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Belief: Learning to Love All 34 Talent Themes

Belief: Learning to Love All 34 Talent Themes

Webcast Details

  • Gallup Theme Thursday Webcast Series
  • Season 1, Belief
  • Learn how themes form the core of CliftonStrengths and how to understand and appreciate your own -- and others' -- strengths, as we focus on Belief.

On a recent Theme Thursday Season 1 live webcast, we discussed the Belief theme with Gallup Inside Sales Professional Kelli Winkler and Gallup Education Senior Researcher Tim Hodges.

People with strong Belief talents have enduring principles by which they live. These values vary from one person to another, but those with powerful Belief talents have deeply held ideals and a strong sense of purpose in their lives. These core values affect their behavior in many ways. Their sense of mission gives their lives meaning and direction; in their view, success is more than money and prestige.

Gallup Senior Learning and Development Consultant Curt Liesveld says the Belief theme is about people who are naturally guided and driven by important causes, purposes and values. As part of the Executing Domain, Belief provides individuals with motivation backed by their core values, which can vary greatly from person to person.

Curt says people who use Belief in its mature form tend to have strongly cemented values in which they are confident and committed. On the other hand, someone who uses Belief in its raw, immature form might come off as stubborn and set in their ways. When left undeveloped, high Belief talents can be perceived as someone being unaccepting and intolerant of others.

One theory, according to Curt, is that Belief is developed throughout someone's life by the way he or she was raised. Kelli and Tim both echoed the idea that the values instilled on them throughout their lives allowed their Belief talents to mold into maturity.

To hear more about Belief and how Kelli and Tim use it in their everyday lives, watch the full video or listen to the audio above.

Below is a full transcript of the conversation, including time stamps. Full audio and video are posted above.

What should I look for in a job/career?

Jim Collison 0:00

I am Jim Collison, and live from the Gallup campus here in Omaha, Nebraska, this is Gallup's Theme Thursday, recorded on April 9, 2015.

Jim Collison 0:21

Theme Thursday is a Gallup webcast series that dives deep into the Clifton StrengthsFinder themes, one theme at a time, and today's theme is Belief. If you have questions, comments or contributions during the webcast, we do have a live chat room that's available for you; it's right below, below the main video. Love to have you log into that. It's very, very simple. There's just a login button in the -- in the bottom left-hand corner. Log in as a guest; you don't need to create an account. Just put your name in the guest box so you know who you are. It's great to be able to reference you by name. That's the best way to submit questions into the program. If you're listening to the recorded version, or if you need custom strengths coaching solutions for small, medium or large organizations, you can contact us directly. Just use our email: And don't forget to visit the Gallup Strengths Center for all your coaching resources and training needs. You can also catch the video and now both streaming and downloadable audio for offline listening. Many of you can't join us live. That's OK. We have feeds available through iTunes and Android both, where you can just download those automatically to your device. Catch them in the car, on the train, in a plane as you're traveling. It's a great way to do it. All those resources are available for you: Curt Liesveld is our host today. Curt works as a Senior Learning and Development Consultant with Gallup here on the Riverfront. And Curt, it's always great to see you on Thursdays, and welcome to another Theme Thursday!

Curt Liesveld 1:35

Thank you, Jim. Thanks for hosting this and getting us started again. I appreciate your partnership in making this webcast happen here. Today, we're -- I'm excited to -- can talk with some people about Belief, and I have two of my colleagues that are going to be guests here. We not -- don't have just one guest; Belief is too big of a theme to just have one guest. We have two guests: We have Kelly Winkler and we have Tim Hodges, and so I'd just like to welcome both of those guys. And after I get through my Theme Overture, we'll get them involved in the conversation.

Curt Liesveld 2:09

Belief is a theme that I think has a lot to do with values. It's, it's actually a part of what I often call a "Values Package," which includes a theme like Responsibility and Connectedness. All 3 of those things have some things in common, but specifically, I believe Belief is about people who are naturally guided and driven by important causes, purposes or values. And those cause -- causes, purposes and values can be very broadly defined. But for a person, they're usually quite specifically defined. This theme falls in the Executing Domain in our kind of leadership research around themes and, and domains, but I actually think, as I said, it certainly drives people, so it certainly has a motivational, executionary kind of piece to it. To some degree, has almost a direction piece; it kind of guides people. So it's almost a way of thinking, I think, as well, when we think about it conceptually.

Curt Liesveld 3:14

If I were to kind of pick some words that -- other words that describe what Belief looks like in people, the word "missionary" -- and I mean that in the broadest sense of the word; not a specific faith, but people who are kind of missionaries for some mission. "Mission-driven" might be another word; values-driven, purpose-driven, others-oriented. Someone who is a contributor to, to, to bigger -- to things outside themselves. Some adjectives: Usually people with Belief are quite certain. There is a stability about them; there is a, the values that they have are often kind of unchanging values. It doesn't kind of come and go. It's something that is, is strong and certain and stable. These are people, when I, when I experience people who are passionate, I often find that they have Belief -- this kind of emotional enthusiasm and energy that's aimed at some particular cause, purpose or value.

