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Called to Coach
Connecting With Gen Z: Strengths, Purpose in the Future Workforce
Called to Coach

Connecting With Gen Z: Strengths, Purpose in the Future Workforce

Webcast Details

  • What do strengths coaches and leaders need to know about Generation Z?
  • What do Gen Zers want from their work?
  • How can coaches tailor their coaching to meet the needs and desires of Gen Zers?

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 11, Episode 10.

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.


Generation Z -- the generation born between the mid-1990s and about 2012 -- is "amazing," says author, college professor and strengths coach Dr. Santor Nishizaki. Although they are blazing their own trail in many ways, Gen Zers are ready to embark on that journey using their CliftonStrengths. What are Gen Zers looking for at work and in life? What part do they want purpose to play in their careers? And what are they seeking, in terms of coaching and professional development? Join Santor for a look into a generation you need to get to know as you think about the future workforce.


I've seen strengths work incredibly well for Gen Zers in my college classes. They love it.

Santor Nishizaki, 14:04

Connect them to the purpose. And I think you'll have a more engaged Gen Z workforce.

Santor Nishizaki, 27:04

If you want to learn more about someone's culture, ... you would want to spend more time with folks from that group and not stereotype from them one experience ... That's the best way to add to our hard drive.

Santor Nishizaki, 48:32

Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on January 19, 2023.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 0:20
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, and you don't see the chat room, there's a link right above me there to it. It'll take you, we'd love to have you sign in. We'll be taking your questions live. If you have questions for us, or you're listening to the podcast or this on YouTube after the fact, you can always send us an email: Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app or right there on YouTube -- right over there on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Dr. Santor Nishizaki is my guest today. Santor is the founder and CEO of Mulholland Consulting Group, and his work on millennials and Gen Z in the workplace has been featured in places, small, little places like The Wall Street Journal and Forbes. He is a Ph.D. Professor of Global Leadership and Change at Pepperdine University, as well as some other places he'll mention here in just a second, and is a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach. Santor was featured on Called to Coach in May of 2020, which seems like a lifetime ago, if we just are being honest with ourselves, when he talked about how to, how to build a strengths-based city and how to thrive during difficult times. Santor, great to have you back. Before I ask you this question, though, let me say your Top 5: Competition, Futuristic, Achiever, Positivity and Activator. Welcome back!

Santor Nishizaki 1:44
Excellent, Jim. Thank you so much for having me back, and congratulations on saying my last name correctly.

Jim Collison 1:50
Yeah, I butchered it the first time, I have to be honest with you -- I have never quite recovered from that. I've been thinking about that moment and an opportunity to fix that live. And I think I got it, I think I got it right.

Santor Nishizaki 2:03
You nailed it. So thank you so much. And thank you for having me here. I always love chatting with you. And it's, it's been quite some time since May of 2020.

Jim Collison 2:11
Yeah, May of 2020 was a different world for us, and we were thinking about. And listen, I think we're going to spend some time, as we think about Gen Z, we're going to see some things that transpired then, some things we were talking about then, that in the next 3, maybe 2, 2 and some change, right, 2 3/4 of a year, as we're coming up. We're recording this in January of 2023. And I think some things we're going to be dealing with. So I'm kind of excited to get into that. Before we do it, catch us up on you. You are a city, the city manager, right, for the city of Cudahy, and, and kind of wrapping up your term with them. Let's get caught up with you. What, what have you been doing since then?

Santor Nishizaki 2:52
Sure. Well, I was only supposed to be there for a few weeks, which turned into 6 months during the pandemic. So before I was, I did some strategic planning and leadership development for the city council and executive staff. But then I said, Hey, I can only stay for a few weeks because I have to finish this Working With Gen Z book. And then got done in May of 2020. And then I said, Oh, wait a minute, I think the future of work has changed. So maybe it's a good thing that we put a pause on the book. So then what we did was, during the pandemic, we did a national study to find out, What do Gen Zers want after the pandemic? So that's really what the book is all about -- 90% finished, Jim, before the pandemic happened. And then we had to go back, not square, not completely to square one, but just how this will influence the future of work. And that's, and we'll talk about that today.

Impressions About Gen Z

Jim Collison 3:50
Yeah, we've been spending a little time talking about Gen Z. And it's been a little bit, it's been on the radar. Of course, COVID, I think, overshadowed it in a lot of ways as we, as we're coming out of that time -- whatever that means -- as we're coming out of that time, we're beginning, we're beginning to see OK, what, here's what the new trends are moving forward. And some things have snapped back. Other things are never going to be the same. I mean, and I think it kind of varies from where you're at in the world and your work experience, and what were you doing before and some of those kinds of things. So I don't think, no one-size-fits-all. But talk a little bit about how you see Gen Z. When, when someone says that, that term "Gen Z," what's that mean to you?

Santor Nishizaki 4:33
I'd say "amazing!" I mean, this, as a college professor who's been teaching them, I remember had the epiphany back in January of '17 that we have a new generation among us. I feel this generation is super optimistic. I think that they're very resourceful. I mean, growing up with social media has been challenging too. So I think they've had their own challenges and smartphones and devices, but this generation, they care so much. I mean, I don't know if you remember seeing this back in May of 2020, or I think the report came out in June. Deloitte did a study and said what was the No. 1 one thing Gen Zers were concerned about at that time? And this is when all of us were like scrounging for toilet paper, trying to get masked, wiping down our, our groceries. And their biggest concern was environment over healthcare, so that they really care about being good stewards of our, our environment at that time. I mean, still isn't, is amazing. And they're against racism. That was one of the top concerns during the pandemic. So I feel the future is bright with this generation.

