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Called to Coach
Thinking Practically: Applying Your Strengths in Everyday Life
Called to Coach

Thinking Practically: Applying Your Strengths in Everyday Life

Webcast Details

  • How do strengths bring people of varied backgrounds and even cultures together?
  • What insights does Practical Strengths bring to using your strengths in parenting?
  • What can coaches do to help their coachees navigate a career path by applying their strengths?

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 10, Episode 29.

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

"Our strengths don't shut off when we leave work. They're with us all the time. And they might show up differently in a professional space than they do in the personal space. ... So being able to help people with that was really important to me." Author and Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach Jo Self has been doing a lot of writing recently about the practical application of strengths. As a guest on Called to Coach, she shares her insights on parenting and careers -- gained during a decade-plus of international life -- as she has penned them in her two Practical Strengths books, with more to come. Join us for this timely webcast.

We keep finding these ways to see how different we are. And ... we're using it to sort of silo ourselves ... And to me, strengths will allow us to celebrate the individual for who they are, while recognizing the power of differences being advantages.

Jo Self, 20:50

The best part of coaching is we often just need confirmation and validation from a perspective outside ourselves.

Jo Self, 35:42

Lacking confidence is purely a symptom of a lack of self-awareness, and then a lack of self-appreciation. So if you have self-awareness with self-appreciation, the confidence just comes naturally.

Jo Self, 38:17

Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on July 7, 2022.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 0:18
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams, and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, we'd love to have your questions there in chat. If you're on our live page, there's a link to that chat right above me. Sign in with your YouTube account. We'd love to have your questions during the program. If you're listening after the fact, you can always send us an email: Don't forget to subscribe to Called to Coach on your favorite podcast app or right there on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Jo Self is my guest today. Her background is diverse, ranging from developing award-winning employee programs for the world's largest fast-food restaurant company, like Yum brands, to starting her own event business. She once moved to -- well, once; hopefully not more than once -- she moved to Peru in 2011. She built a top 50 startup tourism business there. In 2015, everything changed when she looked to Gallup to start her most recent path -- one which is just not a job, but a calling. And Practical Strengths is the biggest part of that journey. She's also a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach. Her Top 5 are Strategic, Activator, Maximizer, Communication and Ideation. Jo, welcome back to Called to Coach!

Jo Self 1:38
Saludos desde Mexico! [Greetings from Mexico!] So great to be here, Jim, I really appreciate it.

Jim Collison 1:43
So great to have you, and great to have you a part of the program here. And good to catch up with you. Let's, let's go back a little bit for you. Just give us, like, not like we've had any big events going on in the world or in your own life. Let's catch people up on you. Give us a little rundown on where you've come from in the last couple years.

Jo Self 2:04
Yeah, so it's been an incredible couple of years. I officially separated and divorced at the end of 2019, just before we went into pandemic and quarantine. I was living in Peru at the time and have to say that the quarantine in Peru was pretty strict. I know there's a couple other countries around the world that had something similar, but we had a pretty strict one for 4 months. And it's one of the things I talk about with my strengths. I have to say, my Strategic and my Futuristic just had to go on hold, they had to go on pause. I had to dial up my Connectedness, my Adaptability and just be OK with where I was, because I couldn't plan anything. And I couldn't, so I could plan for really far things, but I couldn't plan for anything within any short amount of time. And so it was really frustrating for me, I have to say. There, there was a moment where it got pretty grim. But at the end of the day, I just learned to be and did what I could.

Jo Self 3:03
And I'd had the license from Gallup to write Practical Strengths. So I leaned into writing my book. I had time to do it. Got the first one out in March of 2021, which was on parenting. The pandemic also led me down paths I never thought I would take. I worked with a lot of individual coaches, primarily doing branding and business strategy through strengths. And then I got the call because of, one, being bilingual, being able to speak Spanish, and the other being in South America and also being a strengths coach, I got the call to partner on some projects for global corporations. And so I went down a corporate path. And I've been doing that ever since, working for a couple of international consulting agencies. And I love it! I never thought I'd be going down that path, but I absolutely love it. And I have to be grateful for what the pandemic did bring me, you know, on the way. And then the other thing that came along with it is I finally had a chance to leave Peru. The opportunities that came during the pandemic gave me an opportunity to relocate myself for better positioning. Since a lot of my clients are in Mexico and in the U.S., Mexico is a much more central location for me. And that led me to Mexico, and I've been here since February.

Jim Collison 4:16
And of course, that's gone super smooth for you as well.

Jo Self 4:18
Oh, super smooth! Yes, I've been sharing a room, a single room with my son since February. We're still looking for an apartment. Two contracts have fallen through. It is a challenge, to say the least. But I'm really, I don't know, my Positivity is taking over, and I'm being hopeful that in the next 2 weeks, something is going to work out and we will finally have a place to stay.

Jim Collison 4:39
Good. Well, we're hoping for you on that. That's always -- it's, you know, they always say, What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I kind of say, What doesn't kill you makes -- just doesn't kill you. And so, I mean, it still is hard, right?

Jo Self 4:51
I have Strategic No. 1, right? I have Arranger. I'm used to moving things around. You know those little puzzle boards where like you have one square blank, and you have to keep moving everything and around until you make the picture? Everybody's like, "Oh, Jo, you're just on Plan B." And I'm like, "I am on Plan N, and I'm kind of sick of arranging, like, moving the board around, because that's kind of what I feel like I'm in perpetually right now." So I'm looking for a moment to take a pause and just, you know, focus on one area I need to focus on.

Jim Collison 5:18
How often -- you're bilingual, both English and Spanish -- how often in your coaching, do you get to use either/or? If you were to give it a percentage of using them, how would that line up?

Jo Self 5:29
I would say right now, I'm probably 70% English, 30% Spanish. But I have two new clients in Mexico that'll be starting in the next couple of months, so I'll probably go to about 50-50 at that point. But it's definitely open doors for me to be able to do this in both languages.

Jim Collison 5:50
English, English is native for you. Right? That was your first language?

Jo Self 5:53
Yes. Absolutely.

Coaching in Two Languages

Jim Collison 5:54
So how is it, as you coach in both languages, how does that -- do you feel like you have an advantage because you know both? Or how does that work for you?

