Current Workforce Challenges: Burnout

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 10, Episode 33.

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

Have you felt burned out during the pandemic? You're not alone. Workers have been adjusting to a remote work life and changed expectations -- and then, in some cases, back to a hybrid or in-the-office work life -- for more than 2 years now. What are some signs of burnout, and how do you successfully tackle it as a manager, as a coach, or in your own life? Dr. Jaclynn Robinson joins the webcast to share what burnout involves and what managers, coaches and employees can do about it -- including how underusing your strengths can be a contributing factor. Join us for a chat about burnout, and discover how to move toward engagement and thriving wellbeing at work.

We ... at Gallup [did] some recent research on managers, and found that only one in four strongly agrees that they have a great work-life balance. So burnout and wellbeing are pretty tethered together at this point.

Jaclynn Robinson, 2:28

Get role clarity from your manager, to make sure that you know what you should be focused on and what excellence looks like in the role.

Jaclynn Robinson, 13:09

Having an "accountabilibuddy," ... they can be so helpful, and they oftentimes see what we can't. ... If we're burned out, sometimes they remember the passions and interests we have and can kind of fan those flames again of interest.

Jaclynn Robinson, 16:45

Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on August 23, 2022.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 0:19
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, and you don't see the chat room, there's a link right above me to it. Love to click in that, take your questions live and in chat or in YouTube. Right after the fact, you can always send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe to Called to Coach on your favorite podcast app or right there on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Dr. Jaclynn Robinson is our host today. She works as a Learning and Development Consultant with Gallup and is the host of Season 1 of the new CliftonStrengths Podcast, which has done really well. Congratulations on that, Jaclynn. Great to see you. Welcome back to Called to Coach!

Jaclynn Robinson 1:05
Thank you! I feel like it's been so long.

What's the Current Understanding About Workplace Burnout?

Jim Collison 1:08
Well, the last time I saw, it's been a while. We batch recorded all Season 1 of the CliftonStrengths Podcast and then life happens, we're back together. We're in Part 1 of a 3-part series. We'll, if you're listening to this on YouTube or as part of the podcast, there'll be two other episodes around these kinds of the difficulties we're having in the workplace. We're following up on this. I think a lot of folks, I mean, there's been a lot, we spent a lot of time talking about this during the pandemic. But as we're kind of on the backside of that, whatever that means, we're still kind of having these discussions. And today's discussion is around burnout and kind of where we are today. I think we know a lot more today than we knew 2 or even a year ago. Jaclynn, give us some quick touchpoints on, on what you're hearing and what you're seeing. Let's set the stage for this idea of burnout.

Jaclynn Robinson 2:01
Yes. So if we think about burnout, back in 2019, even pre-COVID, 76% of individuals, employees, were saying they felt burned out at least sometimes at work. Then COVID hit. And we had all the social and racial justice movements, etcetera, etcetera, and so that's probably amplified. Now, we're hearing it framed up as "quiet quitting." We actually did at Gallup do some recent research on managers, and found that one in four, only one in four strongly agrees that they have a great work-life balance. So burnout and wellbeing are pretty tethered together at this point.

Jim Collison 2:46
Yeah, I think, you and I were chatting a little bit in preshow about this. And I think we're in this perfect storm, where, as we're pulling out of this, we have a generation, a work culture generation that, I would say we've overpromised to in a lot of ways, right? We spent a lot of time saying, Go to college. Get a, get a degree, you're going to, like your career will be --

Jaclynn Robinson 3:08
You're gonna thrive!

Jim Collison 3:09
It'll be easy street, you know, it'll, this will, and, and I think about all the things that have happened. Now, when I go talk to college students, and I just look in their eyes, I'm like, Man, this has been difficult. And it has. Like, the college experience was tough. And, and even for the new workforce, as we think about the, anybody who's started, has a new career in the last 5 years, it has been a lot of turmoil, right? And it's, the rug's kind of been pulled out from underneath them, right. So it's, I think we're dealing with a lot of that, as well as some mis-, maybe some mis-set expectations, some mis-set cultural expectations. OK, but let me preface that with this, and maybe you can talk a little bit about this. That comes from a very Western, American cultural -- what I just said is very American, it's very Western, very cultural. But we are hearing inklings of burnout around the world. As you're, in the work that you're doing and thinking, what else are you hearing? Or what are our counterparts, and certainly, you can put some, if you're listening to this outside the United States, you can throw some comments in chat as well. But what else are you hearing from outside the United States?