Jim Collison 5:41
When we -- say that again.

Santor Nishizaki 5:44
That's my Positivity strength coming out there too.

Jim Collison 5:47
Yeah, I like that. When, when we think about the generations before, before them, the millennials, and I almost see the millennials in two different waves, if we're going to classify that. There's an early group of millennials that are, that are maybe in a post-9/11 generation. Then there is the, that group in between, oh, maybe halfway down the line between them and, and Gen Zers. But we, when we think about, before we start talking about Gen Z, how are, how do you see the millennials responding? Because the, the millennials today represent a good portion of the workforce. And they're the ones, I mean, I'm an Xer, just admittedly, right. And I'm on the last stage of my career, so I'm kind of making it through the next 10 or 15 before, before I retire, but -- hopefully. We'll see. We'll see how it goes. We'll see how the economy goes. Right? How do you think the millennials see Gen Z?

Santor Nishizaki 6:48
So that's interesting. And as, for the listeners, I'm an elder millennial. Some people may say, geriatric. I don't want to offend anyone here. I was born in '85. And my dissertation was on millennials in the workplace, millennial work environment preferences. So as far as what they see, it's interesting, Jim. I'd say they, my experience, and I have a podcast where I ask that question specifically. So I interview a lot of millennial leaders. It's called the Zillennial Leader Podcast, to be accessible to Gen Z and millennials. And I ask that question, and they have nothing but positive things to say about this generation. They say they're super quick from a technology perspective. They ask a lot of great questions. And this is based on their anecdotal experience, but they really, really like them. And I asked, in our survey, What does Gen Z think about millennials? And that was pretty interesting, too. But the results are positive. They had really nice things to say about millennials. So there will be friction. But I think that overall, they have a lot of positive things to say about each other.

Jim Collison 7:57
When we -- Lisa had a good question; I think this is a good one to bring up. She says, What, in your book, and in our conversation, we talking about U.S. or are we talking global?

Santor Nishizaki 8:08
Lisa, that's a great question. We're, my study was done specifically in the United States.

Jim Collison 8:14
What do you think -- just, just as a side note -- do you think there's a major difference between (and this may be one of those hard questions that I ask you), between Gen Z in the U.S. and the rest of the globe?

Santor Nishizaki 8:30
I would, and I'm gonna answer your question with this answer, which is, I haven't studied globally. I, there, I've seen some similarities. I'd say really, when you're looking at a generation, we don't want to stereotype, right? So some of the things we say, Hey, these are some common themes that we've seen. But that's why what's beneficial about strengths is that you could have different, you could have a Learner from a, who's a Gen Zer communicate with a baby boomer, and they could connect through the baby boomer's Learner too. But back to your question specifically, a generation is defined on what's happening in the world as they grow up. So in different parts of the world, I would say in other areas where maybe they don't even have access to technology, how can you compare? So I would say what, it depends on what's happening in that country, and then socioeconomic, as well, background.

Jim Collison 9:25
Yeah. And I think it's a great opportunity for coaches on the ground and in countries outside of the United States to begin to have these conversations however they, however they work out, based on culture, based on experience, based on what's happening in the country, socio, socioeconomic situations. Like, I mean, these are, we're having these conversations; it would be super hard to have a global conversation about this. Listen, it's hard to have a conversation just about the United States on this, because in your, in your work, in your research, did you see any variance in, just here in the U.S. on where maybe things might be a little bit different based on region?

Santor Nishizaki 10:05
Yeah, we had, we sampled different regions, and we didn't see anything overall that I would say has been significant. And we sampled people with different backgrounds and, and gender as well.

Jim Collison 10:15
OK. People love to, and, and Heather not, not trying to pick you on this one, but they love to define, when we think about this, defining Gen Z's and millennials, oftentimes we define those by year. I'm not a giant fan of it, but for your research, for the work that you did, do you remember how you, or how are we identifying these?

Santor Nishizaki 10:34
Yeah, and there's all -- Heather, great question. And I don't say, it's not a science, right; I'd say it's approximate. So we define Gen Z as being born between 1995 and 2012. I've seen the Pew Research say '97, the Pew Research Center, so, and Gallup may even say '96 or '97. But I feel like the, with the smartphone coming out in 2007, the iPhone, with mass distribution, I think that influence, and social media, when they were teenagers, I think that influenced them. That's why we say '95. But there's those ... like Jim, we talked about, the zillennials, which are in between. And then millennials, I say, is 1980 to 1994. And people who don't want to be part of that generation, they may say, oh, you know, that's, they'll pick whatever range they like. I'm a Gen Xer, right?