Jo Self 6:07
You know, it's really interesting. I do have an advantage, obviously. I mean, it opens doors for me that may not open for other people. And I think that's true of any language, whether it be Spanish or French or Swahili. I mean, if you can do this in two languages, you've automatically got, you know, more opportunities out there for you. It's interesting, from a language positioning too, and just how you translate things and trying to make sure that you're doing it, because one thing is a translation that can be kind of a literal translation; another is a translation that is culturally relevant. Right. So that's one of those things that we run into all the time with strengths is trying to find the right words, because sometimes the words that we use in strengths or the translations we have don't necessarily resonate. But that's going to be really difficult to do, because every country is going to have some way they want to say it. It's not -- just because it's Spanish doesn't mean everyone who speaks Spanish says it the same way either. Right. So you run into that. But it's been very helpful to do, and in fact, I certified for Gallup in the very first Spanish certification group in 2015. So I actually certified in Spanish. So that helped me as well.

Jim Collison 7:16
Well, I had found, when I studied German, it actually helped with my English. Like, I never really understood why we did the things that we do in English. Then I studied German and later on would study a little bit of Latin and some Greek when I went to, when I went to school, when I went to college. And understanding those language principles or learning languages, outside of your own native language helped me as I looked back at my own language and go, Oh, that makes sense -- why we do it, why we say the things that we do say. Also, you know, now that we have 7 different languages available for Called to Coach, and listening to those languages and watching the translators, it has come to my, I mean, it's come to my attention just the challenge of those translations. And then, like you said, understanding those concepts in the language. And then Spanish is bigger, is a bigger language than English. Right? There's more Spanish speakers, I think, than there are English speakers. Not by a lot, but --

Jo Self 8:15
It's pretty close. It's pretty close.

Jim Collison 8:16
It's pretty close. But that has dialects all around the world that, you know, you're in Mexico, and, but you came from Peru. You think that would work, but it doesn't.

Jo Self 8:27
You think it would work, but I tell people all the time, I speak Spanish, but I don't speak Mexican. I speak Peruvian. Right. And so I'm learning words all the time. And my son has been hysterical, because he's actually adapted a little bit more quickly. So he throws out Mexican words much more easily than I do, because I'm still very stuck in the Peruvian way of saying things. So yeah, so it lends, but I've always been fascinated by language. Language has just always been something that's fascinated me since I was a little kid. I watched Sesame Street. I mean, from 3 years old, I was obsessed with learning Spanish. Don't know why; don't know where it came from. But I remember "entrada," "salida," and some little cartoon in Sesame Street, and from there, I was hooked.

Jim Collison 9:09
Yeah, yeah, I, listen, I grew up watching the same Sesame Street you did. Didn't have that same effect. And I lived in California. I probably should have learned Spanish in the process. I think the, I've also learned that we do, I think sometimes English speakers think -- or even non-English speakers think we have the strengths language nailed down in English. And we don't, right? There are still nuances to the way these themes work in individuals. You and I were having a preshow conversation, and you were giving me some insight, right? Just, and I was like, Oh, I never thought of it that way. And so it, regardless of the language, the background, the customer, the culture, I think there's importance in having these conversations, right, around what this is -- that it doesn't become an assumption. And this is the hard part culturally is when someone says something that's culturally insensitive to your own culture, and they're outside of that. Oftentimes, they didn't mean to do that. But our reaction is important, right? I mean, you probably see this all the time, the reaction to what's being said?

Jo Self 10:18
Well, and I think, you know, speaking Spanish, there are times when because you speak a language pretty fluently -- I will definitely not say I'm fluent, but I'm professionally fluent, for sure, right? There's some cultural things, but there are cultural nuances to how you say things that I still get caught up in. And I'm still like, Wait, but that's not what that word means, or I don't understand it that way. And it can create conflict. And a really super simple one is in Spanish, you can say "claro," or you can say "por supuesto" for "OK. Sure. OK." And in English, when you're talking to me, and I'm acknowledging what you're saying and sort of going, "Yeah, sure. OK. OK. Yeah, got you," right. Like I'm, "OK. OK." It's, it's just, I agree with you, I got it, I understand you, right. So, because people would often make fun of my r's, I avoided "claro," and I would use "por supuesto." And my ex-husband will always go, "Oh, of course you know everything!" And I was like, "I was just saying, 'I agree with you.'"

Jo Self 11:19
And then he had a conversation with another friend of mine who asked him what the difference was between claro and por supuesto, which, in English, we just learned, both of them meant "OK"; they were the same thing. But claro was like, "OK, I understand you." Por supuesto is like, "Duh! Of course it is!" I'm like, Oh, that explains, so, like, that explains 2 years of misunderstandings, when it could have been cleared up if he had just understood that I don't have those cultural nuances. And he basically knows what it means. And what am I trying to say? But he didn't speak English, so he didn't understand the difference of, you know, how difficult it can be sometimes to manage those nuances. Right?

Jim Collison 11:58
Yeah. Well, you're, I think here in the United States, we're changing cultures -- the work culture is changing. And the Gen Z and millennials are now expecting kind of a new, and I think some of us who are a little bit older are kind of like, Hey, let's get back to work. And there's going to be some conflict there. I think the key to all of this, and we'll, we'll talk about your book here in just a second. But I think the key to all of this is stopping for a second and saying, giving the benefit of the doubt or, or assuming positive intent. And just kind of saying, "Oh, clarify that a little bit for me," and not jumping to conclusions and saying, because I think sometimes we do this, particularly in writing. And it's, and it happens in speaking as well -- is assuming negativity, right? You know, somebody writes something to you in an email, and you're like, They're yelling at me! And you're like, Would they be yelling at you if they were in person right now? Probably not, right. But we always jump to that, to that conclusion.

Jo Self 12:57
Right, because we use our own filters, right, which our strengths do and all those other things. And when it's written, a lot of times when I'm talking about communication in some of my workshops, I'll put up two different Post-It® notes. And one has, it has the same phrase: I will always find you. And one is written with little hearts over the eyes and like little girly, really curly type person. And, like, you think, Oh, I will always find you. Right? Like you read it in your head, it's exactly how you hear it. And the other one has like blood dripping off of it and kind of jagged letters, and like, I will always find you. You know, like, they're the same phrase. Right? But how we read it, you know, so fonts matter, how we say things matter. And I love Brene Brown's, when there's conflict, I love Brene Brown's phrase of "The story I'm telling myself." Because there's a lot of different ways to look at nonviolent communication, but I love the phrase, "The story I'm telling myself" -- this is what happened, and the story I've created about that is this. Am I wrong? Am I off base? Help me clarify. Right? And then the other person can come in, and it kind of takes all of that accusation out of it.