Jaclynn Robinson 4:16
I think there's probably, when we look at the contributing factors to burnout in the workplace, those that are even international are, are saying the same thing, whenever we're looking at engagement data or talking with them about wellbeing, because they're burned out. But what we're finding in terms of primary causes is that it's how people are managed and how they experience work. And so across the world, if people have a lack of communication, if they feel like their work is a pressure cooker because they have too much on their plate, and they might not have clarity on what their role or responsibility should be, especially if they're short staffed, and now they're taking on the work of more individuals and for how long are they doing that? Those have been some hot topics for workplaces.

Jaclynn Robinson 5:00
And then if they feel like there's some unfair treatment in the workplace or that they don't feel cared for in the workplace, that's all contributing to their burnout. So, yeah, I would say, even though burnout to us might feel different, because the Western world, we love working 40 to 60 hours a week. I say "love" -- all of us are looking, wanting that 6-week vacation like they have in Europe. But when we look at the actual drivers of burnout, that's seen and heard across the world.

Jim Collison 5:33
I think we have some recent numbers from Europe that are saying some of, and help me with the, the actual pieces, but we're seeing very, very low engagement in, at work and very, very high wellbeing from a, from a personalized standpoint. And so they're, they're struggling to get that, to get that, that mix. Do you know, can you speak any more on that, on that piece? That was pretty recent.

Jaclynn Robinson 6:04
Yeah, I, and when I look at what we've been doing at Gallup, and I look at other articles, for sure, people are starting to really realign themselves with what's purposeful. And oftentimes, that might be outside of the workplace, because the pandemic really had people stop and think about what their values are, the family and friends they have in their social network. And if the work, the work life isn't offering that, then where can they get that outside of work? I think that's where we're seeing some of the "quiet quitting" that we keep hearing too -- which you and I just call the "not engaged" employees -- doing just what you need to do, but being able to say, "No." But there's also, I think, a beauty to that of people saying, "No, it's too much! I have too much on my plate already. I need to take a breather." And we know that the 5 elements of wellbeing, if those aren't built in to someone's day to day, where they feel like they're thriving, that's contributing to burnout.

Jim Collison 7:01
Yeah. I think one more signal, and we'll talk about some things to, as we think about this idea of burnout, some things we can do from, from either a management perspective or from a coaching perspective. I am reading a lot on Facebook, and my kids are all, you know, in that millennial group. And so I follow a bunch of their friends as well. And kind of the overarching thought that I've seen over the last, I don't know, 4 or 5 weeks is it especially with this term "quiet quitting," as, you know, really just doing what's expected of you is, You know what? That's enough. That -- by the way, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but the generation is saying, that amount of work is the right amount of work; why would you do more? We have spent culturally, and again, speaking from a very U.S.-centric idea, we spent a lot of time overextending ourselves in the jobs that we're doing, and doing it proudly. I have quotes coming up on that. Right? And we're reconciling this, right.

Jim Collison 8:04
I think this is where, what we're spending a lot of time as a culture is reconciling, What have we done or what was expected of us during, during and post-pandemic? What's the reality of it? Is that all worth it? And so, when you start losing hope, when you start asking that question of, Is this action worth it? That's a hope question. That's like, Ah, well, I hope it's worth it. Right? That hope -- when it's not, when it leads to not be, then we lose hope. And we know that, I think that burnout is a lot of hopelessness in it. Like, Oh, is it gonna be this way for the rest of my life? Right? People are thinking on those terms. OK. Anything else you want to add in before we, we kind of dig into some, some things worth thinking around this, as far as ways to mitigate it?