Jim Collison 11:24
Yeah, I'm an Xer, and I might actually relate more to the millennials than I did my own generation, in a lot of ways. Now, we were talking about this before we got on, I think sometimes I wanted the same things that the millennials were looking for, just wasn't allowed to have it, for whatever reason, for whatever cultural reasons. And I'm finding myself actually identifying a lot with some of the Gen Z values, as we think about some of the things they're thinking about. What does separate -- so let's think about this for a second. You know, certainly during the pandemic, and a lot of things that were happening here in the United States, as we think about DEI and gender identity, what are the major changes? Or what did we see in the numbers? What are they thinking about differently?

Santor Nishizaki 12:07
So, you know, pronouns, you can see Zoom that they, they added that option, as well as LinkedIn. So just I think leaders need to be aware of this and educated on that. We have a section where we talk about that in our book, just to help give a little bit of education to, because this is important to Gen Z. I think there's other statistics out there that say Gen Zers like, I think it's over 30% know someone who, who is identified as nonbinary. So understanding that is important and to create a culture of belonging and being inclusive.

Jim Collison 12:42
Heather wants to make sure. She threw some Gen Z, she says '95 to '12, millennials '80 to '94. And then Gen [X], '60 to '78. We didn't mention that, because -- this is what we say -- Gen X is always the forgotten generation. We say that a lot. Us Xers are a little bitter at times, because the millennials got so much attention. Right?

Santor Nishizaki 13:06
Xers are running the show now, though, right? I mean, over, what is it, the majority of global leaders are Xers. So to answer that question, I believe it's like '64 to '79. And I -- yeah, go ahead.

Jim Collison 13:17
No, go, you go ahead.

Santor Nishizaki 13:18
Well, I was gonna say, I think generations are becoming more micro, right, as technology and other things are, everything's happening faster, I think we'll see these different generations, instead of, it was originally 20 years, and now it's going down to like 15. And I think it's going to continue to shrink.

Gen Z and CliftonStrengths, Strengths Coaching

Jim Collison 13:34
Yeah. When we think about strengths for a second, let's bring it back, because we have a, our audience is a lot of, a lot of Certified Coaches, a lot of strengths coaches. When we think about strengths across those generations, as you're working with this, and maybe some of the information in the book, do you think -- well, how do you, how do you think these, these groups -- whatever they are, however, we define them -- see their strengths? Does it make a difference? I don't know. Let me just throw that out there, that general question out there.

Santor Nishizaki 14:04
So I've seen strengths work incredibly well for Gen Zers in my college classes. They love it. I mean, I didn't take my first StrengthsFinder, well, the StrengthsFinder assessment, till my doctorate program. So I think that we need to start integrating it a lot earlier. And they really like it, because it creates also that self-awareness, that Balconies and Basements worksheet sometimes can be a slap in the face, but it's good for us to understand, especially at an early age, how to navigate those basements to stay in those balconies.

Jim Collison 14:38
Do you think coaching changes, as we think about coaching, the next, the next, whatever, however we're going to define this, this next generation -- the next 10 years, let's say, of workers coming in (my daughter's 24; she's in that, she's in that group; it's a 20 to 30, right). Coming, they're coming in. They have their first jobs, many of them are doing that. Do you think they need different, or what are they looking for, from a coaching perspective?

Santor Nishizaki 15:07
I would say, you know, one of the things that has become a popular term is nanolearning. So if you're gonna assign them work, give it to them in bite-sized chunks. When I say "work," I mean education -- Hey, check out this article. Check out this video. The bite-sized chunks is going to be key, as far as that goes. And then just being up to date, on, on a lot of the DE and I stuff, what's happening in the world, and just being able to see the world through their eyes is really important. But I think from a strengths perspective, we're able to connect through different generations. Like I said, you know, Learner to Learner, Achiever to Achiever, boomer to Gen Zer, millennial to Gen Xer.

Jim Collison 15:46
Yeah. Do you think your coaching style changes at all in this across age groups, or, thoughts on that?

Santor Nishizaki 15:56
I think you'll deal with different types of issues. Like we were talking earlier, before the show, mental health has become at the forefront, mental wellness with this generation. So just knowing when to refer, you know, being a coach is very different than being a therapist or a trained mental health professional. So making sure as, for the coaches listening, that you have a trained person that you can refer them to when it gets to that point, or if you pass that point.

Gen Z and Workplace Preferences

Jim Collison 16:22
We've spent a lot of time thinking about -- maybe "a lot of time" is too generous; we maybe spend more time thinking about the difference between therapy and coaching in that, and important to separate the differences in those two, in knowing what those are. The, this generation is being, and altruism is a, is kind of a, is kind of a word that we've been using with that. Ken ask this question out there. He says, Do you find Gen Zers are attracted or not to public-service employment? What drives their attraction to employment choices, do you think?

Santor Nishizaki 16:59
Such a great question, Ken. And I would say our, I would say Gen Z is so impacted by purp, or they really care about purpose and impact. So how are you able to communicate that as a public, as a public-sector employee? Because that's what you do. And I'd say that would be a really strong recruiting topic. But are you on TikTok, recruiting and delivering a message? And just from a marketing perspective, are you able to communicate with them correctly? And then do you offer hybrid work, work schedules? Because our data found that the, in the United States, that majority of them want to work hybrid at least 50% of the time. And then what's your, what is your support for mental health? Do you have, I mean, a lot of organizations may offer therapy through their health insurance. Is that -- that's something I would probably want to advertise.