Navigating Cultural Differences

Jim Collison 14:02
Yeah, yeah. I was, I was gonna actually do this towards the end of the program, but Marina brings up this question, which I think is good, as we think about cultures: Can you give an example of a difference in coaching expectations just in the two, you know, in a Latin America or Spanish and English, maybe U.S.; you know those probably two the best. Can you give an example of maybe the difference expectations in those two cultures coaching?

Jo Self 14:28
I think the different, one thing I've noticed about the Latino culture -- and I think it happens in the U.S. too, but obviously, having lived in South America, I'm always struck by it a little bit more -- is one thing I would, I would say is, there's a lot more focus on weakness. They really want to improve whatever is wrong with them. And so it's really, it can be challenging sometimes to embrace that strengths concept and that a weakness is in the strength; that it's not your Bottom 5. You know, one of my first clients in Spanish said "Oh, I think I do up to 23; I guess I just need to work on 24 through 34." And I was like, "Wait -- no, that's, that's not how this works. Hold on, let's go over this," right? He wanted to master all 34. That's not how it works, so let's look at that. There's also a language differ -- whereas Americans are a little bit more receptive to the idea. It can be a little strange for them, because again, we come from sort of a deficit mentality, but it's a little bit easier to embrace, I think.

Jo Self 15:22
And the other one I've noticed is, Americans in general tend to be much more direct, tend to say what they want, tend to be right out there. And in Latin cultures, they tend to speak around things. They don't like to say, "No." But they think "Yes" can be interpreted as "No," as long as you understand why "Yes" meant "No." And, you know, in other cultures, it's really obvious: Like any answer that's not "Yes" is a "No." But in Latin culture, it's not that obvious. And so it can be really challenging sometimes to get straight to the point, to get to the root of something, because there's a lot of sort of, a lot you've got to work around to get there sometimes.

Jim Collison 16:05
Listen, I'm the epitome of the American culture. And I've had friends tell me, "Jim, Jim -- you need to, like, like, ease into this conversation." Don't just, cause, well, and I get so many things going on so fast and so much, I'm just trying to get right to the point.

Jo Self 16:21
Oh, I write an email. It's on my head. I put it down. It goes in email: "Hey, Jim, thanks. Could you send me da-da-da-da-da? Thanks," right. If I do that in Spanish, I have to say, "Hey, Jim, I need you to send me this. Thanks." And then I go back. And I'm like, "Hope this email finds you well. How was your vacation? What did you do for the -- ?" Like, I've got to go back and build the relationship and then go back in. So it's learning those and taking the moment, but I'm 12 years abroad, and I still haven't mastered it. Because it's tough. It's, you know, it's who I am. But I recognize that that's a difference.

Jim Collison 16:52
I think it's good. I think it's good to understand, though, right? I mean, in that. Raquel, who is part of Ynner in Brazil, and I've been doing a lot of work with them lately. And she always begins her emails, you know, I hope you're well. Things, all these flowery, you know, this is the best. And I'm like, Can you just get to the point? Well, it's been funny. So I've been trying to change my emails to her, to start with those same kinds of things. It doesn't take, it's not hard. It doesn't take long. And her response back to me is so much better when I, when I play.

Jo Self 17:23
Relationship is everything in Latin America, right? You would think everyone has high Building Relationships, because they all need that connection first, before you get to business. So --

Jim Collison 17:34
Well, and not right or wrong. Just understanding, right, just understanding what the culture is looking for.

Jo Self 17:40
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Jim Collison 17:42
Marisa Ortiz and I had this great conversation just a couple of weeks ago around this, and it's just got me thinking, you know, more of just, like, you know, I think some people approach it like, No, I don't want to change. I don't think you have to change; I think you just have to be a little bit more accommodating. And maybe that's changing, just by another name, right? But, but --

Jo Self 18:04
Well, and it's not changing, though. And I always tell people what, you know, I look at strengths as, I mean, they're 34 words for me that have incredible power, because there's an intrinsic language built into each strength, an intrinsic motivation, an intrinsic, you know, contribution, value, need, etc. And so when you can take just a second and look at somebody through what their need is, what their motivation is, and you keep in mind that most of us lead with positive intent, that most, you know, and that differences are an advantage. Just because we're going to climb the same mountain doesn't mean we're going to climb it the same way. That's not necessarily a bad thing. One way maybe more treacherous, we don't know. But it's not necessarily bad that we choose a different way to go.

Jo Self 18:45
And so I love being able to lean into this language and say, you know, if you're -- I use Analytical and Empathy, just because it's a really obvious sort of pairing to put. If somebody with Analytical is going to approach somebody by saying, "I think this is going on, I've seen, I, you know, I've researched, I've done this," and someone with Empathy is gonna be, "I feel like everyone's really, you know, resonating different." And Analytical might be like, "I don't care what people are feeling; what do we need?" And Empathy is gonna be like, "How can you not hear what people are feeling? And why are the numbers so important? This is important," right? But if you can understand, you can actually enter the conversation, and Empathy can go, "Hey, I've noticed this kind of feeling. What are you seeing on your side? And what kind of data are you seeing?" right? And you open the pathways for a better dialogue just by using key phrases and key words that the other person is going to respond to. It doesn't change who you are, but it opens the dialogue and expands the filter. Right?

Introducing the Book Series Practical Strengths

Jim Collison 19:40
Yeah, it's just a great reminder. We did not intend to talk about this; this is not in our notes at all. But I appreciate the conversation, because I think as we think about the cultural ramifications of coaching around the world, of doing this in a multicultural perspective, I think these are important reminders to coaches to, you know, to, for those reaching out beyond their own cultures or understanding other cultures, I think it's a good reminder.

Jo Self 20:09
Well, you know, we're, I know we're gonna talk about the book. We're talking about Practical Strengths. My big "why" is that I want to teach strengths as a second language. And so I'm going to put this here because I feel like it's a great place. And for me, the 34 talent themes are 34 words that 7 1/2 billion people on this planet share in some way, shape or form. It is a simple -- not a simple, I mean, it's complex in a way it is. But it's, if we can just understand some basic tenets of 34 words, we can look at each other with greater compassion, we can improve our relationships, we can stop taking things so personally, we can kind of separate ourselves from the social silos we keep creating, I think, that are out there.