Jaclynn Robinson 8:54
I like what you just said. And I imagine that's a contributing factor to the great reshuffle that we've seen, where people are kind of questioning that. Is there hope? Do I see myself here in the future? If not, where can I go and thrive in a different organization or outside of work entirely?

Clues to Burnout: A Gut Check

Jim Collison 9:13
Well, you bring up a lot of good points. And I think the, I think the questions in the Q^12®, from a management or from a coach perspective, the questions we have are still super valid. I've had some folks, Jaclynn, ask this, after this, where we're at today, are those questions still valid? And I think they're, they're more valid than they've ever been right now, when we think about, especially the back end of those questions -- Do I have a best friend at work? Is someone there who cares about me, cares about my development? Right, some of those, some of those "me" questions in there, especially in those areas, kind of matter. So how can we overcome, as we think of this, this burnout, what, what are some clues? This may not be the be-all, end-all, but we've got some clues here to help. Jaclynn, what, how can we be thinking about this?

Jaclynn Robinson 10:01
Initially, just straight off the bat from a strengths-based perspective, I like people to do that gut check of, Do you feel like you are experiencing anxiety or depression? Is there a state of uneasiness? Are you upset for the day or are you happy for the day? Because that might be a good gut check of whether you're overusing or underusing your themes. So first things first is just thinking about, am I overusing a theme, like Achiever or Responsibility? I've put so much on my plate, I don't even know what's purposeful anymore and what's just stuff I've said, "Yes" to. And so really just pausing to go, I need to give this talent theme some rest. Let me sort my affairs, identify what is purposeful, figure out if I can eliminate or delegate the rest, and see if that puts me at ease a little bit more.

Jaclynn Robinson 10:49
So it's, it's thinking about, How do we regulate our themes more? We would even say that for managers -- How can you use your talent themes to help you lead your team and really start to identify matching talent to task with them? Because if you have each of the individual contributors on your team playing to their strengths, everyone's going to be a lot more productive and feel like they're thriving more. So that's, I always go straight to strengths first. Anything that you would contribute to that too?

Are You Engaged at Work? Your Strengths and Role Clarity

Jim Collison 11:21
Q03, right? I get the opportunity what I do best every day. Let's just bring it back to that. I think in this reshuffling, I think a lot of folks hopefully reshuffled in the sense, or, or during the "Great Resignation," as some like to call it, reshuffled in a sense, to get closer to that. But what if they didn't? I mean, what if it was just a jump to jump? They took the money option. A lot of, I mean, you know, we, we're in a period of great inflation as well. And so some people took a jump for that. What if they do, what if a manager has made the jump and has a new team that's not aligned that way, or an individual made that a jump? What can they, what do you think they can do? OK, so today's the day. Am I engaged as well in this job as I was before, and does it line up with my strengths? What kind of things can they do to help with that today, if they didn't?

Jaclynn Robinson 12:20
I think about an activity that probably a lot of people that are tuned in have done, but where we ask people to list out their 5 key priorities or 5 primary responsibilities of the role, and then start to map their strengths to it. If there's a gap, and you don't see how one of your strengths connects, can you have a conversation with your manager about how to manage that more effectively? Or do you have a thought partner, or partner in general, on your team or across the organization that can support you with that activity? So it's being a little bit more intentional about what it is you're doing every day and the strengths you have, whether you've taken CliftonStrengths, or whether you're just thinking about what you naturally do and can contribute to that responsibility.

Jaclynn Robinson 13:08
Gallup would also say, Get role clarity from your manager, to make sure that you know what you should be focused on and what excellence looks like in the role. So even going back to engagement with Q01, I know what's expected of me at work, now we've seen that super theme of people don't know what's expected, because they might be, you know, they might be in a new position. And they're just quick with onboarding, because the organization's short staffed, and they just need to get them going fast. So that person needs role clarity to know what exactly they're getting into. Or they might already be in an existing organization, and they're taking on a lot of roles. And for how long? What should they be focused on primarily? So that's where that role clarity with the manager can help. And the manager getting role clarity as well. So I'm gonna keep looping in them, since they're also going through a lot of burnout right now.