Jim Collison 17:51
Yeah, yeah. And actually, that's been available in every EAP program I've been in. This is one of those examples, I think, sometimes, where we think, like I, every organization I've been a part of, including the military, which I was in from '86 to '92 -- the earth was still cooling in those days -- I had access to and could take advantage of talking to a counselor, getting, getting, you know, being, being able to be open about how I felt about things. Wasn't quite -- it was available, but wasn't quite as encouraged, right. The culture around us didn't encourage us as much to, Yeah, you should really do that. Where I think today, that's more accepted. It's kind of become, I mean, I've heard people say, "Oh, yeah, of course, I have a counselor. Of course, I have a therapist. Like, everybody does, don't they?" kind of thing. Whether, we probably shouldn't joke about that, but, but it is a lot more, I think we're seeing a general acceptance to it across all generations. Right?

Santor Nishizaki 18:59
Yeah, definitely. And I've talked to a lot of people during the pandemic; they say, I don't know how I would have gotten through. I mean, you know, jokingly, but, but for real, and, you know, therapy has really helped them throughout the pandemic. And I mean, it's, we literally shut everything off during the pandemic. So we need to, I mean, that's a conversation that -- and leaders, any leaders listening, or people who are coaching leaders, need to make sure that you're vulnerable enough to talk about that type of stuff.

Jim Collison 19:29
Let's talk a little bit about management for a second, because I think that's an area, we, right as the pandemic was starting we put out It's the Manager. We spent a ton of time here at Gallup thinking about paycheck versus purpose and boss versus coach.

Santor Nishizaki 19:44
Love it.

Gen Z and Management-Style Preferences

Jim Collison 19:44
What, what is the desire, as we think, when we think about the management style, what are you seeing or what have you seen in numbers? What did you write about in the book, as far as how they want to be managed?

Santor Nishizaki 19:54
So we found that they want -- big surprise, Jim, right? -- they want to have a mentor and a coach as a manager. "Technical expert" was actually all the way at the bottom. That's surprising to me. Not too surprising, but that's a whole skill set that managers now need to have. So and also, they want to have a lot more face-to-face interactions with their supervisors. So sometimes, I don't know about you, Jim, but in the working world, sometimes we don't meet with our supervisors for a couple of weeks, or maybe -- depends on what you do -- maybe once a month, you have a one-on-one. Now they're requiring at least, sometimes multiple times per day.

Jim Collison 20:35
We've been, we've been talking about this for a while of, you know, we have these 5 Coaching Conversations for managers that we spend time. We have this idea of a Quick Connect, which is jumping in and just having a conversation. It doesn't necessarily have to be developmental in nature; it can just be a time to spend 5 or 10 minutes of what's going on. We have also seen how important recognition is, as part of that system they're desiring, and really everyone is desiring. Nobody says, "Oh, that's enough recognition," right? Nobody -- said by no one ever, right? Everybody likes that. What do you think the challenge is? If you were, you know, if you were speaking to a manager today, and you were thinking about equipping them or helping them, because they're overrun as well, right? I mean, it's not like they're in great shape, either.

Santor Nishizaki 21:20
No one talks about the managers too, right, as far as, they're some of the most stressed-out people in this pandemic.

Jim Collison 21:25
Yeah, from, from a coaching perspective, what, what kind of, what kind of advice, or what are you seeing to help managers adapt to what's happening here?

Santor Nishizaki 21:37
I think if it's remote, or, you know, hybrid, I'd say one of the best things you can do is have, if you're remote, to have like an office hours, so Gen Zers can just pop in, just like in college, right? Maybe 1 or 2 hours a week. But also, as far as recognition, you know, one of the things I always ask my students is, "How many of you like to be recognized publicly?" And half the class raises their hand. "How many, do you feel like that would be embarrassing to you?" The other half can raise their hand. So understanding recognition, who is being recognized, their preference is really important, too. So, and it could be through different systems within the organization. But that's really important as a, as a supervisor, to understand.

Jim Collison 22:21
Yeah, we always ask, when I'm managing people, I ask that question right up front. Almost, I almost onboard them, you know, like, Hey, you're, there's some things I need to know about you. And one of them is how do you prefer to be recognized? Right? How do you, what, how do you like, how do you like that to be done? What are some things that scare you about it? I think there's a group of us -- you may be this way, with me -- that we thrive on it a little bit.

Santor Nishizaki 22:44
Hey, Jim, I have Significance in my Top 10. I want you to email everyone, right? But not everyone does. And we have to be self-aware that, you know, we want to lead to each person the way they want to be treated, not the way you want to be treated, based on their strengths. Right. And that strengths works really well with Gen Z.

Jim Collison 23:03
Yeah. Hold on, let me, let's, let me go back on that. "Strengths works really well with" -- explain, explain that. Why do you, why do you -- ?

Santor Nishizaki 23:11
So, I mean, it works well with all generations, really. But I think, going back to the data and everything else, that's what I love about Gallup is you're so data-driven. So it's not like some random assessment that's new or anything like that. It's, it's proven to work. And I've been using it in a corporate and a lot of my college classes, and it's been very positively received. And the podcast is something that, it's free and available. And a lot of them like listening to the podcast too.

