- Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series
- Season 8, Episode 70
- Find out how an emphasis on becoming your "best self," using your Top 10 strengths, is helping a coach and his large banking firm find success in the midst of change.
- Interested in learning more on this topic? Read more about how to improve teamwork in the workplace.
Peter Wolfe, Tribe Performance Lead at the Australia and New Zealand Banking Group (ANZ), was our guest on a recent Called to Coach. Peter talked about how a CliftonStrengths-based approach has aided cultural transformation and team agility efforts at his firm, as well as his work as a coach. His insights included:
- The importance of seeing your Top 10, not just your Top 5, as allies in your life and work
- The practical usefulness of the Top 10 in helping people become their best self (and team member) and in times of change
- How aligning your coaching with your Top 10 will increase its effectiveness
Below is a full transcript of the conversation, including time stamps. Full audio and video are posted above.
I really enjoy, almost as part of every day, helping people, helping teams focus on -- in the context of coaching -- the best they possibly can be.Peter Wolfe, 52:11
These Top 10 are very much part of our world almost every day. ... I really encourage people to ... leverage those outside the Top 5 that probably give them as much potential and opportunity as ... the 5. ... It's their toolkit.Peter Wolfe, 4:09
There's been a lot of movement in people and teams, and the strengths approach has helped with a number of conversations that I've had around where do they want to go next or what do they want to explore next?Peter Wolfe, 32:03
Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and live from our virtual studios around the world, this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on September 22, 2020.
Jim Collison 0:19
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's just a link right above me there on the live page. Choose that. Go to YouTube. Sign into the chat room. You can ask your questions anytime during the program. If you have a question after the fact, you can always send us an email: email@example.com. Don't forget, if you're on YouTube, you can subscribe and you can always listen to as a podcast. Just search "Gallup Webcasts" in any podcast app. Anne Lingafelter is our host today. Anne works as a Learning Solutions Consultant at Gallup with me, although a long ways away. Anne, welcome back to Called to Coach!
Anne Lingafelter 1:03
Thanks, Jim. It is great to be here in what is now springtime in Sydney, Australia. And it is absolutely beautiful. And my guest is in Melbourne, which is not too far away from here, and I'll introduce you to him very, very shortly -- or you'll hear from him very shortly. Peter Wolfe is a passionate and trusted people leader. Originally from the U.K., Peter and his family relocated to Melbourne, Australia, 16 years ago with Price Waterhouse Coopers, where he worked across the audit, assurance and consulting businesses.
Anne Lingafelter 1:38
Since 2010, Peter has been working with the Australia and New Zealand Banking Group or the ANZ as we know it out here, where his roles have been in projects, business management and operational leadership positions across technology, and most recently within the bank's cybersecurity business. Having become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach in 2017, Peter has spent a considerable amount of time investing in individual and team development, integrating this coaching framework alongside existing organizational initiatives, focusing on employee engagement and high-performing teams.
Anne Lingafelter 2:15
His mission is to bring a strengths-based mindset to everything that we do, challenging each of us to become better versions of ourselves. Over the last 18 months, Peter has been incorporating this strengths-based approach into agile teams, where coaching and development conversations are embedded in ongoing delivery (keen to hear more about that one!). Since becoming certified, Peter has facilitated both individual and team strengths-based development to several thousand individuals globally, with each interaction focused on providing a greater depth of awareness and appreciation of ourselves and how we filter the world, and encouraging teams to leverage the unique contribution of each and every individual. In the last year, with the support of ANZ, Peter has also launched his own consulting business, where he is seeking to extend his learning further and provide wider development opportunities for individuals and teams outside the bank. Peter, welcome to Called to Coach! We're very pleased to have you here.
Peter Wolfe 3:20
It's lovely to be here, Anne. Thank you very much. I'm very excited to tell you more about the strengths work I've been doing.
Anne Lingafelter 3:26
Yeah, fantastic. Start us off please with your Top 10.
Anne Lingafelter 3:48
Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. And, and you told me before the show that you swear by the Top 10. You know, for many years, we talked about the Top 5. And now we've really transitioned into one where we are focusing more on the Top 10. Why do you swear by them?
Peter Wolfe 4:04
I think, to be honest, Anne, I think it comes down to the fact that these most dominant talents we have -- these Top 10 -- are very much part of our world almost every day. And, you know, I, in the coaching, or even the conversations I have with teams and individuals, I really encourage people to see beyond the 5 and really leverage those outside the Top 5 that probably give them as much potential and opportunity as those in the 5. They shuffle around; it's their toolkit.
Anne Lingafelter 4:39
Yeah, absolutely. But most importantly of all, we don't want them focusing on the Bottom 5, right, which is, is, is -- as you and I both know, oftentimes when we hand that report to folks for a coaching session or a team session, the first thing they do is turn it over and look at the bottom, which -- and focus on their weaknesses, right. So that's a, I guess it's a hard habit to break. But we're trying, correct?
Peter Wolfe 5:01
That's it -- it's human nature to really drive to the sort of the lesser talents, those ones in the, in the 30s. But often, as we know, the sort of, the conversations that then ensue around, "Well, actually, those ones at the top kind of help me get to where I need to get to." And that's what it's all about. And that's, that's very much the, the, the passion, enthusiasm I bring in my conversations.
Anne Lingafelter 5:26
Yeah, fantastic. For the benefit of our audience, Peter, talk to us a bit about the ANZ and your role there. Give us a bit of context, if you don't mind.