Jim Collison 14:00
Yeah, I do think sometimes what we're missing in organizations is the manager of managers. I've spent a lot of time last year talking about this ,as we were talking about teamwork. You know, we did a whole series on teamwork in the workplace. We spent some time talking about all the coaching, the 5 Coaching Conversations that were, that managers can do with, with their, with the folks that they manage. A good reminder of that, as you think about getting role clarity, oftentimes that role clarity needs to come from the manager. How bold should we be, do you think? And I think there's never been a better time. So this is more of a rhetorical question, but How bold do you think we need to be, if we don't have that clarity, to get with our manager to get it? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Jaclynn Robinson 14:47
Yes. I'd say take the risk. Because it doesn't feel like a risk if you are getting a better idea of what excellence looks like in the role and where you should be spending most of your time. Probably also for an individual, that's going to help you know, if I have to spend 80% of my time in this bucket, and I didn't know that I had to spend that much time there, and I don't like it, that might be a wake-up call. Or you might thrive and you love it. And if you are burned out, all of a sudden, now you're reenergized. So I think there's just a lot of overall benefits of having that conversation with management. Even in our leadership briefings, when we're talking with leaders and managers about the state of their organization, based on their engagement survey, that's been coming up a lot. And we keep reiterating with managers and leaders, You've got to have the conversations, because at the local level, people want to know what they should be focused on and what the team goals are. And at the organization level, especially with return to work, they want to know, what's our North Star? What are the organization's goals? Where are we heading? And that's really unclear for a lot of people right now.

Building Back Your Support Systems

Jim Collison 15:52
I think there's been, with a lot of movement, there's been a lot of disruption -- not just in, in what we're doing and what we're expected but in those social constructs at work, those support systems we used to have -- Q10, Best friend at work. Those, those support systems are a little out of, like, how important is it that we also spend some time reestablishing the social structures at, in a place where we might be fully remote? Like a lot of folks took jobs, they moved from a local job to a remote job, because everybody was accepting remote jobs. But now those social structures aren't around them. They can't even go, they don't even have a place to go in to. How important is it that they spend some time building those, those social structures back?

Jaclynn Robinson 16:43
I think that's huge. Having an "accountabilibuddy," which is my favorite word to use, they can be so helpful, and they oftentimes see what we can't when, if we're overworking. Or if we're burned out, sometimes they remember the passions and interests we have and can kind of fan those flames again of interest. So I think we, going back to the key word "intentionality," we have to be really intentional and think about who it is that we used to partner with a lot. How do we start to build in, maybe 5-minute conversations once a week, just to touch base with each other? Or connect with each other on text. Some organizations, they, they've got their friends in their phone, their work friends in their phone, and they can just text back and forth or use Teams or Slack or whatever method is possible. But they can be so helpful.

Jaclynn Robinson 17:33
And what we're sharing with managers and leaders is, when people are onboarded in, because we are in this remote work situation or hybrid a lot of the time, they also have to be intentional about setting up "meet and greets" with those new team members so that they can start to build those connections. Otherwise, they feel like it's, it's an uphill battle to try and make connections in the workplace. Because, to your point, there's no location for some people.

Jim Collison 18:01
Yeah. There's a little discussion going on in chat, and I might have sparked this -- this idea of, of back to work. And listen, we've been working, just to be honest, it's a phrase -- and maybe I said that -- it's a phrase that I think we've said, and, and I like the idea of trying to get that out of the vernacular. Like we've been, yeah, we've been working. Maybe a return to the office or, I mean, it's been so disrupted in so many ways. And now I might have a job that's fully remote. I'm not going in to the office; I'm not seeing people on a regular basis. I have to be strategic and I have to be aggressive, I think, at times, about reaching out to others to make that connection, whether it's -- you mentioned that -- whether it's on text or FaceTime, or WhatsApp, or Slack or the Teams if it's, if it's internal, whatever, right, some of those pieces of being intentional about making connections.