Jim Collison 23:40
You told me -- hold on, you told me you assigned it as a homework --

Santor Nishizaki 23:42
It's a homework assignment in some of my classes. Yeah. So they take the assessment. And then I'll actually do the workshop for some of my classes too -- the one that I would normally do for my clients. But yeah, they have to write about, listen to one of your episodes on one of the strengths that they loved or were kind of like, "That doesn't make sense to me." So it's, it's been a great tool for the college students.

Jim Collison 24:04
Four of my Top 5 are Influencing themes. That made my day. With that, we'll remind everyone to take --

Santor Nishizaki 24:09
I think 6 out of my 10, Jim, are Influencing, so I love it.

Gen Z and Finding Purpose at Work

Jim Collison 24:14
And I have a lot of Relationship Building themes too. So it makes my heart happy, so to speak, to hear that you're using that work as homework. And for those who have to listen to it, I'm sorry that it has to be your homework. Heather asks a great question. She said, I'd assume that the theme of Belief is more frequent from Gen Z or millennials. (I actually don't know that stat.) But finding people, finding people in companies that have a purpose, so this is another one of our findings out of It's the Manager, that they're, that they're looking for a company that has purpose in that. Can you spend, what is, what did you guys find in, in -- what did you find, I should say; you wrote the book, not a group of people. So what did you find about them looking for purpose?

Santor Nishizaki 24:59
So I do have a coauthor, James DellaNeve, just wanted, it's OK, just wanted to throw it out there with him, to give him recognition. And he's like me; we like the public recognition. So as far as what we found, purpose, I mean, it's so important to this generation. And it's funny too, Jim, we had, one of the comments was, "Millennials, they'd rather work for money than purpose." And I thought that -- that was one comment, but I thought that was hilarious, because millennials are the ones, like, Oh, we have to start with "why" and, you know, Simon's, Simon Sinek's big thing about purpose and why. But Gen Z just as much; they would rather have, work for a company with purpose than a pay raise. And there's data out there to support that -- although we should pay them, we should pay them more money.

Jim Collison 25:41
I know we say that. But I think what happens, like, and I'm not saying the numbers --

Santor Nishizaki 25:45
In the life stages, right?

Jim Collison 25:47
Yeah, you get, you're in your 20s. And you, you kind of have this view, like life's gonna, it's a long time out. I'm OK. I want to work at this place where the purpose is more important. Then you work there for a while and you're like Man, life's expensive!

Santor Nishizaki 26:02
Especially in Los Angeles!

Jim Collison 26:03
Yeah, no, right on, right. It's Seattle, New York.

Santor Nishizaki 26:06
Adulting. Adulting is expensive, Jim.

Jim Collison 26:09
Almost every city in the nation, Dallas -- they're all expensive, right? But you, you get into that. And I think in your mid-30s, you're like, You know, it would be nice if I made a little more money. So I wonder if there's, if there's that kind of effect that goes on sometimes?

Santor Nishizaki 26:25
Well, yeah, I mean, as your responsibilities increase, daycare is expensive, right? I mean, gosh, I could get a couple of Teslas for what I pay for daycare every month. But yeah, it's expensive. But I still, I don't see, you can still have more money with purpose. So it could be explaining, if they have, if they do a spreadsheet, explain to the impact of those numbers and what they're going to do. And I give a lot of examples about that of like, if you're working with someone, or you're coaching someone who's in, let's say, procurement, and they're procuring something that's important to the mission of your organization, take them to see that whatever that procurement is being launched. That's really important. Those, it doesn't take that long; takes a couple of minutes. So connect them to the purpose. And I think you'll have a more engaged Gen Z workforce.

Jim Collison 27:09
Do you think strengths can have an impact on that purpose, of discovering that purpose or helping out with that?

Santor Nishizaki 27:16
I think we all see it through that lens, right, Jim? I mean, my purpose is, I mean, my top strengths, as you saw, Competition, Futuristic, so I know for me, if you want to tell if I'm working for an organization, and they're trying to connect me to the purpose, my Futuristic is gonna ask, What's the big picture? So I need to see it through my lens, because, you know, you can't just, I'm not Analytical. I don't even have that in my Top 10. So I need to see the big picture on how this is gonna flow. Right? And how the impact's going to be 10 years from now or 20 years from now.

Gen Z and Expansion of Work Opportunities

Jim Collison 27:47
It, I was always, I fit in, again, it's, I'm the maybe the youngest millennial, and now I'm gonna -- or the oldest millennial. Now I'm gonna say I'm the oldest Gen Zer. I'm just gonna own that, because I too, I've found you know, the last 10 years, as I've, as I've slidden into this job that I'm doing right now, what I'm doing with you right now, it has a tremendous sense of purpose for it. And I'm finding that's what I was looking for and longing for my whole life. You know, I was looking for something to, that has this incredible impact, this incredible purpose in it. So it's, I align with that. When I, when I, when I talk to those, and over the last, you know, 10 years, I've done internships and had had high school and college students on our campus. And we spend a lot of time thinking about that. And then we can apply that layer of strengths to say, Hey, how have you, what unique talents have you, do you have that you can apply in a role that you're in? Or maybe even this idea of job crafting, where you begin, you start in a role, but you begin to change -- you change that role as you --

Santor Nishizaki 28:58
It evolves.