Curt Liesveld 4:21

They're often very ... and, in some cases, are willing to make sacrifices for that cause, purpose or value. And so obviously, the, the, the balcony of this particular theme is that these are people who really know where they stand, and maybe even more specifically, what they stand for. They're often altruistic. They may be family-oriented; that's another value that, that can kind of be a part of this: the importance of family and values. They're often ethical, and they're, they're often very committed. I mean, if I were to think about the basement, you know, what does this theme look like when it can become kind of problematic? It could be people who are kind of -- might be perceived as stubborn or set in their way. Maybe unaccepting or intolerant of others, opinionated, maybe even in our world of, you know, fundamentalism, I think that could be the, the basement of, of, of Belief.

Curt Liesveld 5:28

I think sometimes, and this is kind of interesting when we talk to Kelly and when we talk to Tim, their Belief occurs in, in a set of other themes. And I think those themes can other -- often shape it. For example, Tim has Woo to go along with his Belief. And so I think that's a, that's a theme that can almost help to kind of soften the edge of Belief a little bit, where I put it this way: You might want to -- might want others to embrace your values or mission. This theme -- that Woo theme -- can help you "win others over"; not only to yourself, but to that cause, purpose or mission. So you could be a charming missionary, which would be a good thing.

Curt Liesveld 6:07

Kelly's got Command in her Top 5. That, that, that doesn't soften the edge; that sharpens the edge. And sometimes you need the edge sharpened. Not everyone agrees with values -- about values. This theme could help to deal with the opposition and resistance that often -- so you might be a -- Kelly might be a fighting missionary, someone who can -- who's willing to kind of get into the battle and, and use kind of power to, to kind of help move that mission forward. So, so that's how other themes might play into this.

Curt Liesveld 6:46

In terms of some of the numbers, frequency and Top 5, this is not a, not one of the most frequent, but it's not -- it's more in the middle. Eleven percent of people in our database have Belief in their Top 5. One out of every 10 people, you're going to kind of find that they might have it. So it's kind of in the middle of the road. In terms of themes that are most likely paired with this particular theme -- and I don't know if either one of you have this, so you don't kind of fit that -- but the theme that is most often and most likely paired with Responsibility in people's Top 5, it's, or with Belief, it's Responsibility. So that makes some sense, as they both have kind of a values orientation to them. The theme that is least frequent focus -- and this is where you're kind of unique, Kelly, it's -- Command is one of the themes least frequently paired with Belief. So you are, in fact, a very unique person. And so we really want to kind of talk about that combination -- how your Command works with your Belief. Because there's not too many people who have this. The other two are Significance and Focus.

Curt Liesveld 7:54

Let's see -- in terms of raw and mature, I, as I have observed this theme in people, one of the things that I've noticed about mature, mature Belief is that it is typically more "for" something rather than "against" something. It's, it's, here's how I kind of describe raw, raw Belief: It moves away from or against those with differing values. It's really against, whereas people who are more, who are more mature in their Belief, whatever that Belief might be, they move towards engage the -- try to engage those with differing values. So that's more of a, an observation on I part -- my part, just kind of an understanding of this particular theme. I think that's enough of me talking here. I'm anxious to, to hear from our guests here. So maybe first, what I'd like each of you to do is just to introduce yourselves and briefly talk, talk about the role that you play here at Gallup. Kelly, why don't you start.

Kelly Winkler 8:59

OK. Well, I'm Kelly Winkler, and I have been with Gallup for 23 years. Started out in -- for most of my career, I've been doing project management with our selection and development, and recently took on a new role of becoming a Learning Solutions Consultant. And so I basically help find solutions for coaches that want to become certified. And, you know, Gallup's mission is to really reach a billion people. And so I really feel it's my job to help us get there.

Curt Liesveld 9:28

I hear your Belief already, Kelly. Thank you. It's great to have you. Tim, why don't you introduce yourself?

Tim Hodges 9:34

Sure. Thank you. And Kelly, it's good to see you again, and Curt, too. I, I've been with Gallup for 15 years and worked a lot with Kelly and Curt, both at different phases during my time at Gallup. The last several years, my work has, has really been drawing me towards education. And, I believe the last 8 years, my client work has always been with K-12 school districts or higher ed institutions, and again, kind of a match for my beliefs in that way. I'm a researcher, Director of Research for our Education Division. I love taking data and making it simple and finding the story in the, in the syntax, if you will, so that we can actually move organizations, particularly school districts, forward.

Curt Liesveld 10:14

Great. Well, I think the question I often get asked by people about not just this theme, but, but all themes is the sources of these, these themes. And the question is usually, Is this about nature or nurture? Is this genetic or is this environmental? And I happen to think -- my theory about this is, this might be one theme that might be a bit more environmental. It might be about experiences that you've had or examples that you've observed at a young age. I'd like both of you to think about that, if you can identify any source of some of the values that are important to you. Tim, why don't you start with that?

Tim Hodges 10:59

Sure. Well, and I love thinking about this question. And whether it's nature or nurture, I guess I both have the biology as well as the environment from my father. And having just a few hours ago returned from a 3- or 4-day trip to Washington, D.C., with him, I was able to talk my dad into StrengthsFinder a few years ago, and he took it, and actually has Belief in his Top 5 as well. So whether, again, whether it's genetic or whether it's environment, I got it from him one way or another.

Curt Liesveld 11:27

Or both ways maybe.

Tim Hodges 11:28

That's right. That's right. And one of my, one of my real mentors in my, in my life is actually my dad's dad, my grandpa, and he was a pastor for many years and was actually the official at my wife and my wedding 15 years ago. And I know there were things in both my my grandfather and my dad's career where they had opportunities that, I mean, my, my grandpa was a pastor of a couple of small-town churches and an auctioneer on the side, and that kind of thing, and my dad was the pig farmer -- still is. Neither of those are known being lucrative careers.