Peter Wolfe 5:37
Yes, certainly. So, Australia New Zealand Banking Group. So ANZ Bank is one of the top, I suppose, 4 banks in Australia. It's a traditional retail bank that, that we know and love throughout the world. It has about sort of 50,000 employees globally, largely based around Australia and New Zealand, obviously, but we have a significant presence in the Asian markets, as well as Europe and, and, and North America. So it's, it is a global organization, but we focus more around the sort of the, the region of Asia Pacific, but equally, the markets outside of that.
Peter Wolfe 6:17
And, and my role within the bank is part of the technology team. So I work as a Tribe Performance Lead, which I'll talk more about later, in the Cybersecurity eam. And, and our role is basically to bring security to life and make it matter and help people and our community and our customers sort of understand their roles and responsibilities into how to be cybersafe online. Because it's, it's everyone's, I suppose, role or responsibility?
Anne Lingafelter 6:54
Yeah, absolutely. I, you know, I think anyone who works for an organization, especially a big corporate, will understand and appreciate the time that is spent in, in doing your security training and doing, and following the, you know, the cultural aspects of being part a good citizen, a good corporate citizen, and following all of that. But when someone has their busy schedule and their busy day, and they haven't done their, their corporate security yet, you know, and it's sort of one of those things on the back burner, I think it's really an interesting concept to bring strengths in to say, How can we actually make this a priority and help people focus more on it?
Anne Lingafelter 7:33
Does it get down to that granular of a level where you're trying to get people to respond to being a good corporate citizen and cybersafe from the strengths perspective?
Peter Wolfe 7:45
Yeah, maybe not directly in the strengths sort of language concept, but, but very much, it's all about the human, it's all about the human element, the people side of it. And that's certainly what I feel I can bring and help with around how different people react. It's, it's potentially the, the Competition that I have in my No. 5 that's all about comparisons, on all in all about thinking about, sort of, well, why do people operate in different ways, and that feeds into a lot of my Individualization, which is my No. 2. So just the, the theme dynamic around those two just brings it to life for me in terms of how people just act and behave that is different, but unique, and, and equally sort of contributing to sort of being cybersafe online.
Anne Lingafelter 8:33
Yeah, fantastic. Let's go back now to the beginning of your strengths journey. Where were you introduced to strengths? And, and, and how did you start to think about and consider being a coach?
Peter Wolfe 8:44
Yeah, so it was, I think, about 7 years ago, within ANZ bank, where I was introduced to it as part of a, you know, something that will probably resonate with a lot of people almost like a team-building, an offsite event, where we as the leadership group completed the, the CliftonStrengths, or StrengthsFinder as it was back then, assessment. And, and we got to dabble with it and explore a little bit of the, the meaning behind it.
Peter Wolfe 9:15
For me, though, is sort of paused a little bit there. I was naturally fascinated with it, as I am with a lot of the people-related sort of initiatives and frameworks, but it sort of part for about 2 or 3 years and then, in the context of my own development and with the development that was going on within, within the bank, there was a move to becoming more of a -- there was a bit of a cultural transformation, a focus on New ways of working. And the strengths sort of conversation arose again for me, with my teams around, you know, I received a lot of the emails that Gallup send out, and it pricked my my mind and interest in, in the opportunity to potentially become certified as a coach, because it's always something that's fascinated me.
Peter Wolfe 10:05
And that took us to about 3 years ago, where I was, I was fortunate enough to be sponsored by, by ANZ to become certified and go through the Global Strengths Coach, or the Accelerated Strengths Coaching as it was back then, to, to really dive into the depth of the, the learning and development that it offers. And, and from there, for the last 3 1/2 years, I've been very fortunate to have that support of ANZ in, in really learning and developing and embracing the framework further across the whole bank.
Anne Lingafelter 10:41
Yeah, fantastic. Because it's interesting, when we hear about large organizations having these cultural transformation programs, I think for most people, they think initially, Oh, that can only be a good thing. It can't be, you know, necessarily have bumps or, or, or challenges. It's, you know, you're going to get to a better place; you're focusing on people. And that, that's often the -- I think the way that we think about cultural transformation programs. But the "New way of working" program was was a lot about agile as well, was it not? Yes?
Peter Wolfe 11:16
Anne Lingafelter 11:17
And so I think, and with that, you know, what I had sort of read and understood -- and I'll be keen to know if this was what it was really like on the ground -- when ANZ launched this "New way of working" agile program, it actually, everybody -- 9,000 people in the Australian office had to all reapply for their roles. And, and, and then there was a, sort of a -- my understanding was -- a bit of a transparent, almost like a fishbowl in the, in the center of the, the main -- one of the main offices, where all of the strategy was being worked out and done. And anybody could come in at any point and have a look at what the strategy was, was on the wall and what was going to be happening. So it was very transparent.
Anne Lingafelter 12:02
And, and shifting from, you know, certainly needing to reduce numbers to -- staff numbers to a certain percent -- extent -- and developing these sort of tribes and squads and then cross-tribe collaboration as well. Now, have I got that right? Is that an accurate description of what was happening with that transformation?
Peter Wolfe 12:27
Yes, yes, it kind of worked from a, so when Shayne Elliott, our CEO, joined the bank a number of years ago, he really launched this, this sort of focus around the new ways of working, and very much from the, the, the way we do business. And, and, and he brought and came with a new sort of purpose statement, which is all around helping our people and community thrive. And, and, and really, as part of the New ways of working and really putting ourselves in the shoes of the customers, we needed to sort of work towards How do we best organize ourselves as the bank to deliver those great customer outcomes?