Jim Collison 18:56
As I've been going back into the office more, I am noticing I'm not as productive. But I'm having those 15-minute conversations with people that are very productive when they happen spontaneously. I think in a fully remote environment, you've got to figure out a way to manage those, right? You got to figure out a way to get those -- just, it's gotta be OK to just call somebody.

Jaclynn Robinson 19:19
The Take 5, as we like to call here at Gallup. Can we take 5?

Jim Collison 19:23
What's, what's going on, right? I mean, what's happening, what's going on in your world? To have those pre -- at Gallup, we used to have 10 minutes before meetings where we would just be super social together. And then eventually, somebody would be like, "OK, we need to pull it back together." I think sometimes now in the remote world, we're not, we're logging in, "OK, let's get, let's get right to it." And we're kind of missing some of those, some of those social pieces where I'm missing, we're getting it right, that, that weren't there before. Yeah, I think we have to be -- any, any strategies as you think about being intentional? We kind of mentioned that from texting Teams, Zoom, whatever. Any other thoughts on that, as far as being intentional about setting up some of those?

Jaclynn Robinson 20:12
Yeah. So you can always set up the team meeting in the calendar, although sometimes you hear that, and it just feels so formal and rigid. So a lot of times, people will just shoot a text to each other and say, Hey, you know, can we, can we take 5, or can we take 10, just to kind of catch up? Outside of an accountability partner, some people will also just have Post-It^® notes, if they start to feel overwhelmed. So going back to that, there might be times when you can't connect with a person at work, or you're just kind of stuck in the weeds. And so I like some form of a reminder, like, I know some people have apps, and it will give them like a motivational message every day. Or you can have a Post-It note with a word so, that's close to your computer, so you can just look at it almost subliminally. And it reminds you when you might start going down that path and getting back in the same routine that got you burned out in the first place.

Jaclynn Robinson 21:09
What are some other things? I was just trying to ideate earlier. Paying attention to breath, I think, is huge as well. So are you breathing throughout the day? Or do you feel like, you know, you take a breath and you go, Oh, have I even been breathing in the last minute? Have I been holding my breath the whole time? But that is also a really good sign of if you're holding on to anxiety or some stress or worry. So just maybe taking a breath and walking when you catch yourself doing that.

Practicing Self-Awareness When You're Moving Toward Burnout

Jim Collison 21:35
Jaclynn, Lisa had a great question early on here about, as we think about taking a breath or catching yourself. And I want to explore this a little bit from a strengths perspective. She says, What advice would you give a Restorative-Responsibility who sees the challenges and feels very personal, personally about solving them? Right? Someone who takes these things on personally. Certainly, Restorative-Responsibility is not the only set of themes that do that, right? When we think about our own tendencies, when we think about our own talents, and maybe I'll put this in, in terms of discovering when we're going down that hole, like when we're going down that burnout hole, based on our themes. What are some ways we can know?

Jim Collison 22:25
You just mentioned breath, right, of being conscious, How are we, are we holding our breath? I know sometimes, like when I smile for pictures, I hold my breath. I don't know why. And if it takes a while for them to take a picture, I start turning color. Just breathe, right. But what are some other strategies to know? Like How do we know we've triggered into that, maybe into those early signs of burnout or advanced stages of burnout?

Jaclynn Robinson 22:53
Ooh, I just, I go, I don't mean it to be intuitive. But I go back to just that gut check of, well, we know engagement and wellbeing are closely tied together. And so if your wellbeing is off, oftentimes what we'll say is your strengths are probably off too. And so just knowing, Are you tired? Are you anxious? Are you worrisome? Are you sad? Are you mad? Are you happy? That helps you really think about whether you're playing into your sweet spot effectively or not. And then you could always go back to your strengths report too to look through those blind spots, to just start to identify when you might be overusing them. I'm trying to think if anything else comes to mind; that's automatically what I think about.