Tim Hodges 11:59

But when you think about the, the way that they've woven themselves in the fabric of the communities they've served. I know I sure admired that. And, and although I probably didn't understand what a salary was or what a, what a job offer was, I know they both had many job offers that would have, in many cases doubled, or even more, their salary. And they said, "No, I can't do that, because I've got people counting on me." And I noticed that, and while I didn't always necessarily agree with it in the moment -- I thought some of those job offers sounded pretty exciting -- I appreciate the way they, they found what, what mattered to them and really stuck with it. And I think that, that probably, I think about that a lot.

Curt Liesveld 12:35

Yeah, good. Thank you. Kelly, how about you? Do you see how either the family you came from, or the experiences that you've had as a, as a younger person shaped this Belief in you?

Kelly Winkler 12:48

You know, I think it's a little of both. I think that I've always had kind of that internal compass kind of pushing me towards what's right, or to do the right thing. But my mom, she always gave a lot of her time. She volunteered a ton. So I'm sure, you know, through her example, I think that that kind of instilled some of those, you know, "giving of myself" values. She also was very strong in her Belief of how you treat people. And so I think she kind of culminated that, you know, in me even more, even though I think it, you know, I had that burning desire, it just developed that strength even more in me.

Curt Liesveld 13:23

You know, I hear both of you talking about Belief. And when you talk about Belief, I think it usually ... It's, I mean, Tim, you were talking about a community, a kind of a commitment to a community. "There's people on here counting on me," and where, Kelly, I've heard you talk about valuing people. Is that true, do you think? Is that -- are people at the core of this, this kind of mission or purpose that you, you feel?

Kelly Winkler 13:50

I think it is for me. I mean, I have Relator, and so I think once I have those kind of, you know, strong relationships, it really does become about doing the right, doing the right thing; having an impact on everybody that I touch. You know, you know, really, really feeling that impact and knowing that, you know, I'm making a difference in their lives.

Curt Liesveld 14:10

Yeah, and I want to have you talk, Kelly, just a little bit. You were just -- I know you're -- you volunteer with the Special Olympics. Gallup has some involvement in that. Talk a little bit about a recent experience you had with, with the mentoring, mentoring a participant.

Kelly Winkler 14:27

Yeah, so Gallup, we host a program here called ALPS: it's Athlete Leadership Development. And really what we do is we meet with some Special Olympics athletes and really help them to put into words their story, and we really help them create those stories and those speeches so that they can go out and really give, give their message to others about Special Olympics and, and you know, what they what they can do, so --

Curt Liesveld 14:55

Yeah, and how did you get started doing that?

Kelly Winkler 14:59

You know, I just, I have always wanted to do -- just to make a difference. And so I think I just seek those opportunities. And, and I had heard about it here and I wanted to be involved. So I volunteered, you know, to be a part of it. And it's been very rewarding. And yeah.

Curt Liesveld 15:15

Yeah, that word "volunteering" seems to be an important kind of lesson that you learned, an example that you saw. And maybe, maybe it's part of that DNA that's a part of who you are, as well. How about you, Tim?

Tim Hodges 15:27

You know, I volunteer in a few different ways. Actually, the the trip to D.C. was for a board meeting. I'm on a national Career Tech Ed Foundation Board, which is really, at its core mission is to figure out how to create a great pathway to either college or career -- and eventually all of us have some form of a career. And so I've served on that as not part of my job description at Gallup. I wasn't paid to be there or anything else. In fact, many of the expenses for the trip came out of my own pocket, but that's important to me.

Tim Hodges 15:55

I -- the other two boards I serve on, quickly, I serve on our Gallup Federal Credit Union board. And for me, it's kind of counterintuitive, but -- because usually banks and credit unions live off of interest from people, you know, taking loans from them. But a big mission of our Gallup Credit Union is about financial literacy and getting them out of debt and the financial freedom that comes with that. And then I also serve on a faith-based human services organization board, where we serve -- last year, we had 298 foster kids that came through our doors, and we're able to place them in homes and, in many cases, get them into a permanent family, which, again, is that Belief theme, it can't get -- I can't get away from it!

Curt Liesveld 16:35

So yeah, I mean, both of you are talking about how your Belief is making you great citizens. I mean, I'm thankful to have both of you, both citizens of our, our state and our country and our world, and you want to make a difference. How has your Belief helped you to be a good employee? How has it contributed to your professional effectiveness and professional success? Tim, why don't you start on this one?

Tim Hodges 17:01

Sure. Well, I actually had fully intended to finish my degree in agribusiness and go back home and farm with my dad and my brother and, and reenter that community. But the economy didn't really agree with what was going on back in, in the early '90s in agriculture. So either my brother or I was gonna need to find another job offer. It was about 20 years ago that I was a student at the University of Nebraska, and I had this guy named Don Clifton come speak at one of our Chancellor's Leadership Class workshops, and I [hadn't] really ever thought about working somewhere other than home. And it was just really something I was excited about. And over the next 3 years of college really found ways to keep coming back to this Gallup. Did job shadowing and other things with folks at Gallup and just, just really got connected there.