Peter Wolfe 13:12
So from, from the, the numbers that you gave, that was focused around technology, so, so within the technology team, we were part of the, the transformation. and, and it was very much I brought, if you like the the sort of the concept around, well, let's think about the strengths-based approach to how I can integrate that into the work that was happening as part of the bank. So we were changing, people were, were looking to sort of move into different roles, different parts of the bank. And where I came from, was, was that opportunity to embrace the -- a lot of the sort of the writings of the time. Particularly from Carol Dweck, from the growth mindset perspective, which was one of the sort of the foundational elements of a lot of the transformation that we were working on to really bring to life the, Well, how about let's focus on making ourselves the best version we can be? And that's where I saw the synergy with the strengths-based approach in the context of the enterprisewide transformation that we were embarking on about 4 years ago.
Anne Lingafelter 14:21
Yeah, fantastic. And I, and I would imagine that as you're switching to that agile sort of tribe or team structure, so suddenly you have, I mean, your role or your place in that tribe really has to do with the role that you play, doesn't it? So it's really, you know, you're trying to have someone from each team or one person to do, in order to achieve whatever that project or that team is meant to be focused on. Because it's so role-based, how do you bring sort of strengths and the understanding of the team into that? Because everybody, I mean, obviously, you can see where the, the individual knowledge and appreciation of your own natural patterns of thought, feeling and behavior would be useful. But, you know, you are then this team of these individuals, and it has to be that team. You have to be doing those roles in a tribe. Is there any challenge with that in a strengths approach?
Peter Wolfe 15:20
I think, yes, yes, there can be. Because I suppose what I've, what I've brought with the role that I have, as I touched on the sort of the title being a Tribe Performance Lead. So within the, the sort of the area I work, there are 3 or 4 teams that we call "Squads." And essentially, my role is to help those teams embrace the sort of agile sort of practices of different ways of working. And what I bring, or have brought, through my sort of, sort of I feel like tailored with my high Individualization, again, approach is to ensure that each person is able to focus on those development opportunities, to actually encourage others to see the contributions of the other members of the different teams. And to keep sort of almost subtly at start -- to start, but keep reflecting on those and integrating those sort of conversations into existing meetings or ceremonies, as we might call them in a in a sort of the agile environment.
Peter Wolfe 16:30
But it's very much becoming that language of strengths. And the challenges are around, you know, we're busy, we're obviously busy; there's lots happening. And my people focus adds that lens of, Well, let's not forget about how we're thinking or how we're feeling, or how we can value that contribution of others. And that's certainly what I've tried to bring in my own, my own team, but also more broadly across ANZ with a number of the different tribes or areas of the bank that have embraced this framework.
Anne Lingafelter 17:05
So what does "agile" look like at ANZ today? You know, you that was, it was sort of kicked off -- the New way of working -- what was that, 4 years ago, or something like that? Where has it settled now? And specifically -- really, really specifically, if you don't mind -- giving us a an example of how you bring strengths into the agile process? I think, you know, if you think about the, the coaches that might be listening, perhaps they've just gotten the contract to work with an organization that wants to incorporate strengths and agile. How have you done it? And how, where have you found it really successful?
Peter Wolfe 17:43
So a couple of examples, perhaps. Firstly, within an agile environment, we work in the context of the backlog, which is, which is the, the work, the activities that we need to undertake to sort of deliver value to the customer, whoever that might be. It might be another part of the bank; it might be the customer who's receiving a new product or service. But essentially, what I've done within my own area, or, or tribe, is integrate the specific stories, which are the pieces of work that are undertaken as part of the agile sort of environment. So that it's, it's tracked, it's managed, people are focusing on it. So it's very much integrated into our work practices.
Peter Wolfe 18:31
The other, the other part is where I've worked with other parts of the bank in the more mature, I suppose, agile environments is thinking about strengths in the context of the, the sort of phased evolution of this coaching conversations over periods of time. So we within the agile environment and context or sort of terminology we use these -- the concept of sprints, which is a period of time that we essentially have to deliver value. And what I've integrated most recently, and, and this is where I've been working with a great strengths coach, Dion Rademeyer previously. He and I have been talking about that integration into the, the strengths, sort of the sprint-based approach, and I've, I've been trying that out with, with Dion's sort of guidance support along the way.
Peter Wolfe 19:25
Where, for instance, you might do the assessment in sprint 1, the first, first couple of weeks. You might then have those interactions that are more of a personal individual nature in the next sprint, the next sort of period of a month. And then finally, you might then have the team interaction in the following sprint, so the following month. So, so what you're essentially doing is you're creating a program of work that's focused around development in the strengths-based context within the work and the program of work that the different teams have. But -- and that's been a, an opportunity that I've been working with a number of teams that, that they're starting to really get that strengths-based language flowing.
Anne Lingafelter 20:10
Yeah. And I think that whole concept and idea of integrating strengths into the already-existing priorities of an organization and a team is 100% the way to make sure that it is sticky, right, that it doesn't go anywhere, that it's not sort of a "flash in the pan." And I tell my clients all the time that it is not the destinations. You know, becoming a strengths-based is not the destination, it is the vehicle to getting to whatever it is that your organization has set as their, their goals and their missions, and so forth. So outside of agile, what other ways have you linked strengths into systems and processes and preexisting priorities of ANZ?