Jim Collison 23:37
Yeah, no, it's, for me, it's been, you know, since Season 5 or 6 of Theme Thursday, I've been trying to pinpoint those moments. I think Dallis, we had Dallis Fontenot on, oh, I don't know, a couple months ago, talking about a road map, kind of her coaching, you know, her road trip to her coaching journey. And she has been watching for these, these triggers, these moments when she feels her body or her mind go into these places and then to be able to stop for a second and say, OK, I'm going there. Like it's happening, I'm going there. And then coming up with some strategies -- her particular strategy was to shorten up, she's trying to shorten up those trigger times. So she's in it, and then how do I take it from 2 days to a day to 6 hours, right? But, and there's probably a lot of emotional intelligence built into that of this idea of kind of understanding, here's how I'm feeling. Because trust me, it feels good to be angry sometimes -- just does; I'm going to ... for a while, you know,

Jaclynn Robinson 24:38
Go chop some wood, as we talk about sometimes, in your yard.

Jim Collison 24:42
Or just be mad, right? Just be mad at things, right? But I think calling it for what it is, and then, I think, filtering that through the strengths lens. So saying, OK, what is it about my talents that's, that's driving this frustration? Or What is it about my talents that are making me -- you know, so for me, I want to just keep moving, right? I want to keep moving. And so when things get bogged down or someone, you know, I'm like, "Oh, I'm so frustrated." but to say, to be able to say, "OK, I got some talents that want to move, but I don't have to move."

Jaclynn Robinson 25:16
Yes. Stillness is OK.

Jim Collison 25:21
At the end of the day, it's a choice. Any, any other, as we think about those, because I think that's, this self-awareness piece, this piece of getting to the point where you're like, OK, I understand why this is happening to me. I'm reacting. How do I get out of a reactionary mode? It's, that's, it's really hard, right? It's not easy, right? Other thoughts on that? Or does that bring anything to mind for you, as we think about that, the psychology of this and filtering it through your themes, so you understand why?

Jaclynn Robinson 25:52
I love that. It and it does remind me of that emotional intelligence path of first labeling what it is you're feeling, and then understanding why you feel that way. And then, in our case, tying it back to strengths -- how are my, my talent themes contributing to this experience? And then what's the first action I can take to begin to overcome it? But calling it out and labeling it, for sure, kind of takes it out of your body and onto a table, so to speak, so that you can address it and, and rectify it.

Burnout When You're Underusing Your Strengths

Jim Collison 26:26
Nate makes an interesting comment. He says, A lot of time, burnout first appears as overworking. As we overengage, we sometimes forget conscious to consciously about using our strengths. OK. So sorry, Nate, I kind of, I messed that up. But I also, I also want, sometimes it's not overwork that leads to burnout, but not enough work. Right?

Jaclynn Robinson 26:49
Brain drain. Or theme drain.

Jim Collison 26:52
Yeah. Well, and not being able, there's not enough things to do, not, not the way, you know, put somebody in a job that's kind of meaningless. We're all looking for purpose. We're all looking for a, for a contribution to that. And we don't get enough things to do. I think this may be one of these areas where, as we've all shifted jobs -- certified coaches, let me just talk about them. I've watched a third of you change your email address each year since 2020. So there's, even in the certified coaching community, there's been a lot of movement, right? Think about that. You get a new job. You have high expectations. There's nothing to do. Like you get there, the organization's a mess, or they haven't laid things out for you, or --

Jaclynn Robinson 27:38
You don't know how you contribute, or there's no learning and development pathway for you.

Jim Collison 27:43
Yeah. So I want to, I want to caution us in believing that burnout always comes from overwork. Like, and it does, it does. But sometimes it comes from underutilization. And we got, I want to be cautious of that. Because I think sometimes you're thinking, Man, I'm, I'm not that busy. Why am I feeling disengaged?

Jaclynn Robinson 28:09
And bored?

Jim Collison 28:11
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We, we, oftentimes, when folks join Gallup, and they start working here for, for the first time, and they, their first 30 to 60 days, they're ready to go. And we give them some leeway in that, and I remember working with them, and they were like, I don't know, it's a lot slower than I thought. And I'd be like -- just be patient, like --

Jaclynn Robinson 28:36
Give it time.