Jim Collison 28:58
Yeah. You want to talk a little bit about that?

Santor Nishizaki 29:00
Yeah, sure. So we found, like, I think it's over like 90% of Gen Zers want to do, have responsibilities outside of what they were originally hired for. And then a lot of them have side gigs. So if organizations, I know it's tough from an HR perspective, so I always say work, you know, bring them in and, and legal in the beginning, to make sure that everyone's on board, so you're paying them for what, the work they're doing. But it's, let, instead of them getting a side gig outside, if they're a photographer, maybe they could take photos within the organization. If they're a podcaster, on the weekends, maybe they could do, start a podcast for your company. So, or web design, whatever it may be, or TikTok. You know, a lot of, it's interesting, Jim, you know, you ask kids, what do they want to be when they grow up? I don't know if you've heard that from any family members. And what I don't know, what I hear is, "Oh, I want to be an influencer or have a YouTube channel." So taking that skill set and being able to use that for the company. How do you recruit to Gen Zers? Maybe through a TikTok campaign or something like that, to show the impact in the culture of working there.

Jim Collison 30:05
Be careful what you wish for. You might end up, you might end up doing your passion, which changes that a little bit. It does, it does. We, we have this great example that I love to share is I had an intern who was a drone, drone racer, you know, on weekends, he would go out and they would race. They'd go, these, these big auditoriums and, you know, race. I don't know if that's still popular; it was really popular for a while. That may be one of those things where the pandemic slowed that down a little bit. We needed someone to do some filming for us -- I think it was during one of the summits. And, and so we had his drone and then recorded -- we flew it through the building to do some recording for that. And I think that was a really great example of taking, we do the same thing -- you mentioned photographers. Many of our photographers at Gallup are, they're not, that's not their official job. But that's what they do for us. They're really, you know, they're really, really good at it. We even have -- and this is super, super crazy; a lot of organizations would never go for this. We have a band at Gallup. We have a band. They go places on the weekends and play at different clubs and, you know, different venues and some of those kinds of things. And they do it, they kind of go out together, it's some Gallup employees and maybe some friends or family of them and such. But we had so much musical talent, that we just put our own band together. And they play for events that we do, and some of those kinds of things. As, when you think about that multiple, having, maybe having multiple jobs, does that play into that as well?

Santor Nishizaki 31:36
Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, the, the passion is the "what," or the "why" is a little bit different. But I'd say the strengths is the "how." So OK, you are a photographer. OK, so what strength can we use to tap into that and how to integrate it within our organization? So if you have Analytical, you know, how do you see it through that lens of how can, how can this event be awesome, right? What are the details that we need to consider, from a photography point of view? Kind of exactly like with the drone. I'm sure, it'd be interesting to see your interns' talents to see, their strengths, to see which ones you tapped into for that, right?

Gen Z and Professional Development

Jim Collison 32:15
Yeah, yeah. Ended up, that intern ended up staying with us for quite a few years. He did a straight-to-work kind of job where we, we hired him right after high school to do some software development. And he did not want to do a 4-year degree. So we were just like OK, come write code for us. And I think we had him for 3 or 4 years. And so a great way of doing that. When, let's, let's shift to development, thinking about the way they look at development. Lisa's got a good question about this. But I want to ask you first, How are they seeing, how is that group seeing development -- personal development?

Santor Nishizaki 32:54
OK, so professional, professional --

Jim Collison 32:56
Professional development, right.

Santor Nishizaki 32:58
I mean, you see that, that one influencer on TikTok is like making millions of dollars a year just on Excel. What do they call her? The Excel girl or, I mean, it's incredible. So TikTok is a great way to produce content for the coaches out there. If you're trying to produce content for your business, a great way to do that, but you have to do it in 30 seconds or less, which is, for me, because I have, you know, TikTok, and I have my marketing team that creates the videos. And I'm like, Wait! How do I do, say something that's meaningful in less than 30 seconds? But it's that bite-sized learning. So you see that a lot -- the nanolearning and things like that. And then, yeah, those are the biggest things I see. Podcasts, I think are great ways. Well, Audible and just reading. So --

Jim Collison 33:46
"No" to podcasts. They're, that's old school.

Santor Nishizaki 33:48
Bite-sized chunks!

Jim Collison 33:50
Lisa, Lisa asks, and I'll have a follow-up to that bite-sized chunks here in a second. But Lisa asks, Where is Gen Z most challenged and need the most development from the rest of us? I know, this is asking for a generalization, but, but what are their points of friction that could be sources of growth?

Santor Nishizaki 34:08
Hey, Lisa, thank you for asking that question. I would say dealing with conflict is one of the biggest challenges we've seen as a theme. Not all Gen Zers, as you said, Lisa. So being able to coach them. And what I've done that's worked really well is by asking questions as a coach, right? That's what we do. But rather than saying as, if you're coaching people who are leading or managing Gen Zers, you would, instead of saying, "Hey, you did this report wrong," maybe asking the question, saying, "Hey, what made you do this one part of the report like this?" And then teaching them how to get to that. But dealing with conflict? I mean, Jim, if you don't like someone on, on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, what do you do? I mean, I'm sure you don't do this, but --

Jim Collison 34:53
Well, you troll them; that's what everybody else --

Santor Nishizaki 34:55
You might troll them or you might try to cancel or you might block them, if they don't, if they don't agree with you. So imagine just growing up with that mentality. I'm not saying all Gen Zers do this at all. But this is, even outside of my research, there's a great book called iGen that talks about this a little bit, of dealing with conflicting points of view. So when you get to the workplace, you know, we're going to have conflict on different ways we approach problems. So I think coaching them to deal with recognizing it, and then dealing with it in a healthy way, because conflict is good when it's, it's not personal conflict, you know.