Jo Self 20:50
We keep finding these ways to see how different we are. And I'm not like you, and we're using it to sort of silo ourselves, and I feel like we're losing community and losing tribe. And to me, strengths will allow us to celebrate the individual for who they are, while recognizing the power of differences being advantages, right, leaning back on that pillar of strengths, and that we lead with positive intent. And just give us pause to, like you said, take time and look at each other. And so for me, there are 34 words that could change the world if we just, everybody could try to learn some basic version of them, right, and understanding themselves first, because, right, you need to know who you are first, in order to really appreciate somebody else is.

Practical Strengths: Parenting

Jim Collison 21:40
Yeah, no, I love that perspective. I'm gonna bring the book up again on screen. This is really your second of two that you've put together; this one just releasing here this year. How is this different than the first one? And how is it maybe a little bit different than other strengths books that are out there?

Jo Self 22:02
So a big piece of why I've always coached -- language has always been important to me, right. And I've been trying to figure out how to make that part of what I do. And so it's always been a seed that's there. The books, the first one is on parenting. But all of the books in the series are essentially glossaries on how to apply your strengths in practical, everyday ways. It's almost using the wheel of life, which I hadn't really noticed until someone pointed it out to me, but like all the areas of the wheel of life, like, you know, habits and goal setting, and career and family and relationships and -- so all of these are how do we apply our strengths to have positive outcomes in all those areas? And what are some potential watch-outs? What are questions we can ask ourselves to be more intentional about when we're getting into the darker side of our strengths or the less, you know, the negative impact side, you know, that hinder place?

Jo Self 22:58
And I just really wanted something out there because I love what Gallup does, and Gallup has so many amazing tools for people to use. But I kind of felt like it was all really aimed at organization, it was all aimed at leadership, it was all -- and I know that's been expanding over the last couple of years. But going back to when the seed of this was really born, right, is, like, even Strengths Based Parenting was great. But it talked about kids and StrengthsExplorer, like, but I want to know what Activator looks like for me as a parent. Like how do I apply that? Right? So it was really born of just this need for a layman's terms book, to apply this in everyday places of our lives, where people feel like we might struggle and need some help doing it. That it's not, you know, our strengths don't shut off when we leave work. Right. They're with us all the time. And they might show up differently in a professional space than they do in the personal space. I know they do for me sometimes. Right? So being able to help people with that was really important to me. That's the motivation behind this.

Jim Collison 24:01
Love it. Love it. You have a coauthor on this as well. Do you want to talk a little bit about Jennifer's contribution?

Jo Self 24:07
Jennifer was amazing! Yeah, Jennifer Doyle Vancil. She has been an amazing partner. And I will tell you, she is probably one of the best examples of a strengths-based partnership because we share several strengths. But one we share is Maximizer. But I have Maximizer and Activator, and she has Maximizer and Achiever. So when I'm ready to just go, "I'm done. I'm out. I've gone as far as I can," mine's very ROI based. She's like, "No, we gotta go through it one more time and look for the little things." And I'm like, "By all means, go for it. I can't look at it again." Right. And she did. And she found little things we needed to improve. So it was, I'm very lucky that I had her to do that. But also having her with years of experience as a career coach and having worked in the university setting, I had her to support my ideas and to verify that, yes, that's what she'd seen, yes, it resonated with her, helped me with the questions that we came up with. And, and so that's what I'm looking for going forward really with a lot of my books is to create those valuable strategic partnerships where, you know, a lot of it is my thought, but I have a content expert to back me up, help me reshape it, help me make sure that I'm communicating the way I want to. And it really helps.

Jo Self 25:23
On the first, on the first book, Rhonda Rosborough was my content editor with me, and she, I love her as a content editor because she has high Learner. And so she doesn't insult my Maximizer by going, "Why would you say it like that?" Right? She says like, "I'm curious. Why did you say it just like that?" or "What were your, what was your intention about saying it like this?" And so I'm always like, "Oh, thanks!" Right. I like to write once and send it off to someone else. And then I will go back. But my Maximizer does not work on a perfectionist level like some others do. Because my Activator is just ready to keep going. So having a partner is really invaluable to me. It's absolutely necessary.

Jim Collison 26:04
You've, the second book has been out since May. The first book was, was released in 2021. What have you learned? What kind of feedback have you gotten from people on these? Do you get, one, do you get feedback, and what have you learned through the process?

Jo Self 26:19
I do get feedback. You know, the Parenting book, I will say, that was a very Activator launch. I got it out there; I was just happy to get it done. And I did almost no marketing behind it. I didn't really try to push it. So it had great sales, you know, the first month or so, and then it just kind of went down and I left it. And I, obviously I was moving to another country and doing other things. And so I just didn't do it. I really decided this year that Practical Strengths is where I need to focus. And so I got very serious about writing the career book with Jennifer and making sure we were going to get that out. So we got that out in May, and I've already outsold by far what I sold on the Parenting. And people have gone back and bought the Parenting book, now, now that the Career Success book is out there.

Practical Strengths: Career Success

Jo Self 27:05
And I will say I'm really, I'm very, very proud of the Career Success book, because it really has several applications. It's not just for people looking for a job. It's great for college students who are trying to figure out career trajectory and what they need, right? They might have high Relationship Building skills but want to be a mechanical engineer. Well, you can do both of those things. It's just what area of mechanical engineering are you going to want to focus on? Right? What areas or opportunities are going to allow you to be part of a team or build relationships or, right, and use both those skill sets. So I think that's been really helpful. It's actually become a management resource for a lot of people. With my corporate clients and a couple of other people, we're working on revising it only slightly to make it a manager's resource, so that they can help manage their career development of their teams and how people are progressing throughout their career. So it just has a multitude of applications.

Jo Self 28:00
And I've gotten a lot of really good feedback. And I think, I think my favorite feedback so far is honestly a very good friend of mine who knows her strengths, but she is not in the strengths world. She doesn't go back and look at it every day. And, you know, she only knows about it, because I asked her to do it. And she just recently had to apply for a job. And I said, "Well, you know, get the book. Look at your talent and everything." And she said, "You know what? It really helped me reshape my answers and do what I was saying. And it also confirmed that I was on the right track." She said that it was really easy to read. And that was what was really important to me is that these books are not just for people who are strengths literate; that someone who has recently discovered their strengths can still find this really helpful in a practical way. Right?