Tim Hodges 17:49

So that's how I found Gallup, but over the years I've been here, I've had a few different roles as, as the company grows and changes, as I finished degrees and things. And I will say I'm more -- Belief is an Executing theme. And I am better Executing and moving projects forward when it taps into my mission. And I, I love lots of Gallup clients and lots of opportunities here. But I've personally been drawn to education and, and really thought about How can I help invest in the future generation? I think that's, I think that's my Belief that probably calls me to that.

Curt Liesveld 18:21

Yeah, your engagement is related to your Belief a lot -- the things that you're driven for. Kelly, how about you? How, how has your Belief contributed -- I mean, you've got a, you know, you have a great brand in this organization. How has Belief contributed to that?

Kelly Winkler 18:35

Well, I had a similar experience as Tim. I was taking an interpersonal skills class in college, and a girl in my class that talked about Gallup and just the culture and the beliefs, and I really resonated with that. And so I said, "I want to work there!" So I went home and applied and ended up at Gallup, and then, you know, really believed in, in Don's mission, and so I think that that has really, you know, kept me loyal and and really kept me here, because I just believe in what we do and how we can impact people. So I think about that every day, you know, the lives that we're touching with, with, you know, the services that we're providing, and it just keeps me going.

Curt Liesveld 19:15

You know, another thing I heard you talk about when we talked earlier, kind of in preparation for this call, you talked a little bit about doing the right things for customers. I mean, that sounds a lot like this as well. I mean, it's, it's about other people doing the right thing. So let's talk a little bit about how, how this theme has evolved. Has, has this theme ever gotten you in trouble, either at a young age? Can you talk -- either one of you talk a little bit about the, the, the basement of this theme or how it, how it might have gotten in the way of your success at any time?

Kelly Winkler 19:54

Well, I think I used to get myself in trouble because I would oftentimes tell on myself because I would have that conscience if I did something wrong.

Curt Liesveld 20:03

You got yourself in trouble by being honest.

Kelly Winkler 20:05

If I did something wrong, I'd feel guilty about it. So I would tell my parents what I did. So I learned not to do the wrong thing after that, but I think, I think it can look very stubborn, like you said. I think sometimes I can be other people's conscience, so it can look self-righteous in a way where, you know, like, people will, you know, think of, of you as, you know, being a "goody two shoes" or whatever, you know, always doing the right thing or always wanting to do the right thing. So I think that that can sometimes get in the way.

Curt Liesveld 20:35

I mean, have you, have you changed in any way with regards to how you use this? I mean, has that evolved?

Kelly Winkler 20:43

I think, in the early days, I used to try to convince people to my way of thinking, and I think I've learned more that, that that doesn't, that isn't always a good approach. You're not always going to, you know, get everybody to champion your cause. You know, and, and I can -- I have to be OK with that, where I used to not be. So sometimes I just have to agree to disagree. And I've learned to be able to say that, and I'm not budging and they're not budging. And that's OK. And so it's taken me a while to come to that realization, but --

Curt Liesveld 21:13

Tim, how about you? Any horror, any Belief horror stories?

Tim Hodges 21:17

Well, I, as Kelly was talking about turning herself in, that one didn't come through for me. But my wife actually has Belief in her Top 5 and that, that described it perfectly -- just that, that sideways glance from her parents that she may have done something wrong was, was punishment enough. And I usually required a bit more than that. But I asked, I actually went back to a leadership exercise we did here a few years ago, as I was rearranging a desk a couple months ago, and I came across some words that colleagues had used to describe me. And 3 of them at the top of the list, the 3 most common were, "vulnerable, candid and transparent." And to me, I think that's gotten in my way sometimes because I, I don't have any secrets. If you asked me a question, whether it's personal or professional or whatever, those boundaries don't exist for me. So I'm glad to share, you know, whatever is going on in my life.

Tim Hodges 22:08

But I've realized that not everyone is that way. And I know I, as a manager, a few years ago, I had one employee where, you know, I would ask about his family, and he would say, "Oh, everything's fine." And I said, "Well, tell me more," and, and it was kind of like, No ... and it took me a minute to realize, not everybody's wired like this. And it's, you know, it's not that he's disrespecting me if he's not reciprocating that, wanting to share about his family or what matters to him. And I probably came on a little too fast and it, and the first two or three interactions we had were all about, "Tell me more about yourself." And he had Deliberative as one of his Top 5 themes, and he wasn't ready -- I hadn't earned that trust with him yet for him to open up. So it's not that he couldn't go there, but he just wasn't ready to go there yet.

Tim Hodges 22:50

So I think I've learned that; I can't, I can't say I always react perfectly when someone puts up a wall because I, like I say, those walls don't generally exist with me. And I think sometimes that sharing can make people feel uncomfortable like, well, we're not, we're not that kind of friend yet. And I'm like, well, we are to me. I have Woo. So let's go.

Curt Liesveld 23:09

You know that -- that, you know, as you think about the kind of the regulation of this, this theme, you know, that's part of what we talk about when, when, when a theme gets gets us in trouble -- can you think about any, which of your other themes do you think is the best partner with your Belief? If you think about how that -- which is the one that brings the best out of your, your Belief? And I don't, I don't know what the answer to that, but I'm just curious is, Tim, how about you? Do you you see two of your, which of your themes partners best with Belief?