Peter Wolfe 20:56
Yeah, great question. And it's certainly been one of the, I suppose the key sort of opportunities I've been able to really gain success from. So the, the really one of the most important pieces that's helped me and the framework grow within ANZ is, is linking it to existing people initiatives. So existing, or we have our New ways of working. But we also have something called New ways of leading, as well as the sort of the methodologies around some of the agile and how you can bring it to life within the respective squads or teams. So what I've essentially done, perhaps, rather than saying, Hey, this is, this is the CliftonStrengths approach, I've leveraged almost specifically and directly from the outset how it feeds into the growth mindset piece, for instance, as I said before. Well, it's, it's all about helping you become a better version of yourself. That's essentially what it's all about, and, and linking it as part of the overall people programs. so that people often get that reassurance that it's not something that's, that's maybe sort of significantly different from what we're already embracing.
Peter Wolfe 22:13
And I remember the, the early conversations I had with our HR teams. We refer to our talent, talent and culture. They really encouraged and supported this, this concept to grow within the, the sort of the, the frameworks that we had, just to enable that sort of that "stick" and, and embedding across the different areas. So, so we would work very much in partnership with the sort of those central teams to help bring it to life in, in reality for those individuals, sort of working on those teams specifically.
Anne Lingafelter 22:51
Yeah. Do you take things like your performance discussions and your engagement scores for teams? Do you bring it into those conversations? Or do, or do you coach managers of teams on how to do that?
Peter Wolfe 23:05
So yes, I do, from the first part -- from around the, from the engagement piece. I look after a number of the people-engagement initiatives within, within my own team and help encourage sort of some of the actions. And that's where there's the Q12, the, the engagement piece, fits in nicely. But the concept of strengths has been very much embedded in those sort of engagement surveys. And, and I'm very clear, often in terms of how I can actually, again, integrate it into the conversations you have about, you know, employee engagement, you know, getting to do what you do best every day, you know, do you understand what's expected of you?
Peter Wolfe 23:57
And those sort of conversations really breed the, the, sort of, the, the synergy with, with the strengths-based sort of language. So this is something I've integrated again, you know, helping the team sort of see that it's, it's not something that's different, but it's something that's very much part of what we're already doing. And that's what I've tried to do. And to be honest, I'm probably playing a little bit to my high Individualization here in terms of, you know, rather than creating something new, I'm customizing something to, to bring it to life for the, for the people themselves.
Anne Lingafelter 24:34
Yeah. 100%. And it's been really interesting in -- your telling me the story prior to the show. And you were saying that the people that you've coached and the teams that you've run workshops for at the ANZ have so embraced this concept and, and made it their own. And you're doing this clearly, you know, outside of your own team and, in some cases, outside of, of Australia. So with different ANZ staff in India and other locations. So that's, you know, that's really fantastic. And have you had any unique challenges with some of those folks in other countries, like in India and, and different, you know, folks that you're not ever going to cross in the, in the hallway or in the lift lobby?
Peter Wolfe 25:23
Oh, to be honest, I haven't found a significant challenge in, and actually the sort of the COVID-19 times have been more virtual experience is very much how I was able to engage with teams, even, even in the U.S., with some of our teams in the U.S. and Europe and Asia, within the, the sort of the environment of that virtual training room. So, the, the, I suppose the tools and techniques that we learn and grow and develop over the years within the sort of the strengths-based environment are just so powerful, that it crosses those boundaries, to be honest, even the cultures. And, you know, just the the, I was fortunate to, to visit some of the India offices and, and again, having the, the intensity of that though, the sort of the, the training and development in situ, in, in sort of Bangalore, where, where ANZ has a couple of offices, was really powerful and really exciting to be able to share in person.
Peter Wolfe 26:28
And, but even on virtual, the, the connection that you make -- and this is something I've found, even most recently as within our current environment -- you know, the engagement that you can have with people on the video is you're, you're there, you're in the moment, which is sometimes a little bit better even. And I was chatting to Jim about this earlier: Sometimes it's more engaging within the virtual room than in the classroom. So because you're sort of there in the moment with people, but the global nature has been something that's been really fantastic.
Peter Wolfe 27:02
And I guess the other piece, I just wanted to say, you mentioned the, the fact that it's not necessarily part of my day job, and I've sort of experienced that more broader engagement outside my direct team. I think one of the, one of the things that has been truly exciting, or really rewarding, for me was having that leadership support, and having the support of the senior leaders within, within the bank to encourage and allow me to, to almost take the framework more broadly than my immediate team. And that sort of even plays directly to the, the sort of the transformation that we touched on before, that the whole concept of the development for the broader team was what really excites me and, and, you know, the, the opportunity to take this framework to others and help others learn, grow in teams is quite exciting. So the support, though, has been phenomenal.
Anne Lingafelter 28:04
Well, and that is. Hats off to ANZ really. That -- they're really putting their, their money where their mouth is, so to speak, and, and allowing you to take that beyond your team and be the best version of yourself and, and have the ability to do what you do best. And the fact that they have supported you, even as you've been very clear that, that at some point you are -- you've started your own business and that you and, you know, you want to be able to transition into more and more coaching outside of the ANZ as well. Just, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of folks who are listening to this saying, "Wow, you know, how did you how did you pull that off, Pete?" So, so how, I mean, can you talk a little bit about that? I mean, that's amazing flexibility and, and sponsorship on, you know, from, from your employer. How did, you how did you negotiate that?
Peter Wolfe 28:56
Yeah, it sort of, within ANZ, we, we're very fortunate there are a number of flexible working arrangements and the opportunities to explore and learn and grow and be curious, which is one of those sort of key behaviors around the sort of new ways of leading that we've established. But for me, I was able to leverage the, I suppose the opportunity where we could condense my work fortnight. So I could work 9 days over 10, and essentially free myself up and have the approvals from the sort of the, the key teams in the bank to do that, so that I can explore more broadly outside of, of the bank.