Jim Collison 35:28
Listen, there may be a lot of Gen Xers who don't, like, we didn't, since we didn't grow up. I mean, we grew up face to face. And, you know, we're the last generation to play in the street. We did -- yeah, you could do that. It was, we played a lot in the street. We'd play till those street lights came on, came on.

Santor Nishizaki 35:46
That's child abuse now, right, Jim?

Jim Collison 35:48
Well, you could, you could get called in for that one. We did a lot of things face to face. We were used to kind of just telling each other how it was person.

Santor Nishizaki 35:59
Millennials too. Yeah, older millennials.

Jim Collison 36:01
And, and so sometimes that has translated into this into the social space as just absolutely, I've watched my friends do this on Facebook -- they just absolutely blast each other on, on social or whatever. And that's, that's not healthy either, right, I mean, because of the ramifications for that. So I think across all generations, we might have that.

Santor Nishizaki 36:22
Pick up the phone!

Jim Collison 36:23
That opportunity. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Santor Nishizaki 36:26
We need to have more conversations, right. Pick up the phone. Some things are not a text message or a Teams message or a Slack message. If you're upset with something, it's better to talk about it over, over the phone.

Jim Collison 36:38
And you know what I found? -- for me; this would be my experience -- is getting the camera turned on changes things too. Of like, Hey, let's have this conversation. But I want to, I actually, I want to see you. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want this to be a phone call; I want it to be more intimate. I want to see you in this and, and know what your body language is. And that's what's great about, when we think about what's going on right now is the, the situations of the pandemic. COVID forced us all to be on camera, finally. My dreams came true. Like, I've been wanting this for a decade, and I couldn't get anybody to join me on camera. And now, like, for the most part, everybody at least has a camera. Is that, does that, that scenario, where now we have visual access regardless, does that change anything, do you think? As --

Santor Nishizaki 37:27
I would, yeah, I would, I would say so. And, you know, I, it's interesting. During the pandemic, when I was teaching, a lot of people left the cameras off, and I couldn't require them in one of the schools I taught at. And it was, yeah, it was normally my Gen Zers that had their cameras off, and my graduate-level classes, they all had the cameras on. But we, so I wanted to know, like, what is Gen Zers, what are they doing when the camera's off? Like what, that's a million-dollar question during the pandemic. And the biggest thing they said was, when the cameras off, they're multitasking, which is -- and then the other one was they're not camera-ready? And then the third response was they're not, they're not actually at their desk.

Jim Collison 38:08
Well, it's true. That's true. One of the things, and this just may be, you know, me, but at the beginning of the pandemic, I remember the first day I had to work from home -- and I'd worked from home before, so it wasn't that, you know. But, but where a lot of folks were working from home at that point. And I had this conscious thought to myself is I'm not going to change my routine because the situation's changed. So I'm still gonna get up at 6, still gonna get a workout in. I'm still going to shower and get ready like I was going somewhere. I was gonna be presentable, and I was gonna do that. Do you think that's a reflection of my generation? Do you think that's a reflection of my strengths? Do you think that's a reflection of my experiences? That was my choice. I'm not saying that was right. I'm just saying that was my choice. But thinking through my thought process there, what, what do you think's at play in that, in a decision like that -- to be ready, to be camera ready and not just roll out? You know, like, OK, I'm gonna wake up at 7:55 and turn on the camera at 8 or start working.

Santor Nishizaki 39:13
It depends on where you are in your life. Depends on what you do, right? If you're an accountant, do you need to be camera-ready by 8 a.m., or can you roll out of bed? I mean, but these are just, from productivity, Jim, you know, you want to start the day off with some type of exercise or routine like that, so the moment you start working, you're firing on all cylinders. That's just a productivity 101. And maybe people, I didn't learn that till much later in my life. You know, later, towards, I think, probably my late 20s, I started exercising every morning. And then by the time I got into the office, I was hitting the ground running. So to anyone listening that's, if you're comfortable with that, that's a good option. And now I spend the, usually spend the time with my, my two sons, and we go on like a little walk when it's not too cold. It's like really cold in L.A. the last couple of days.

Jim Collison 40:02
Listen, full disclosure: I just knew if I didn't do that, I would slip into oblivion. And like, it would be 11:00 and, you know, I would, I'd be rolling out. So I thought, OK, I know me -- Discipline very low, Focus very low. I'm gonna need to put some things in place for me that I just --

Santor Nishizaki 40:22
That's self-aware.