Jim Collison 28:46
Sure. No, that's great. And so, for our coaches, because most of the folks who listen to Called to Coach are Certified Coaches -- not all, not all. And if you're not, that's OK. We can get you certified. Send us an email: But what would be your advice, because we see this in our social communities a lot -- this conversation about careers. Has -- this is my Top 5; what career should I be in? As you think about a coach using this book as a resource, How would you encourage them to use your tool as a resource?

Jo Self 29:20
Well, I think it's really important because, like I said, and this is an actual client that I had, was the son of a client of mine who had 4 Relationship Building talents in their Top 5. And throughout high school had been a mentor, you know, and guided, you know, younger students and had been involved in all kinds of committees and teams and doing all these things, but really wanted to be a mechanical engineer. And so being able to sit down and say, He can do that, but this is what he needs to look for. So the book is broken down into 4 very important categories. It's still follows, you know, there's sort of a Twitter statement that says, You thrive in this type of environment or you need to find these things, right, so just a quick statement. We've got Gallup's definition. We have 4, about 4 things for you to celebrate; 4 questions to help you evaluate when you might be getting onto the raw side; and then there's 4 categories, which is, What to look for, How to look for it, What to communicate and then How to be successful the first days on the job. So How to succeed. And it's really great, because you can have a role in mind, but you want to make sure you're going down the right path.

Jo Self 30:31
So What to look for. If you have high Empathy, you need to be in a place where emotions are acceptable, where people can express themselves, where you're able to possibly help people, where there's a more team and convivial environment. If you have high Analytical, then you want something where you're going to have an opportunity to really prove yourself through data and proof and be practical and have an application and be moving forward, right, with what you're doing. And so it's important to that. And then How to look -- a great thing for coaches. And this is something Jennifer really presses, and she just actually piloted a program with University, I think, with University of Colorado. If I said that wrong, please correct me, Jennifer. She'll let me know; she'll let me know. It was a university in Colorado is her university. But she piloted a program yesterday with career coaches. And one of the things that really struck with them was the How to search. Because me with Strategic, Activator, Woo, Communication, I'm going to search very differently than someone with high Intellection, Deliberative, Restorative, right? And so I'm trying to -- oops, thank you, Jennifer! Sorry, Colorado State. I knew I said it wrong as soon as I said it.

Jo Self 31:44
So they were like, Oh, you know, I'm coaching people. And we do that, right, we coach people the way we would do something sometimes. And we don't mean to, but to be really sensitive about something that you do. And so being able to have that little paragraph in front of you to help you understand how they're going to receive, and how they're going to succeed, is really helpful for that searching piece. Then How to communicate is really good too, because it's how to, how to communicate those values that your strengths bring to the table and your cover letter, your resume, in the interview process, what are some tips and tricks? And then How to succeed -- it's how to start building your environment in a positive way on your first days on the job. What to watch out, a little bit of what to watch out for, but also how to really make the most of your talents and let them shine. And then there's 4 coaching questions for each talent, one for each category, for anybody to sort of look at and reflect as they're building it out.

Jim Collison 32:39
Jo, for that --

Jo Self 32:40
And I've had a lot of managers, you know, sorry --

Jim Collison 32:43
No, there's a little latency, but keep --

Coaching and the Pursuit of a Career Path

Jo Self 32:44
I was just gonna say, I've had a lot of managers tell me that, I've just had a lot of managers tell me that they've also used it for career development. It helps them ask better coaching questions; it helps them understand the needs of theirs, their employees from a different perspective other than just asking the questions. It gives them questions to ask. So it's been really powerful in that aspect as well. So that's what I said, it's just as good for job search as it is for career development and career paths when you're already in the job.

Jim Collison 33:08
So if, if we had an individual who's had you know, they've taken strengths, and they're asking that question of What should I do? Or what kind of career should I go into? Will it, will it answer that question, or do they need some additional stuff as well?

Jo Self 33:23
I think additional things are necessary, because obviously you need to understand your skills. You need to know what you like to do, what you're good at doing, what is your skill set? And so I do think other, you know, one of the assessments I lean into is Birkman assessment; I really like the Birkman assessment when it comes to career development and career decisions. Career coaches out there will have other ones, but that was one that really resonated with me, when I was in a career shift many years ago. And it was very validating. But it's also one of those things that I think we forget how important it is to know how we're going to show up in the job. So we always say, It's not what you do, it's how you do it. Right. And that is very true. But it's also what kind of environment do you need? What kind of environment is going to encourage you, to feed you, to help you keep wanting to show up? And so I think it's just as important to know what you want to do in the role.

Jo Self 34:19
But I think when you look at strengths, it's going to give you more of this, What's the environment you need? What are the kind of people you need around you? How are you going to feel when you're there? Right? Some people might be more geared towards service-oriented positions or service-oriented organizations, right, just because of the combination of the talents they have; somebody else might be better at a startup or in a consulting position. I had one, I had one person I was working with a couple years ago, and this was in Latin America, and he'd had his strengths, and he saw a couple things out there. He said, "You know, I just want to talk to you." He said, "Everyone says I keep flipping from job to job, and I can't focus and I can't concentrate, and I just need to pick something." And I said, "Have you been happy with everything you've done?" He said, "Oh, I've loved everything I've done." I said, "Would you do it differently, regardless of what people say, would you do differently?" He said, "No! Oh my gosh, I've learned so much. And I've done this." And I went, "So be a consultant." He's like, "No, that's what I've always wanted to be. But people think I'm crazy." And I said, "But you're built for it, right? Like everything you've done has led you up to this. Your strengths support you in that. Now, you might need to focus being a consultant in a particular area that really particularly moves you. Again, you might be for tech industry, you might be for startups, you might be for that. But consulting is really going to feed you and keep you going."

Jo Self 35:32
And he wrote me after that, and he said, You know, I can't believe you confirmed what I've always known but been too afraid to do. And I said, Well, I think that's the best part of coaching is we often just need confirmation and validation from a perspective outside ourselves. Right, we, we usually internally kind of know, but we don't have the ability to see it. I even tell people all the time, I said, it's like I'm in the middle of a 1,000-piece jigsaw puzzle. I can get the side pieces together. But the rest of it's just a jumble. And I'm kind of standing in the middle of it, and the coach is the person who has the box top and can kind of help you. OK, let's group this together. What do you see here? How are you doing this? Now it all makes sense, right?