Peter Wolfe 29:43
And but you touched on the important piece around just being open and transparent. And, and actually making it known to the team I'm working with directly on a day-to-day basis. But also those externally to say that, you know, I balance this and I'm, the intent is to sort of help where I can, and just being, I suppose, able to sort of deliver on what I need to do as part of my day job. But the support that ANZ has provided me around that condensed work fortnight gives me that opportunity to, who knows, somewhere down the track, I can expand something more broadly outside.
Peter Wolfe 30:25
But I guess there's that fine line, you know. I'm certainly very much enjoying the work and opportunities that I have. And I'm still growing, and I'm still learning, and just the opportunity to explore sort of outside of my, my -- the bank is, is another fantastic opportunity that I'm, I'm very lucky to have. But certainly the, the support and the flexibility that that we provide our employees and the people that I work with directly has been, has been tremendous.
Anne Lingafelter 30:56
Yeah, fantastic. Let's, let's go back. Now that you've been there for several years and have been having these strengths conversations and such, the reality is, it's been a tough few years in Australia. You know, certainly in the, the banking industry on the back of the Royal Commission, that was something that, that for, for many folks in, in the banking industry, you know, their pride in where they worked, their morale, you know, that sort of thing probably took a hit to a certain extent in, in some organizations. Did you see evidence of that in, in your coaching and in your sessions that you were doing? And if so, how did you address it?
Peter Wolfe 31:35
Yes, I mean, it really comes back to our purpose from, from an ANZ perspective about how we can help people and communities thrive. And I've always, again, the Futuristic, which is my No. 1, I'm really driven towards that overarching goal and purpose. And that helps me sort of thrive, I guess, in my own right. But where I've, where I've applied that in the context of strengths is very much there's been a lot of change. There's been a lot of movement in people and teams, and the sort of the strengths sort of approach has, has helped the sort of with a number of conversations that I've had around where do they want to go next or what do they want to explore next?
Peter Wolfe 32:19
So the context of development in the, the sort of the career, or what role might suit me in this new environment, has been very important. So I've been very supportive and often help teams or individuals around helping them to see where they have truly thrived in the past; not necessarily giving them the "Oh, you must do this role." It's more of that sort of open conversation about, "Well, tell me about what has been a great role for you? What has been your most positive experience? And how does that align with your Top 10? And how might you consider a potential role in that context? So what, what sort of things or activities or engagement would you need to help thrive in the in the changing world?
Peter Wolfe 33:15
So I really do bring the conversation back to that Top 10 again, in terms of bringing it to life and helping individuals, again, understand, appreciate and then use the Naming, Claiming, Aiming concept in the way that works for them. Applying, you know, the sort of the unique, customized approach. But it's, it's very much, I said, put myself in their shoes and think about, "OK, well tell me about those great experiences. How cool would it be to do something like that in the future?" And that's sort of where the conversation goes. And the engagement and excitement is embraced around these changing differing times.
Anne Lingafelter 33:58
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Knowing what you do know now about strengths development after these several years of your working with it, with the ANZ, what do you wish more people at the ANZ knew? What would you, what would you want to share with more people at the ANZ about what you've learned about strengths-based development there?
Peter Wolfe 34:18
Ooh, that's another great question. I, I think we're, we're just not there yet, in terms of really expanding and broadening. I've, you mentioned in the start, I've had the luxury, I suppose, and been very fortunate to engage with a couple of thousand people over the last few years across the bank. I think where I sometimes I think want them to take it further is you know, I have this ambition and this goal and it's my Futuristic playing again, that I'd love to bring ANZ more strengths-based in terms of everyday conversations, just that little bit more.
Peter Wolfe 34:58
But I realized, obviously perhaps I can't do it by myself. And I, I've been very fortunate to see other members of the teams across the bank becoming certified and embracing some of the strengths-based sort of framework. I think it's my time. I don't have enough time, I guess. I've got a day job. And I think, you know, I love the opportunity to talk strengths. And I maybe don't have enough sort of an opportunity to do that. But I know my current team would probably, you know, well, often referred to me as "the strengths guy." But I think, you know, the, the, opportunity for more conversation in the strengths-based framework and language is kind of what I want to do more often.
Peter Wolfe 35:46
And I think, you know, that you can always do more, and you can always grow more, and you can always see things in a different way based on the different team. And that's kind of where I'd like to, to see it. And I'm always excited when another team approaches me and says, "Hey, Pete, can you run a discovery, and then a few follow-up sessions?" And that's just lovely hearing that, because it kind of makes it all worthwhile to see that others are starting to pick up the baton and starting to make that, make that run for it. Which, which is what I always, always, always go towards.
Anne Lingafelter 36:25
Yeah. You know, it's interesting, because, because strength is positive and empowering and, and people like to know what their natural patterns of thinking, feeling and behaving are, and, and others around them, you know, it tends to grab people. They like it, right? And so you can see why people embrace it. But I think for many people, their understanding and appreciation of it stops there, because they feel like it's almost the, you know, the destination unto itself. And, and, and I think, you know, if you were to, you know better than that, and, and I know better than that, because we see, we see, I see with my clients, the way that their culture is changing, the way it is enabling conversations to happen between managers and individual contributors in teams that never happened before.
Anne Lingafelter 37:13
And, and people for the first time, sometimes, in their lives, feeling that people see them clearly and appreciate who they are, and they don't have to be -- act like someone else in order to be valued and appreciated and to contribute. All of those things are, you know, can seriously be life-changing for folks. If you had, you know, all the, all the, the restrictions are off -- all, you know, you had all the resources you needed. If you were, if you were told, "Here you go at ANZ. You can point strengths at anything." Where would you point it?
