, "How are you doing?" I said, "Fine. You know, I said everything I did, you know, all the stuff I wanted to do; no regrets." Then you told me the story. And I'm like, Oh, I should have done one more thing. But how powerful that is. How, like, it's gonna be a great reminder to me of just that, trying to get that final "Thank you" in to someone who, you know, in that situation to say, "Thank you," because that's, I think that's super important and probably a life lesson I'm learning right now with you. So thanks for taking the time today to just share this wisdom. We've had a lot of great comments out in the chat room as well. And I think it's just a good reminder for us of why we're listening, why we're doing this thing, and why we've decided to, to do this thing we call coaching. Any final thoughts that you want to wrap it on, Dean?
Dean Jones 58:54
No, I just, you know, as you say that, I, I don't know if everybody knows, but I had a bad accident at the end of March, right? I had a bad fall and ended up having to have emergency surgery on both legs and started a really long period of recovery. Right. I was in the hospital for about 3 weeks, and started a long period of recovery. And I, it, you know, and, and it sounds weird to say this, OK, so I know that this is weird when I say it, but it's turned out to be an incredible blessing in my life. It's turned out to be this incredible, I was driving to physical therapy one morning and I realized, like, I don't feel like a victim; I feel like I've been blessed. And, but it also taught me that life can change at any moment. Right? One minute you're walking into the kitchen to get lunch, and the next minute you're in the hospital. And so I hope we don't wait with people until the end of their life to say, "Thank you." You know, I think it's a great opportunity, for me, anyway, it's reminded me that every day I got to tell people that I care about how much I love them, right, and how important they are and, and how they're making a difference for me. So I think it's a good reminder for all of us.
Jim Collison 1:00:03
I don't think I could say it any better way. Dean, thanks for coming back and doing this with us. And, and thanks for healing up and doing a great job of that and being a good patient. I think you probably were. And, and we're glad that you're back. I know many, many of you expressed that when I posted this in the Facebook groups a couple weeks ago, many were like, "Yeah! Dean's back." So appreciate it as well. Well, what that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we do have available now in Gallup Access. We continue to upgrade and build that out: gallup.com/cliftonstrengths and log in there. By the way, a lot of the questions that you ask me are answered there. So try there first, although I'm a pretty easy answer. So you can, you can pick me too. For coaching, master coaching, or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, you can always just send us an email: email@example.com. We'll get you some help with that. And if you want to follow all the webcasts as they're coming out, follow us on Eventbrite: gallup.eventbrite.com. Find us in the Facebook group: facebook.com/groups/calledtocoach, and join us on any social platform just by searching "CliftonStrengths." Thanks for coming out today. I've been encouraged, and I know you have as well, because you've said so in the chat room. Thanks for joining us today. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.
Dean Jones' Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Activator, Focus, Woo, Strategic and Relator.
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