Jim Collison 36:17
Yeah. And sometimes we need to be challenged in the process. It's not always about, about affirmation. Sometimes we need to be challenged in our assumptions, right, to be like, Hey, you know, have you really thought all the way through this? Are you -- cause I think sometimes, and especially in the career space, we may have family legacy that we get locked into or a cultural expectation that we get locked into, right. And we think, Oh, I have to do this. And you could challenge that. Just because your dad was a doctor doesn't necessarily mean you need to be a -- or your mom was a doctor, right? One of those kinds of things.

Jo Self 36:57
Well, and we always talk about the "shoulds," right, that we always feel like we have these "shoulds" that we have to do, much to what you're talking about right now. And that "should" is often from a loving perspective -- like you said, cultural, familial legacy. Your family wants the best for you; they're trying to guide you. Your teachers want the best for you. But they're all doing it from sort of their filter and what they think is best for you. It comes from love most of the time, right? But because of our respect for them, our love for them, we go, Hey, OK, I'll do that. But inside, we kind of go, It's not quite right. Like, I can do it, but something's off, right? Like, something's a little bit off. And so once you know your strengths, you may still be able to go in that direction, but you're going to do it your way. And that, the other "should" is that you admire someone so much that you think, I'm going to do it just like them. I'm going to be who they are. Again, a positively motivated "should." But it comes from the wrong space. Right?

Jo Self 37:54
So once we can recognize who we are and what we really need -- when I do my Language of You program, the most common comments I hear is, "I finally feel like I have permission to be me." And I think that's mostly what most of us want. I don't think we lack confidence. I think lacking confidence is purely a symptom of a lack of self-awareness, and then a lack of self-appreciation. Right? So if you have self-awareness with self-appreciation, the confidence just comes naturally. And that's where I think some people can feel very self-aware, but they don't really appreciate what they know about themselves. They don't see the positive side of it. Right? And so when you can reframe things for them, they go, Oh, that really is valuable. Maybe I should do more of that. Right?

Jim Collison 38:48
Some, sometimes they haven't seen good positive examples of that in their own life. Right. They haven't had folks around them that have been able to do that for them as well. And so it's, they don't see it, because they don't, they've never been taught how to see it. And so a great opportunity as coaches to see that. I want to talk about the future here in just a second, but what's the best way, if I wanted to acquire either one of these books, easy in the U.S. on Amazon. But what's the, what's the best and easiest way to acquire these books?

Jo Self 39:21
They are only available on Amazon, and they are available in 11 countries maybe? So you can buy it on You can buy it on You can buy it in India, so it is readily available in other countries. I've just noticed something, and this is something I have to figure out. Jennifer was just trying to buy it when she was in Spain, and she was limited to only being able to buy 3 copies of the hard version. And so for some reason, certain countries seem to have limitations on how many you can buy. I'm not sure why; I didn't set anything up that way. So I'm trying to figure that out to remove those limitations, because there have been times people have wanted to buy them for a group or, you know, there's universities that have looked at buying these for their students as they're taking them through their already-built strengths program for career development. So I need -- in the U.S., it's not a problem, but we did discover that when she was in Spain trying to buy it.

Jim Collison 40:16
Books are, since I've been working at Gallup and watching our book -- I don't have anything to do with our books or the way we do books at Gallup. But it's, it's a, it's a global challenge to get copies of books around the world in people's hands where they want them. And it's just hard. It's just hard work. I think that those barriers will come down, as we continue to do what we do with technology here in the future, but it always is difficult. And so in the U.S. store, anyways, Practical Strengths is actually its own page on Amazon, where you can see both books on that page. They do a nice job of doing that as well.

Jo Self 40:52
And as the series builds out, those books will be added to the series. So they are actually listed as a series. Yeah.

Jim Collison 40:57
That's awesome. Listen, I want to encourage you too, the, Scott Wright, who is our licensing kind of guru at Gallup, pinged me when your book was launching, and he just, Hey, I want to let you know it's launching. And he just had some great words to say about you and your partnership with Gallup in doing this. This is not an easy thing. These --writing books is hard. Writing books where you're "constrained," I'm putting that in air quotes for those that are listening to it, right. You've got a strengths framework to work within. There's the licensing bit with us to get that done. But you're, you're licensed with us. This is a licensed book, which means we've, we've gone through it, and we're OK with it. But I just wanted to say thank you for doing -- it's not an easy task to do. I recognize that. Some people have come to me and said, "This is not easy." And I go, "Yeah, I know. I know it's not easy." So thank you. Thank you for doing that.

Jo Self 41:51
I was so grateful to receive the license. I know it can be challenging. And so I just have to say how grateful I was to even receive the license, because it's a nerve-wracking process.

Jim Collison 42:02
It's not easy.

Jo Self 42:03
It's not just like, Hey, Gallup, I want to write a book! And you go, sounds good. Go for it! You know, give us some money, and we'll do it. No, it's, it's a, it's quite a vetting process. And so it was, it was a little bit nerve-wracking, but I was over the moon when, when I got the opportunity. And this is just, like I said, it's not a job; it's a calling. And this, specifically, with Practical Strengths is kind of why I feel like I'm here.

Practical Strengths: Next Books in the Series

Jim Collison 42:26
Well, great job. It's not easy. Great job. To hear that from Scott means a lot. So it was like, Oh, wow, awesome. So we wanted to make sure we celebrated that publicly, so everybody knew that as well. And thanks for being a great partner. OK. Lisa asks the next logical question, which I was getting to: What's next? So Parenting, successful career -- Career Success? What are you thinking, if you can talk about it?

Jo Self 42:52
The next book is actually going to be on Communication. And so it's really going to hit how our strengths affect the ways we communicate. And so I'm breaking down a little bit of that structure right now. I've got it mostly, but we're going to look at, we're actually going to look at the domains first, as a broad brush stroke. And there's some material that was out there from Jennifer Miller that I'm basing some of this on; Mary Sue Ingram has also been incredibly kind to share some materials with me from which I can build. I've been very lucky with partners out there in the strengths world who've been willing to share some resources that allow me to build my books as well. And so we're gonna look at the domains first, and really look at like, so Executors, you know, people who have high in Executing, they show up, you know, this is sort of their demeanor. This is how they show up. This is what we can expect from them, this is what kind of is.