Peter Wolfe 37:49
Ooh, I would have to --
Anne Lingafelter 37:51
You've won the lottery!
Peter Wolfe 37:53
Wow, here we go. I think --
Anne Lingafelter 37:56
You're Futuristic No. 1, right? So "Here we go!"
Peter Wolfe 37:59
I guess, I guess I'm already there. But no, I think, I think what I, what I can see -- and almost feel and touch -- I think because it's such a large organization and a lot of complexity and all the different teams. And there's a few of my themes probably playing out now as I speak and answer this question. But it's that integration, though, with, with existing ways of working and the existing sort of initiatives that we have. You know, I think it would just enable me to sort of really tap into those different areas. But I'd want to customize, I'd want to sort of adjust, pivot, change, be agile in, in how you can bring that sort of quite personal conversation to life for the individual, but also for the team.
Peter Wolfe 38:44
I think, you know, I'd love for there to be more coaches within ANZ and really build that community within ANZ. And it's certainly growing. And I think they'd love to have that sort of that working more closely, perhaps, with the sort of the learning and development and HR or talent and culture teams, as I referred to them before, to really initiate that enterprisewide embracing of the concept so that it can then filter as part of ongoing conversations or ongoing people initiatives across the year for every team.
Peter Wolfe 39:23
So I think it's, it's very much aligning it with existing. Because I'm not one to sort of tell people how it should be. I'm very one of those individuals that will work with the team we have and work with the frameworks we have to build and grow and enhance that. And I guess how better can you do that without actually focusing in on who we have to start with or what we have to play with to start with? So I think that, that's where I'd go. It would sort of be that more enterprisewide turning ANZ strengths-based, which is one of those sort of Futuristic goals that I have.
Peter Wolfe 40:04
But again, it's a journey, as you said, you know, it's not, it's not something that you click your fingers. It's that cultural transformation again. You can't simply do it, and then it's done. It's that journey, you know, that the, you know, remember the, the Don Clifton sort of research or talking around, you know, it's a lifetime to truly appreciate those talents that you have. You know, you can apply that fantastic sort of statement to everything in anything around the bank, and what, what I'm doing, which is just a small part of it.
Anne Lingafelter 40:41
Yeah. And, you know what I've seen with some of my clients that I, that I found to be super powerful, and it kind of resonates, for me, with your whole best version of yourself attitude at the ANZ is just the ability to realize that, you know, strengths is --understanding your strengths, appreciating your strengths and, and unlocking them and starting to really leverage them -- is a gift and, and you know, will people when they retire, when they go on with their life, will they look back at the ANZ as a place that, that actually changed their life? Their life is better because they worked for the ANZ and had these elements of themselves that, you know, that there was a light that was sort of shone on those, you know. And so they were able to, to acknowledge those.
Anne Lingafelter 41:28
And, and for some of my clients, we've brought strengths into their families. So, so we've done Strengths Based Parenting courses for, for employees, and their, their partners have come along to talk about how they're parenting and how they can be better parents and, and strengths-spot in their children.
Anne Lingafelter 41:45
And, and we've done a course for, or a workshop for their -- them with their partners just on, on, you know, whether they're married, or just, you know, cohabitating or whatever, just being able to appreciate and understand each other and, and start to really understand the filter through which they see the world. So it is really, it can be looking at the whole person and being the best version of themselves, not just when they're at work, but all of the time. Because that more holistic, you know, lens is always going to benefit the organization and the time that the employee is working within those walls.
Peter Wolfe 42:23
Absolutely, completely agree. On a number of occasions, you know, that you have extended beyond the sort of the, the ANZ sort of employees where, where family members and partners and friends have wanted to experience the concept or framework as well. But absolutely, you know, that there really is that opportunity because it then plays into the whole wellbeing as well as clearly then the whole employee experience, the engagement that, that is so important in a place where we spend most of our time. And in, in COVID-19 times, you know, they're obviously very blurred at the moment, particularly down here in Melbourne.
Anne Lingafelter 43:08
Yeah, absolutely. Our thoughts have definitely been with everyone there in Melbourne, and it certainly -- yes, we just keep, you know, I'm sure you have calendars on the wall, and you just mark off them day by day -- one day closer to lockdown being over. So our thoughts are with you guys. Jim, have you got any questions from the from the chat room that people are hearing and want to ask Pete?
Anne Lingafelter 43:32
Yeah, so we actually do. So we have two questions that are kind of opposite of each other. So Justin starts with, he's very interested in the approach you're bringing to strengths to agile teams. What are your thoughts on getting all 3 phases of your approach going before a team starts? Has this been tried?
Peter Wolfe 43:51
Oh, great question, Justin. Not yet, I think, but that is the, is the quick answer. But I think certainly not every team is working within the, I suppose, the agile environment. So there are certainly the opportunities to, to bring the whole strengths conversation into those prior to joining those squads, if you like, or teams. And the nature of I suppose the bank is that, as I said, not everyone works in the agile kind of ways of working. So you can sort of bring that to life in other parts of the, of the bank.
Peter Wolfe 44:34
And I suppose then when you bring the sort of that, that team together who have obviously their knowledge of the strengths approach in that squad, that's the opportunity then you can sort of accelerate I suppose in terms of that true genuine appreciation of, of each other. But I think the size of the bank and I suppose this maybe the small scale that I've got into the sort of the environment so far hasn't really developed that. But I think there's certainly the opportunity to, to explore that, almost as that sort of pre- sort of joining that for the agile squad.