Tim Hodges 23:39

Yeah, you know, I think my Positivity does. My Positivity is really about bringing energy to a situation and, and when I think about where my, my passion really sits, I, like I say, I work with school districts and higher ed institutions. But if I'm three meetings into a relationship with a client and I haven't met a student yet, it really frustrates me. I spend a lot of time with superintendents and principals and other administrators, but I need to spend time with teachers, I need to spend time with students. And, and I think it really helps me stay in touch with that. And I can bring energy to that. And sometimes our school districts are filled with conscientious administrators who don't always want to spend time with kids. And I try and bring that perspective and say, You know, let's make sure we're, we're listening to that important voice too.

Curt Liesveld 24:24

Yeah. Are you saying that students are more fun than superintendents?

Tim Hodges 24:28

Well, in case some of my superintendent friends are watching, I will plead the 5th. But I suspect it's possible you're onto something. I think superintendents aren't always, don't always give themselves permission to have as much fun as students do.

Curt Liesveld 24:42

Yeah. And there is an energy that, that you get, that you kind of pick up that kind of fuels the mission, kind of probably helps you remember why in the world, you're, you're, you're getting on planes and teaching people; it's, it's ultimately about those kids.

Tim Hodges 24:56

That's right. The best superintendents I work with, when they when they tweet something out, a lot of times they'll say, #kidfix. And they love visiting schools and being active in the schools because it keeps them in touch with that. And I think that's, that's a perspective I share.

Curt Liesveld 25:10

Yeah, great. Kelly, how about you? Can you -- I don't know, I'd be really interested in, in how your Command and Belief but is there a theme that you think best, kind of brings out the best of your Belief?

Kelly Winkler 25:22

I would say my Relator. I think people that really know me and understand that where I'm coming from is coming from a good place. You know, I a lot of times we'll stand up for what our customers need and what they deserve and doing the right thing for them. And I think, you know, people that don't know me that might come across as abrasive and, and, but those people that really know me, they know that it's coming from the right place; that I have the right, you know, kind of -- it's coming from a passionate place, and I want to do the right thing for, you know, who we're serving. So, I think that that really works well for me.

Curt Liesveld 25:55

You know, and, you know, I had the opportunity -- Kelly was in one of our programs, accelerated program is the program she's going to try to help people attend. But anyway, I got to know her in a way that I had not known her. I mean, we've worked together, I mean, not, not very closely, but I've seen you from a distance. And I just have a new appreciation of you because I got, got in touch with this Belief part of you. And I think both of you are, I often tell, tell people that themes make people powerful, beautiful, hopeful. And, and I think this is a theme that makes people beautiful in a lot of ways. I think it makes you powerful, too. But there's something attractive about people who care about other people and want to make a difference in other people. And so, so you're both beautiful. So, let's see. Jim, do we have any questions kind of coming from the world of chat?

Jim Collison 26:53

Yeah, a couple that are out there. So as we work through those, so Derek asked, "What are some main dynamics behind 'the rub' -- I'll put that in quotes -- 'the rub' between people with Belief and people with Ideation? Curt, let me have you start with you. Is there a "rub" between those two or can't -- what do we see as we think of Belief -- people who have got stuff solid; Ideation -- changing things all the time?

Curt Liesveld 27:14

Yeah, I think there's, I think there could be a little bit of "rub." Now doesn't mean that a person, like Kelly's got both of them. She's got Ideation and Belief. I think the tension between these two themes is Belief has a certainty about it, a stability about it. I mean, I might say a, a "closedness" to it. There's some things that we're not going to change; the door is shut, whereas Ideation is more open. It's about possibilities. It's about thinking about new and different and ways. So I mean, Kelly might be able to ask how those two things coexist in her, but, but I understand the tension, but I don't think tension is necessarily a problem.

Kelly Winkler 27:56

Yeah, I don't, I don't really [see it] being in a problem in my world. I mean, it might help me creatively think about, think through, you know, my, my beliefs and all that kind of thing. But I don't, I don't see it ever being an issue.

Curt Liesveld 28:10

And it could make you a bit more open, to some degree. Your, your, your values might be more willing to morph and to shift and to change. They may be, whereas some people might, might have more stable. That could be one -- Tim, I don't know if you have a thought on that or not.

Tim Hodges 28:28

I do. In fact, last week I was in a meet -- kind of a brainstorming meeting with one of our, our sales leaders here. And I, somebody had said, "Well this is gonna be great. I got Ideation; I can't wait to brainstorm!" And I had to pull out my report. Ideation is No. 34 for me. So more evidence that we're not all wired the same way, as Kelly and I are the in-studio guests here because of one theme, but, but certainly not because of the other. She'd be invited to that one, not me.

Tim Hodges 28:55

But I, I felt like in that meeting, I didn't look forward to it because it was ideas all over the place. And I needed the meeting to start with, What's the purpose? Not just of the meeting, but what's the purpose of our future in research and education? Because I knew, if I didn't have that anchor, the rest of this was just gonna feel like almost a waste of time. There's lots of big ideas out there. But I need to know which ones fit us. So there's a little bit of focus to that Ideation. So I found myself quieter in that meeting on purpose than I usually would be because I didn't want to be the "wet blanket" that doused all the ideas. Because the purpose of the meeting was to have 100 ideas and decide at the end which 2 or 3 do we want to pursue first? And I had to, I had to rethink, "What's my role?" And I shouldn't be invited to those meetings very often because I'm not a big contributor about fresh new ideas, but I can sure help sort.

Curt Liesveld 29:48

That's great. Both of your answers are just, I mean, show the kind of the diversity of and the kind of uniqueness of how these things kind of exist in people and coexist with, with lots of diversity, so that's a great, great question. Great answers. Thanks.