Jo Self 43:45
And then these are things, this is sort of a style that they communicate in, right. Like, these are bullet-type, bullet-point communication, those kinds of things. And then we're gonna look at, you know, possible questions or body language you're gonna see from these people. What's gonna, you know, what's going to possibly appear? And then we're going to give some little tips, strength by strength, as well, with particularities for each strength underneath the domain. So it's gonna have a little bit of a different structure, but not too much. They're all going to follow roughly the same formula. So Communication is next, and, fingers crossed, that will be October 7, because I'm always looking to launch things on the 7th, which --

Jim Collison 44:19
Wow! That's fast!

Jo Self 44:20
Thanks for being 7/7 for the Called to Coach; that was really super meaningful. So yeah, we're trying for October for that one. In the meantime, I'm working on the overall Practical Strengths book, which is literally titled Practical Strengths: 34 Words That Can Change the World. And it's my "why" behind this. We're including case studies like Leadership Rhode Island and like, Children's Paradise Montessori in the Philippines. We've got a few, and we're looking at family. Again, we're looking at mostly practical ways strengths have been applied and built in to places to kind of give people some inspiration of how they can do this for themselves. So I'm building that at the moment. That'll probably take a little longer than I thought, because, of course, my Maximizer is wanting it to be better and better, and I'm building it. So it'll probably be next year before it comes out. Also depending on other people to share their stories with me and making sure we have time for them to contribute -- another challenge of book writing. But then after Communication, we're gonna be doing, next year I will release Relationships. And then Habits and Goal Setting will be for next year. Which, I always joke that that's the one that makes my Activator sweat. Because if you say the word "goals" or "habits," I immediately like just reject anything you have to say.

Jim Collison 45:37
Instant like No. Not, not -- tell me more about Relationships. What are you hoping, what will that one be about?

Jo Self 45:45
Relationships is actually going to look at platonic, professional and romantic relationships, because I think we apply our strengths a little bit differently in each space, but we have relationships with everyone we come in contact with. So I don't want to do it just about marriage; I want to look at it from a slightly broader perspective, but it'll be platonic, professional and in romantic.

Jim Collison 46:07
I do like the approach that we're not assuming marriage in this, because I think sometimes we do. And in the past, we have. I mean, there's been folks who have. And that's, that's an appropriate place. But I love this idea, because everybody has relationships, I hope.

Jo Self 46:24
I mean, unless you're a hermit, yes, most of us have relationships with someone somewhere.

Jim Collison 46:28
And it's OK if you are; it's OK if you're a hermit. But for the rest of us, for the rest of us, I think it's an important, I mean, certainly, we spend a lot of time in our family talking about these themes in the context of our family relationship. It's the kids and how our kids interact with each other and how they see their place in the family through that. And so it's, it's, I think it's all good. So Relationships and Habits, right?

Jo Self 46:57
Yeah, Habits and Goal Setting.

Jim Collison 46:59
That's awesome!

Jo Self 46:59
And I think that's important, because people are always like, I don't have any Executing talents. And I'm like, Well, you get things done; you just have a different motivation behind it. So we want to kind of show the semantics of habits and goal setting, because if you tell me habits, like I said, that's a four-letter word in my book if you tell me I need to --but if you tell me to create a ritual, I am 100% in, right? Like, so, but it's the same thing, right? It's just --

Jim Collison 47:23
Sort of, yes.

Jo Self 47:24
What you call it for me. I mean, you can find nuances, but to me, they're kind of all the same thing. It's just whatever feels comfortable for you, right. And so I want to kind of get past this, that you have to have high Executing to be a goal-setter, right? You can have goals and have habits; in relationships, you're just going to go about it a different way and have different needs on how you're going to get things accomplished. So we're going to explore that. And Communication and Habits and Goal Setting, Rachel Montverdi is going to be my partner on that one. She has a company called Strengths, Habits and Leadership. So habits is really down her alley, but she spends so much time in the communication space, too. So she's my content expert and editor for Communication.

Jo Self 48:04
Relationships, I don't have anyone, so if someone's interested, I'm happy to open that door and talk, because I don't have anyone specializing in that space yet. And then the other books that are going to come down the line, in no particular order, we're going to look at -- I'm trying to debate on the title of this one, so if anyone wants to help me with it -- I want to look at Spirituality and Faith. And not from a religious perspective, but those core values and how we sort of move in the world from that philosophical perspective. So that's one. We're going to do Health and Fitness. And am I missing one? Was that 8 yet?

Jim Collison 48:43
You're getting close.

Jo Self 48:45
I'm getting close. Oh, Hobbies and Recreation. Hobbies and Recreation, or Recreation and Free Time, mostly because I had a really weird awareness when I was playing Candy Crush one day that I'm like, this really feeds my Strategic and my Activator. And I noticed both of them, right, like, as they show up. My Activator goes in and starts moving things around without even knowing what I'm supposed to be solving for. Right? But my Strategic says, Wait a minute! We've got a plan here. And then I start moving. So --

Jim Collison 49:12
No, right on. I think, I think, I think hobbies have a big, are big clues into our, into our psyche, into our success factors. I think, because we choose them, I think in a lot of cases, they're better indicators of future success than anything, right. And so I think a good look at hobbies, I think sometimes we brush them off as, Oh, that's what I just do for fun. And that's right.

Jo Self 49:40
Yeah, exactly. But what are your strengths that are being fed, right, that are being nurtured when you do that?

Licensing With Gallup

Jim Collison 49:45
Yeah, exactly. Couple of questions on the way out here, just as we think about it. Marina asks, As you think about partnering with us in this, any quick advice you'd have? So if someone's got a book in their head, and they're thinking about doing this -- and you've done it twice now, so we know you're successful. What kind of advice would you give on, on licensing with us?