Anne Lingafelter 45:13
Peter, for, for Holly's question, maybe you can flesh that out a little bit. So she's wondering, we've got a few established teams that are running sprints. How do you recommend starting to integrate strengths into an already-existing process?
Peter Wolfe 45:27
So this is certainly what I've done with some of the more recent teams that I've been working with. They already have their sprint cadence -- which is the, obviously, the time that they're allocating to the different periods of work -- it's very much focused around development. And a lot of the conversations in, in agile teams are around, you know, those, the focus on allowing people the opportunity to spend time in development.
Peter Wolfe 45:55
So it's, you can almost bring in the strengths sort of opportunity or framework to the backlog, as I touched on before, where you say, "OK, well, let's -- this sprint, let's try something new. Let's, let's give the team the opportunity to maybe take the assessment, you know, and that way, it won't impact, you know, it's the 45 minutes plus a bit of the online learning module, perhaps, so an hour max over a period of time, you know, it's something new. And there are a lot of great frameworks out there, as we all know, and I think the strengths one is another, obviously, a great example where you can bring it in.
Peter Wolfe 46:35
So, so then in the future sprint, as I said, you can bring in the maybe that, that more, if you have the capacity, the opportunity to actually have those individual conversations. Often, one doesn't, so I then have that team discovery-type focus, which is a sprint or two down the line. But there's no reason why you can't bring it and, as I've seen, into a sort of a team that is already sort of working through whatever they need to focus on as part of their, their sprint.
Anne Lingafelter 47:10
Peter, this is a question Claire used to ask. Claire did these with me before Anne; that was, I think 100 years ago, and the earth was still cooling in those days. But Claire would ask, Any, because you're working with teams so much, any, any tools that you, like, your -- what are your go-to tools, that you, when you start working with teams, what do you go to first or what do you kind of hang your hat on?
Peter Wolfe 47:35
Ah, I do always lead with the, the favorites around things like the Best of Us, the, the Powerful Partnerships, the, the sort of that talent spotting of just what are, what are great experiences? What do they, what do they -- how have you experienced sort of the, the use of strengths within the period of time just gone. But also one, one other thing I do within sort of an agile environment is bring to life -- one of the ceremonies or meetings or aspects is to, to do the retrospective, the retros, as we call it, within the agile environment.
Peter Wolfe 48:20
And what I've been doing most recently is, you know, often the context around those, those meetings are, "Well, what went well? "What, what can we do a little bit better?" In the context of strengths, you can bring to life the, the concept of, you know, people really having a positive experience. You can just do the direct correlation often facilitate the conversation with the team around, "Hey, that went really well. Now, which one of your strengths does that align with?" Or even if it didn't go well, and this is sometimes a more powerful conversation, "OK, so which talents could have helped you there?" Or maybe "What talent that you have in your Top 10 maybe wasn't coming to life as as you would have hoped?" And that's where you get the interesting Aha! moment that is often the case in those retrospectives, as an, as an example.
Peter Wolfe 49:16
But integrating again into existing meetings, just those -- you know, Anne touched on the strengths spotting. You know, just, just call it out. And it just brings a smile to the face to be honest, around, "Oh, yeah!" And it just gives that spark of engagement that helps people go to the next thing.
Anne Lingafelter 49:38
Yeah. I, and I love the question in those circumstances. Who on the team could have helped with that? You know, that just that quick, like, "Oh, yeah, it just didn't work out. Who could have helped?" whether that's that person answering that back or the team -- in the context of the team, for someone to speak up and say, "You know, I could have, I could have helped in that area." Anne, do you want to add anything to that?
Anne Lingafelter 50:01
You know, one of the advantages of our Summit this year going virtual is that the information in the sessions were available for a long time afterwards. And just last night, I was watching the session with Danny Lee, who's a Learning Development Consultant for us. And I don't know if you've seen this one, Peter, if you, you went to the Summit or not, but he talked about taking the Best of Us and having that grid, the quadrant, which we all love, right? Everybody says that's super powerful. But he sort of even maximized it by putting the performance goal in the center.
Anne Lingafelter 50:35
So not just overall life, life with my team, but let's, let's look at the Best of Us quadrant, using -- through the lens of that, that specific performance goal. Maybe that's something you use for your retro sessions, you know, whether it's before, or maybe you need to be having a conversation before, you know, so that you can really set, set one another up with that. And just as an aside, the other element that he covered in a way that I think was better than I've ever heard was the Team Grid sessions, and, and really how to make a team's Team Grid session super powerful for a team. So if you guys haven't listened to that, check it out.
Jim Collison 51:14
Well, for us, they're still available; for everybody else --
Anne Lingafelter 51:17
Oh, right, right, right, everybody else. Well, I'm --
Jim Collison 51:20
90 days is up.
Anne Lingafelter 51:20
-- sure that those folks got, got and took advantage of those --
Jim Collison 51:25
Well, we've done some of those sessions for the Certified Coaches. Some of that exists inside the Learning Series that is there. Some of it also exists on Called to Coach. So, so there's still a lot of that out there. Peter,
Anne Lingafelter 51:36
It's here now.
Anne Lingafelter 51:38
Yeah, right here. We're talking about it right now. I love this question from, from Justin. He says, "Which of your Top 10 is your favorite?" And I would always say: "that you're most successful with"? Which one do you love the most? So you can pick 2. But where do you think, what do you lean on the heaviest? And where do you think you're the most successful?