Jim Collison 30:04

We, we do have a coaching course going on. Actually, Curt, you're leading it right now. They are listening live there and they're wondering why I didn't get the "vest memo." So --

Curt Liesveld 30:13

Yes, the "vest memo." Yeah, Tim and I have the Theme Thursday vest on.

Jim Collison 30:21

Dionne had asked the question, What interaction would you expect to see between Belief and Connectedness? She has both in her Top 5.

Curt Liesveld 30:28

Yeah, that's a good ques -- and I do see those, those themes kind of, they kind of often live. And I don't know, Tim and Kelly, where your Connectedness is at, but I -- how I kind of define them is I think, to some degree, Belief seems to be more specific. It seems to be more focused values, where Connectedness is kind of a broader -- for example, I often think that people with Connectedness have a, a value for humanity. I, we talked about people are important, but it's almost the bigger picture of humanity, or maybe it's the, the, the, the, the universe. It's, it's, it's that kind of holistic kind of thinking. Did -- Kelly or Tim, do either one of you have Connectedness higher on your profile?

Kelly Winkler 31:16

Mine's 25.

Curt Liesveld 31:17

OK, so --

Tim Hodges 31:19

I've got in my Top 10. But, but I think, you're right, Curt, in saying I think Belief is closer to the -- it's the "boots on the ground." Where I think -- it feels to me like, and I don't remember exactly if it fits in Strategic Thinking Domain. But for me the, the Connectedness feels more like a perspective theme. And Belief is OK, what are you going to do about it?

Curt Liesveld 31:39

Yeah, it's actually a Relationship Building theme. But I think you're right, it seems -- I think it's often about a global perspective that people have, or a holistic perspective. And they certainly, I think, can fit together. I think when you have both of them, I think it just kind of heightens the effect of both. It's they both have a strong values orientation. So it's kind of like 1 + 1 = 3.

Jim Collison 32:03

Allie asks a really smart question. She says, How does Belief impact, either positively or negatively, the development and sustainment of trust?

Tim Hodges 32:14

Well, I might jump in on that. So one of the, one of the things that we realized early in our dating relationship -- my wife and I realized -- that we both had Belief in our Top 5. And I don't know, Curt, I think you've done a little dabbling in relationship research around strengths. I'm not sure that we know that, you know, marriages are stronger if these themes are in common or that kind of thing. But I feel like if you've both got Belief in your Top 5, what you believe probably needs to align because you're both going to feel pretty strongly about it, at least in our marriage. We don't agree on everything, but we agree on all the big stuff. And in fact, we were sure early on in our dating relationship that, you know, how we felt about things like family and things like faith and, I mean, the biggest, most important pieces of our life need to be in alignment or we were just going to move on to the next thing because that, that just needed to fit for us.

Curt Liesveld 33:06

Yeah, no, I think that's a great, great example. I was thinking about Kelly talking a little bit earlier about how, you know, her conscience, about doing the right thing when I did. I mean, I'm guessing it helped you to be a more trustworthy daughter. Didn't mean that you -- your parents probably trusted you more after a few of those occasions.

Kelly Winkler 33:25

Yes, they did.

Curt Liesveld 33:26

Yeah. So I think it certainly could, could contribute to trust in relationships. You're, I mean, if you've got somebody worried about doing the right thing. And obviously, I mean, I think of that, Kelly, you talking about your kind of commitment to doing the right thing for your customers. I think that's how we become trusted advisers to our clients is when, when they really, when they, they can kind of depend on us to do what we say we're going to do.

Kelly Winkler 33:54

It almost takes on a Responsibility for me. I don't have, I don't have Responsibility high. But I think it does make me, you know, have -- it can look like Responsibility for me.

Curt Liesveld 34:04

Yeah, I think those two are really close: Responsibility and Belief. And so I think they do kind of mimic other, and they, they're really pretty close. That's a good question.

Jim Collison 34:14

We were talking a little bit in the preshow, and I mentioned that my wife has Belief No. 1. And I didn't recognize that for about 10 years. And I always -- I fought that a little bit. She is so, what she believes in is true, and I couldn't believe that anyone would have that much consistency and solid Belief and like, "If it's true, it's true, Jim," and it never wavers. And I think, for me, once I figured that out, it changed our relationship immensely. Because now I was, now I don't fight that if I know -- and I don't, I don't try to change that in her. Because I know, man, if, if she's willing to go to the wall for it, she's gonna stick to it. And there's not a lot I'm going to say that's gonna, that's gonna influence it or change it. And so, that -- for me, that's been really good. I don't have any of those in my, in my Top 5 with that. I shift around quite a bit. So it was really, really good for me to kind of understand that from a trust factor.

Tim Hodges 35:08

Jim, I would I would say, so yesterday, I was thinking about this as I was at the Smithsonian of American History in Washington. And one of the exhibits we went past was the, the Philadelphia gunboats. So maybe 300 years ago, there's this boat that's been beautifully preserved. But there's an anchor there. And as I was thinking about this Belief theme, and as I was walking through the museum, certain things kind of stuck out. And that anchor is really a metaphor for Belief for me. You can pick up the anchor and move it to a different place; it just takes a lot of effort. And you really have to think through, "Am I sure it's worth the effort it takes to change my mind about this?" So it's not that I can never be convinced otherwise, but it just takes a little more effort. And then I'm going to put the anchor down somewhere else and it's going to stay there for a while. And so I think it's just -- there's that stability that really feels like it's connected here.