Jo Self 50:05
So the licensing process with Gallup, the way I would explain it at this point is, you need to have a very good plan or a very good idea of why you are doing what you're doing, and what value it is going to add to the Gallup strengths world. And I know there are some careful factors, because I've had people call me and ask me, like, Hey, I've got this idea for a book. Do you think Gallup would go for it? Or what do I need to do to modify it? And, you know, it really has to be very strengths-focused. It has to have more of a global purpose. It has to fit the vision of where Gallup wants to grow. There were a lot of questions that, I'll be very honest, I do have Command, so I like maybe forgiveness over asking permission some things. But they ask you for your strategic plan, your marketing plan, how many books do you plan to sell? What are you going to do? And I said, my, like my Strategic can't even consider these questions until I know I have the license. And then I'm glad to give you this information. But like, I need to know that it's a possibility for really, to invest in that.

Jo Self 51:07
But I did have a plan. I had to submit writing samples. So I admitted, for 4 different themes. I did 4 different talents, one for each for 4 different themes. And, and it was about a 6-week process to go through, because I know there's a small committee that meets from time to time to do it. But really, just be very aware of why you want to do it, what you want to do and how it contributes to Gallup's vision for going forward.

Jim Collison 51:37
Good, good advice. There's no one way, by the way, to get it done. I've watched dozens of these go through the process. And they're all a little bit different, kind of based on what you're trying to do. So contact us -- if you're, if you're interested, or you've got more questions on this, send us an email: And we'll get Scott back on the phone with you to talk about that. There's lots of nuances to it. And I don't want to take any, I don't want to take too much of your time. There was a comment in here, from, oh, from Donna, who said, You might want to include service with hobbies and volunteering or philanthropy or some of those ideas or concepts?

Jo Self 52:20
I can appreciate that. And that might even come into the Spirituality and Faith side. Like I said, I haven't thought through the structure on those quite as much. I do know the overall topics. But I can certainly appreciate service and hobbies. And I know a lot of people ask me for sort of more specific things like selling -- they get more into more leadership type. And I'm like, No, that's Gallup's space. I'm staying out of Gallup's space, right? Like I'm trying to do things that partner with and support, without trying to compete in the space, if that makes any sense, right? Like, there's, there's plenty of books out there. So, it's a dance. But it's also a choice. You're like, you could do one of these for teachers. I'm like, well, the Parenting one actually works really well for teachers. If you are a caregiver of children are around children all day long, you can easily use that Parenting book as a teacher or someone who is around children and working with children frequently, because the same types of ideas apply. Right? They're actually pretty versatile when you really look at them from that perspective.

Jim Collison 53:18
Yeah, good, anything, going into the third book, anything you're gonna do differently that you learned about yourself? Because I'm sure each time you do this, you learn something new. You gonna do anything different? Or are you doing anything different, because you're writing it right now.

Jo Self 53:34
I'm proud of it. Yeah, I am writing it right now. I am definitely being more intentional about having the right strategic partners for each of those books, I think having the, having a content expert, having someone who has spent time in the space, whereas I am doing this from a much sort of higher level in my understanding of strengths in what I've seen, without necessarily expertise in the area, which is one of the reasons that kept me from doing these books for a long time. Because I wrote a parenting program. I have an entire 12-week parenting program, but I, I have taught other coaches how to do it, but I don't do it because I'm not a parenting expert. Right. And so I stay out of that space. But I do know the language. And so when I really, in one of my coaching sessions, when I said, I don't know parenting, but I do know communication, it was like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!

Jim Collison 54:29
Ah, there you go.

Jo Self 54:30
That's how I can approach it. But I can support coaches in those spaces by having stronger materials, by having resources, by providing them with tools, in order to make their coaching better and more effective.

Jim Collison 54:45
Yeah, well, we, Gallup takes a similar approach. We try not to write books on things we're not experts on. We get a lot of pressure, like, a lot of folks, "Hey, you should write a book on ..." And sometimes we're like, You know, we're, we, we're not an expert on this. So I always appreciate that kind of point of view. Last question: Is there a podcast around these books? Have you done, have you created any kind of podcasts around them?

Jo Self 55:06
So there is a podcast in the works. I do have a podcast out there already. I did over, I did over 700 one-minute podcasts on strengths. I did one-minute briefings. They're out there on Podbean: I'm working on doing a file right now where it will be a searchable file for people that need one minute on strengths. So you can use it for teams or fights and stuff. Again, something I put out there, did 2 years' worth of one-minute podcasts, have 500 pages written on strengths, and I've done almost nothing with it. So yes, that is out there. I am working on a Practical Strengths channel for YouTube and will start actually bringing the people that share their anecdotes in the books, I'll actually be bringing them on to talk to them and their experience in ... and strengths. So it is in the works. I hope to start by the end of this year; that might be ambitious, but definitely by the beginning of next year, that will be -- I need an apartment first.

Jim Collison 56:08
Yeah, to -- get situated. Don't, don't try to start that now. But get situated. This kind of, the content you're making is just perfect for podcasting, and to take the words on the page and blow them out into real-world examples and interview people who are using it, you know, it's just a great, I think it's just a great opportunity to, to get talking about it as well.

Jo Self 56:32
Great! I'll be sending you an email!

Jim Collison 56:35
There, there you go. Well, Jo, thank you for being on today. And congratulations on the books. And it's great to hear of all the things that are coming up here in the future. We're excited for you and, and with you. I think you can see from the comments that are coming in to the, to the chat that, that you spoke to some folks today. So appreciate your time.

Jo Self 56:58
Yeah, thank you so much, Jim. I really appreciate the time. And thank you to everybody who tuned in live to listen. Really appreciate that.

Jim Collison 57:05
Jo, you hang on tight for me and, while I'm wrapping up, chat room, you can express your appreciation for Jo in the chat. So why don't you guys do that while I'm wrapping up, because you guys have heard this 1,000 times. We want to remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we do have available in Gallup Access. Head out to You can sign in there for coaching, master coaching or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach like Jo is, you can send us an email: We'll get back with you with some more information. Find us in our Facebook groups, lots of conversation going on there: -- all one word: calledtocoach -- is a great way to find it there. And we want to thank you for listening today. And appreciate you guys being out there. Appreciate everybody out there who's live and, with your questions. We'll be back with more of these -- Spanish tomorrow. Jo, maybe you can hang out in the chat room tomorrow and interact with us, as we're doing the Spanish podcast. For those who listened live, thanks for coming out. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Jo Self's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Strategic, Activator, Maximizer, Communication and Ideation.

Learn more about using CliftonStrengths to help yourself and others succeed:

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