Jim Collison 28:37
it is coming. Because if you're good, we're gonna back up the truck and just dump. And so, and then, they'd always come back to me a year later and be like, "Yeah, you were right," you know. So coaches, managers and maybe even individuals, as we think about this, if you're feeling burned out, but you don't feel overworked, maybe you don't have full utilization of those, those talent themes that you have. You know, maybe you're not fully engaged, right.

Jaclynn Robinson 29:06
Yep. That circles right back to what we were talking about earlier of underutilizing or overutilizing your strengths, which can lead to burnout.

Jim Collison 29:15
Yeah. We've got just a few minutes left. As we're thinking about this, I want to give the chat room an opportunity to throw any questions that they might have for us in this. But Jaclynn, anything, when we think about this, just, this is kind of a quick blast on this. We didn't, you know, we didn't have 5 ways or 3 things or, but we kind of wanted to spend some time dialoguing this out with you and having some conversation. I, that's the way I like to do these things. So, got any questions or final thoughts? But Jaclynn, for you, any, any other, any other thing that you wanted to say or that we might have missed?

Jaclynn Robinson 29:50
I don't think so. I think we covered it. It's, it's just even circling or coming back full circle, we talked about really just thinking about your strengths and how you're applying them every day, whether you are underusing them or overusing them. Tapping into your emotions, or being tapped in and tuned in, as they say, to make sure to use that as a gut check of whether you feel like you're burned out and/or thriving. Do you have role clarity? Are you having frequent conversations with your manager? Is the manager themselves having frequent conversations with their leaders, so they have role clarity and lessen their burnout? Bless managers' hearts right now; they've got it pretty tough.

Jim Collison 30:31
Yeah, toughest job in the world, for sure. Managing people is, and it's gotten, I think it's gotten exponentially harder. Just, it's just a lot of work. So if you're a manager of managers, you should be worried about your managers. Coaches, if you're, if you're coaching in organizations, the best thing I think you can do right now is be coaching the managers of managers to get in, to get, get actively involved in what's going on.

Jaclynn Robinson 31:00
Absolutely.

Jim Collison 31:01
Sometimes they check out. They feel like, Oh, no, I've, I've arrived; I've made it. No, you haven't. You've, you need to continue to spend time pouring kind of leadership back into the organization. Lisa was asking, what are the next two sessions, Jaclynn? What are we covering next?

Jaclynn Robinson 31:17
Oh, yes. So next is inclusion. That has been a pretty significant topic over the last -- well, even before COVID, that was a significant topic. But people, we've recognized, have even more DE&I officers in the workplace. So we definitely want to talk about inclusion, and how it's a pertinent need in the workforce right now. And then we're going to get into resiliency as well, just in terms of how many individuals right now are struggling with the sense of, of hope and stability. And so how do we start to build resiliency and a renewed sense of enthusiasm for their future? So that's what's coming up.

Jim Collison 31:55
Cathy says, in chat, she says, I'm a manager. I had to do a lot of emotional work during the pandemic. And that's, that is what burned me out then is just the, that amount of emotional work. And I think you've got to underpin that now to say, OK, that's, that's a good callout. That's what did it. Now what am I going to do, based on what I need, to rebuild those reservoirs to -- because you don't want to just turn it off. That doesn't work. You got to, you got to stack, you know, you got to stack it, and then refill it, to be like, how am I gonna get this back? Just cause you got to get it back.

Jaclynn Robinson 32:37
And sometimes, it's even looping in, as a manager, the rest of the team and having a focus, an individual focus, on each other's wellbeing. Because if you've got everyone thriving, focused on wellbeing at being accountability partners, then the team works so fluidly -- for the manager and the employees, I think.