Curt Liesveld 35:58

Yeah, I like that. That ... just like, I think there's also, sometimes when people get their reports and they don't have Belief as a dominant theme, sometimes people think that means they don't have any values. And I don't think that's true at all. I think it means they may not be as aware of values; they may not be as driven by values. But it certainly doesn't mean if you don't have Belief, you don't have any values. One, one question I like to kind of ask people -- and someone actually suggested this question, and I think it's a good one: Did you do anything to transform this kind of natural pattern you have of this orientation towards, towards values to develop it into a strength? Was there any education you got, any experiences that you had that really helped to transform this "being" -- this natural "being" into productive "doing"? Is there anything that's contributed to the evolution or the development of this theme into a strength?

Kelly Winkler 37:05

That's a tough one.

Curt Liesveld 37:06

That is a tough one.

Tim Hodges 37:07

I have a quick example. But as, I mean, as I mentioned, I've been at Gallup for 15 years, but because our work's evolved and things, I've changed roles a few times. And, really, I can, I can grab something from each role that I've played that is incredibly important in my own development where I think I made a positive contribution. But it was really, for me, it was, I realized I needed -- I had options, and I needed to choose to work on projects that really fit me well. I love that we do work in government and financial services and retail and lots of industries. But for me, personally, I was drawn to that education world and I needed to build some expertise there in order to feel I was making a contribution. Where we've got others who, who really build expertise around content, and work with a variety of clients. I kind of felt like, I've got to get the education piece as my "anchor" -- to use that, to use that term again -- and then really develop that deeper over time.

Curt Liesveld 38:00

How did you come? What were the things that helped you come to that understanding that that's what you needed? What were the steps?

Tim Hodges 38:08

I have, I have a mentor here that, that noticed that in me, so that was obviously a really big step in that to say, You're good at this and it feels like you, you care a lot about this. And when I hear people say, "I can, I can tell you're more energetic and you're more alive when you're working in in this particular space," that, that was good feedback for me to receive at a point where I could have gone a couple of different routes. And this, this really, thankfully, has been the right choice for me.

Curt Liesveld 38:33

So somebody else noticed this about you -- you didn't, at first.

Tim Hodges 38:38

Yeah, definitely. I suppose I, I suppose I was there the whole time. But I wasn't as aware of the, yeah, the difference in my energy level when I was around a certain project versus another.

Curt Liesveld 38:50

Kelly, anything that, that kind of comes to mind for you in terms of the, the evolution of this theme -- things that you did or things that really made it more powerful or more productive?

Kelly Winkler 39:01

I think again, the same, same for me, I really have that need, if I, if I'm working with something, I have to be passionate about it. And so I really had that drive to find, you know, to align myself with, with that. I think when I was in my project management role, I was a little bit removed from the front lines. And so I would align myself with the relationships that I had with people that were along the front lines to kind -- to kind of hear the impact. And that's how it fed me to kind of keep moving with, with, you know, my passion and Belief around what I was doing was meaning something because I was helping them, you know, to help our clients. So --

Curt Liesveld 39:39

Yeah, I think that's really, that's really great advice, because not everybody is -- that has Belief is close to the action. And I think just the strategy of, I need to have relationships with people who are on the front line so I can hear the -- the war stories.

Kelly Winkler 39:53

I needed to hear their stories. Yeah, I needed to know how what I was doing was impacting, you know, what we were doing as a, as a greater company, so --

Curt Liesveld 40:01

Yeah, that's well, that's good advice from both of you. I think both of it says that, you know, I mean, we've heard this in your story from the beginning is the passion, the energy that you felt around some important mission or cause has always been a part of who you are and played a role in the work you did and the choices that you made. I mean, that's why I said it both, it both drives and directs. It guides, and as a steering mechanism and a, an energy, a motor, as well. And so it's, it's, it's a really a diverse multi -- multiple, multiplicity theme. Any other questions, Jim?

Jim Collison 40:37

Yeah, Curt, going back to Tim's anchor metaphor, how closely can Deliberative look like Belief, or how can those interact as we think about taking time, because that that anchor, for me, when you said that, Tim (by the way, I'm going to steal that metaphor till the end of the day; it's a great one.)

Tim Hodges 40:55

Don't ever tell somebody with Belief you're gonna steal something!

Jim Collison 41:01

I'll borrow it, then. But how, with, with, you know [Deliberative] going on longer and Belief not moving as quick, can those look like each other, Curt, and as far as, can one use one to have the other if they don't have that.

Curt Liesveld 41:14

I think Deliberative might -- one of the words that I think defines Deliberative is vigilance. It's paying attention, guarding. And I think there could be a vigilant guarding, Part 2, I mean, guarding the truth or doing the right thing. I think, I think that's a good -- that could be a theme that you could use and that people might often use to kind of protect values and kind of defend values. And so, yeah, I think there's, there's certainly a connection there. I don't know if either one of you have Deliberative; I, I'm guessing neither one of you do, but ...

Kelly Winkler 41:53


Tim Hodges 41:54

I'm about the same, but I was just thinking about it. Belief to me is not a "brake pedal," though; it's a "gas pedal." When I get excited and passionate about something, it makes me go faster. If I'm not interested, I can, I can just move on and let somebody else have it and run with it. But for me, when I, when I really get my heart and soul and I get in this, you know -- there's positive psychology talks about "flow." You know, you get in this state of where you lose track of time because you're so excited about what you're doing and it doesn't feel like work.