Peter Wolfe 51:58
It would be my Futuristic, my No. 1, which -- it just happens to be my No. 1. But -- and the reason why I say that is that I, I really enjoy sharing what I can see. I really enjoy, almost as part of every day, helping people, helping teams focus on -- in the context of coaching -- the best they possibly can be, but also in terms of what we're trying to achieve as a team. You know, one of the key components of my role is all about facilitating the team planning, and thinking about, OK, so what are we going to be doing in the next 3 or 4 months? What are we going to be doing in the next year? And I love that! You can probably see my eyes light up; I get really excited about talking about the future.
Peter Wolfe 52:43
So it's the kind of one [the talent theme] that helps me the most, and I enjoy. And I, and I hopefully inspire my colleagues that I work with -- and maybe even the, the folks that have had the opportunity to have learned some of the strengths-based concepts see that as well.
Peter Wolfe 53:03
And the other, the other one for me: Competition. It's my No. 5. Again, I'm living and breathing it through my coaching. I'm comparing people all the time. I'm thinking about, you know, Why do people do things in different ways? And comparing that, within the context of my Individualization as well, which is my No. 2. So maybe I'll go, go with my Top -- my favorite 3. But again, it's -- and that's something that's, that's come through for me. My coaching is, is really very much aligned with my Top 5 and my even Top 10. And I can see it living and breathing every -- almost every day in kind of how I coach, but also my day-to-day in my role.
Anne Lingafelter 53:43
Kind of final question for you from the chat room at this point. By the way, Justin agrees. "You said you have Individualization No. 2." For Marina, it's No. 1. "What's the most impactful use of your Individualization?" I heard you say this, by the way, a few times early in the interview, but what was the most impactful use of Individualization theme when you're working with teams?
Peter Wolfe 54:04
Ah, again, I'm customizing. You know, that, you know, it's the stereotypical "one size does not fit all." You know, in my own team, where there's, there's sort of 3 or 4 different teams or squads in the agile environment, you know, I encourage people to sort of make the agile sort of framework come to life for what works for them. So there is no right or wrong; there is no good or bad. Let's really work on what works for you. So, so my Individualization really keeps me going through that. And, and I deliberately call it out and I say, Hey, guys, my high Individualization is gonna encourage me and drive me to sort of make the best for you guys, and I work with you to help bring to life whatever you need to do. So that's kind of where my, my Individualization kind of leads me, which, which I think is -- it makes me feel good and hopefully the teams as well that I work with.
Anne Lingafelter 55:00
Yeah, I think as a coach, that becomes a very important aspect of making sure that we can drill down to the individual. We know that teams, there's lots of things teams have to do, and they have to just do it. That's part of being on part of a team. And yet, that -- the ability to juxtapose the team with the individual is what makes managers great. That's what makes managers great -- when they can do both. It's not either/or, it's both/and. And so, Anne, why don't we, why don't we thank Peter for coming and bring this thing in for a landing.
Anne Lingafelter 55:32
Yeah, absolutely. We do appreciate your time, Pete. And we'll be very interested to see where you go from here and how your, your own business develops. And we'll have to have you back to talk to us then. Is there anything that you wanted to speak to today that you didn't have a chance to talk about? Any, any questions that I should have asked that I missed?
Peter Wolfe 55:54
Oh, no, it's been a wonderful experience. Thank you so much, Anne and Jim, and obviously, everyone that's been with us virtually as well, live. So for me, it's, it's, you know, I'm living my dream in terms of bringing the sort of strengths-based focus to everything I do, and hopefully, with others that that I come into contact with around me. So, you know, I've really enjoyed the experience. And hopefully, I'll continue to grow and develop and share more broadly. But I'd love to, love to come back again and tell you more about how this continues to grow for me.
Anne Lingafelter 56:29
Yeah. Fantastic. Thanks again.
Peter Wolfe 56:32
Thank you so much.
Jim Collison 56:33
We will look forward to that. I'll have you guys hang tight for me. We'll hold you to it, by the way, we'll bring you back in 3, 4 years from now. And we want to have some great stories. So you might want to write them down and have them ready.
Jim Collison 56:43
With that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantages of all the resources that we do have available at the Gallup Strengths Center. So if you -- did I say "Gallup Strengths Center?" -- now in Gallup Access. It's been, what, a year now? Now in Gallup Access. Head out to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. That oftentimes happens. You know, you have those repeatable processes that, when you're trying to think of something else, it sneaks in there? So gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. All these webcasts are available for you there as well. If you want to find some great resources: gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. Sign in. At the very bottom of the page, there is a sign-up for the CliftonStrengths Community Newsletter. Get on it; every month, we'll send you what's going on in the community. A great way to stay up to date with everything that's going on. If you have questions, comments, some ideas, send us an email: firstname.lastname@example.org. I mentioned this early, but you can join us on Eventbrite. So go to gallup.eventbrite.com. Sign up there, follow us and you'll get a notification whenever we do these live programs. A great way to remember to join us live. You can get them on your calendar and join us out there that way. If you want to join us in our social groups, you can head us out on Facebook: facebook.com/groups/calledtocoach. About 15,000 of you have found us out there, so it's a, it's a good group to be a part of. Or maybe you're not a Facebooker, and right now, it's OK not to be. You could do it on LinkedIn. If you'd like to find us there, search "CliftonStrengths Trained Coaches." Don't have to be a coach; just ask to be invited in and I will let you in there as well. And we'd love to have the conversation. If you found this useful, we'd love to have you share it. Just do that. Just share it. Wherever you have influence, we'd love to have you share it. I want to thank you for joining us today. If you're listening live, thanks for coming out tonight. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.
Peter Wolfe's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Futuristic, Individualization, Relator, Learner and Competition.