Jim Collison 32:54
Yeah, for sure. Nate, Nate says, Thanks for calling out the need to have enough to do. It reminded me to check in with a member of my team. I think this could actually be a hidden, you know, a hidden problem in a lot of organizations, especially as we've had so much turnover and many positions have gone remote. Do you have them fully engaged? Do they know what's expected of them? Do they have the materials and equipment to do their job? And do they get the opportunity to do what they do best every day? First three questions in the Q¹².

Jim Collison 33:23
Listen, if you can't answer those three questions yourself, as a manager, or even as a coach, physician, heal thyself! Like we, right, got to take a look at that and be like, I mean, I'm spending a lot of time thinking about, for me, what, where does Called to Coach go in the future? What do we do with this? What, what's it look like post-pandemic? Do I know what's expected of me? Do I have everything I need to do my job? And am I getting the opportunity to do, to do what I do best every day? You know, Cathy also says, Not having enough to do's. I think it's actually more stressful than, than, than for those that are overworked, in some cases. So Jaclynn, anything else you want to add, or you want to close it up?

Jaclynn Robinson 34:13
That just reminds me of, we talked about Q11 and Q -- well, we talk about learning and growth being the key reason you'll see the younger generations join a workplace; it's a key reason all people leave it. That also, I think, might be a little bit of this not having enough to do is stressful, because you've not being stretched and challenged and developed, you can get bored. And nobody, nobody wants brain drain. And one generation that we often leave out of this learning and development equation are the baby boomers, because they're close to retirement. You've got a workplace that assumes, oh, well, they're, they don't need a promotion. They're good. They might not want a promotion, but that brain gain is still very valuable. How can we pair them up with a younger-tenured folk so you can have this mentor-mentee relationship? Or how do we continue to give them brain gain? So shout-out to them, because the baby boomers oftentimes get overlooked with learning and development, and they might not have enough to do or feel quite bored in their role.

Jim Collison 35:15
Yeah, well, don't forget the Generation X. Like they always get forgotten. It's the boomers or it's millennials --

Jaclynn Robinson 35:22
You'll be that older generation soon in the workplace that's getting left out of learning and development.

Jim Collison 35:28
But you know what I'm, what I'm thinking about a lot now -- I'm 54 this year -- I'm thinking, you know, I've got 15 or so, as we think about that sweet spot. How am I passing this on to the next generation? Like, that's my goal in this is how do I get, how do I, how do I move that, how do I move it on, right? How do I have that plan to bring others up in this, to see how it'll work? So for me that's given, for me, that's given me great purpose. A fellow Gen Xer out there: Unite, Gen X! We don't get talked about enough. I think they take us, they take us for granted. OK, so I think some great things that we talked about today, some great tips. Coming back to it, love to continue to have this discussion, whether it's in the comments on YouTube, comments in the chat room, or as we discuss this kind of thing on Facebook; this is not a one and done. I got, one, I wanted to get Jaclynn on here and just kind of talk about these things. But we want this to be a dialogue. So jump in the conversation. Begin talking about it where you're at. Recognize it for what it is, and thanks for coming out today to join us. A couple reminders to take advantage of all the resources we have available now in Gallup Access. Go to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. And those are available, all those resources available there for you. For coaching, master coaching or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, if you're thinking about that maybe post-pandemic, you could just send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Stay up to date with all the webcasts. If you, like, How do I sign up for the next two? Go to gallup.eventbrite.com. You can see a complete list of all the webcasts that we have coming up. No matter when you're listening to this, we've got probably some fresh webcasts out there that you can join us live. We love our live audience. So thank you guys for coming out -- 50 or so today, which is a great number for a Tuesday afternoon (it feels like Thursday already).

Jaclynn Robinson 37:16
Thanks, team!

Jim Collison 37:18
Tuesday afternoon. Find us on Facebook: facebook.com/groups/calledtocoach, and join us on any social platform by searching for "CliftonStrengths." We want to thank you for joining us today. Thanks for hanging out. Little shorter version of what we did today, but we got to get Jaclynn out of the room and to another location for the next call. Thanks for joining us today. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Jaclynn Robinson's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Achiever, Strategic, Maximizer, Positivity and Relator.

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