Kelly Winkler 42:23

Yeah, I tend to get more articulate and when I'm talking about things that I'm passionate with, you know.

Curt Liesveld 42:27

Yeah, no, absolutely. Tim, I think you [are passionate] about the Kansas City Royals, correct?

Tim Hodges 42:33

In fact, there's a poster right, right here that's the schedule from an American League pennant-winning season. Yes!

Curt Liesveld 42:41

And they've won two games already there. They're 2-0. That's in case you -- I'm sure you know that, but --

Tim Hodges 42:45

Yes, I've listened to both.

Curt Liesveld 42:47

There's a, there's a passion there. And I think part of that -- sometimes I think when we have passion about teams, I think people think, "Oh, they must be -- have Competition." But I think when I hear you talk about community, this is the local team. This is the local Major League Baseball team. And then there's the -- you're also I think a Husker fan, you're a Nebraska fan. So these are local to your community. Why would you not be passionate and committed about the local team? I don't know if that's true or not for you.

Tim Hodges 43:17

Well, there's a lot of, there's a lot of people that are Yankees fans, or you know, whoever the, the best team has been of the last generation or whatever. For me, I mean, candidly, not to date myself, but the Royals won the World Series when I was 7 years old, at a pretty impressionable age. So I suppose there may have been some of that that turned me on to it. It was the team that was on the radio. But the fact that I stuck with them through almost 30 years of never making the playoffs is a loyalty kind of theme. But I have to say, I've been a fan my whole life, but about 6 years ago, there was a group of 3 other guys here at Gallup, who are also Royals fans, and we ... there, and if you, if you would watch our email and our texts and things during a game, you would know who we are. Because our -- we are back and forth during innings, and we watch games together. Now DVR has about ruined our relationship because somebody else says, "Oh, what a great home run!" And I'm 5 minutes behind and they ruin it for me. But, but that relationship has tied with my, my loyalty and fun about something as trivial as a sport that you know I'd have no vested interest in. But I've really enjoyed it more in in relationship with people I care about.

Curt Liesveld 44:23

Absolutely, this -- that people orientation is, is a big part of that.

Jim Collison 44:27

Well, only fans, only Cubs fans have more Belief!

Kelly Winkler 44:31

Hey, what about Denver Broncos fans?

Curt Liesveld 44:33

Talk about long-suffering! That's Deliberative, not Belief.

Jim Collison 44:38

That is awesome. Well with that, we'll, we'll kind of call it a wrap. Curt, anything you want to wrap this up with?

Curt Liesveld 44:42

Yeah, I just want to, want to thank Kelly and Tim again for letting your values show here. I think sometimes that's the challenge of, of Belief is how do we let these kind of personal important things inside of us come outside? And I have seen examples of your Belief outside of you, because that's really what it is. It's, it's something that drives you and guides you. And so I want to thank you for being transparent, open and letting our, the people on the show see that and hear it from you. So thanks a lot.

Tim Hodges 45:14

Sure. Thank you.

Kelly Winkler 45:15

You're welcome, thanks.

Jim Collison 45:15

You bet. Very good. I'll say thanks, as well and remind folks, if you had questions, we couldn't get to them all. And if you did have questions, let's take them to the Facebook group. So just head out to That will get you, that'll get you the group. I just put that link in the chat room as well -- one of the advantages to joining us live, if, if you don't do that. We do do these every other Thursday and have the schedule out at our Eventbrite site. Just go to And those are all available for you out there as well. Curt, we got some great feedback on having two guests this time, in the chat room. They said it was really nice to have the differing opinions with the different dynamics. One of the things that's coming up here at the end of the summer, we're going to talk more about theme dynamics or expanding your strengths. And so we've been testing -- this is a little bit of a test to see how that would go. And so we appreciate your feedback on the program as well. And it was fun. Kelly and Tim, thanks for doing it that way. Appreciate it. We'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources that we have available at the Gallup Strengths Center, just Send us your questions. If you got some things offline that you want to talk to us about, you can send those to And you can catch the recorded audio and video of this program as well as all the past ones. We have our Facebook links, YouTube; it's all out there. Just go to -- every way to connect that we can think of is out there, including the new Theme Thursday shorts. If you can't get all 45 minutes of this in, you can catch the first 8 to 10 minutes of it. This is a great way -- build your friends these playlists on YouTube with the shorts, and then they can always go there and listen to them one after the other. YouTube now has an autoplay feature. It'll just keep playing one video after another, and a great opportunity for them to get deep into their themes. And so build those for your friends. You can give them to them on YouTube and get that done. If you have any questions on any of the technology, just, you can always contact me. I'd love to be able to help you with that. We want to remind you, we have StrengthsFinder apps for both Android and iOS as well. Just go to either one of the stores and search "StrengthsFinder." And then we want to say, if you found this helpful, please share it. Let other people know. Don't keep it a secret; pass it on, and we'd love to have you do that. And we'll look forward to the next Theme Thursday. And with that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Kelli Winkler's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Ideation, Strategic, Relator, Command and Belief.

Tim Hodges' Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Maximizer, Relator, Belief, Woo and Positivity.

Learn more about using CliftonStrengths to help yourself and others succeed:

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