Jim Collison 40:22
Yeah. It was a strengths-based decision, to be honest. It was looking at what I, I know I struggled with in the past and saying, OK, in this new situation (we didn't, by the way, we thought it was going to be 2 weeks!). I was like Oh, we just, this thing will be 2 weeks long. I remember we had a conversation with, and they were, How long do you think? This was like, you know, that first meeting that we had, and "How long do you think?" "Oh, a couple weeks." And, you know, it didn't. It didn't. Lisa says, Jim, I used to get up, get dressed and put my shoes on. That's an extra level of Discipline in that. So Brea asks a good question, I think. She says, Other than having a coach for a boss, right? That's an expectation, a switch. What other development opportunities -- you mentioned bite-sized or mini learning opportunities. But what other development opportunities do you think Gen Zers want or expect at work?

Santor Nishizaki 41:19
That's a great, Hey, Brea! I know Brea. Good to, good to hear from you. So there's so many different ones. But within the organization, like I was saying, there's the bite-sized chunks. I mean, honestly, mentoring. That's one of the things I feel like Gen Zers got robbed during the pandemic was that face-to-face mentoring opportunity of having those hallway conversations. So I think if you are listening, and you're not a coach, that's OK. If you're a supervisor, and you want to work fully remote, think about the people you're leading, because that's leadership, right, is you want to be there for them. But be structured about when and how you do that. Because you don't have to be in the office -- depends on what you do. But if you're working like a hybrid schedule, the days you're in the office, have those mentoring conversations, have those one-on-ones and have the, any type of brainstorming or things that you need to do in person. And then the spreadsheets -- you could do, Why drive into the office and deal with traffic? for a spreadsheet.

Knowing What's Expected at Work

Jim Collison 42:19
What do you think about expectations? When we think about, you know, saying, hey, it's an expectation that you're camera-ready? Is that right, or is that wrong? Like, and listen, that doesn't have to be binary, right? It doesn't have to be a right or wrong answer. But as we think about this generation seeing expectations, what do we know about that?

Santor Nishizaki 42:42
That's well, you mean just workplace expectations?

Jim Collison 42:45
Yeah, like accountability and expectations. Hey --

Santor Nishizaki 42:47
Oh, gotcha. I gotcha.

Jim Collison 42:49
Yeah, I've got some things I need to get done, or I need you to get done. Like we hired you to do this job. These are the expectations.

Santor Nishizaki 42:57
Well, I think your data -- Gallup, not you, Jim, but Gallup -- is that overall, I mean, a lot of people don't know what's expected of them. And that hasn't, that's not new. So one of the things we found from Gen Z is like over 90% want to know what's expected of them from Day 1. And it's a transparent process as well. So I think part of that onboarding conversation, in addition to being how you like to be recognized is, this is how you're going to be evaluated, not just during performance of your time, but -- and this is how I can help you as your leader and coach to get you to, to meet those goals. But we need to know. If we're not trying, and that's part of the biggest challenge of people working remotely, just being logged in to your computer and keystrokes, that's not productivity. So we need to measure better on outcomes through -- and that's what their expectation is, is transparency and measurement. And that creates, to me, I think, a little bit more equity when it comes to promotions and things like that.

Jim Collison 43:58
It's hard.

Santor Nishizaki 43:59
It is. It is. But, but we've had a couple of years to figure it out.

Jim Collison 44:03
No, no, no, right on. Well, I mean, even when, even before when we, you're right, I mean, that, that first question in the Q12®, Do I know what's expected of me at work? It's just, it's, it's amazing to me how many people get to work and don't know. You know, they just don't know. It was, whenever I onboarded a new employee or interns, that was always the first question of the first week. And I would ask them on Friday: You tell me, what do you think is expected of you here? Like, I want to hear it from you. Be ready. I made them, I made them write it out and then say it to me, because I wanted to hear that they clearly understood the reason and the, you know, why are you here doing this? Because if they couldn't, I missed. It's not their fault.

Santor Nishizaki 44:47
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Or maybe the organization too, right, the culture and the systems in place.

Connecting With Gen Z Coachees, Employees

Jim Collison 44:53
Yeah, well, people leave managers. So it was my fault. If they, they didn't know, it was definitely my fault. I'll take the blame for that one. Carolyn asks this question: What do you rec -- what are your recommendations, or what recommendations do you have, for Gen X coaches to connect with Gen Z? How can they show that we sincerely want to connect and learn from each other? What do you think? What are your thoughts there?

Santor Nishizaki 45:19
Carolyn, that's a great question! So Gen Xers are parents of Gen Zers, which is also, I mean, millennials are the kids of baby boomers. So the best way you can connect with them is trying to understand what they're going through from pop culture. I mean, you could go into Spotify®, and I do this. This is a fun exercise, Jim. I mean, if I want to learn more about baby boomers and connect with them, I'll go in and type in "baby boomer playlists." And I get a lot of Creedence Clearwater, which I love. So I do, doing the same thing. Find out what what's happening with Gen Z. Maybe try TikTok, right, see what's going on there. I mean, it invaded all my senses. I felt like the first time I opened TikTok, it was like really loud and fast and makes me sound maybe a little outdated, I guess. But just understanding how they absorb content, understanding what's important to them. Use your Input strength, and Learner, if you have that in your Top 10 to gather information, and then send it out to your other coaching friends.

Jim Collison 46:20
We can't do this in the workplace, and it's too bad. But one of the things that really helped me over the last couple years was I spent a lot of time with my daughter, who's in that. And I did because, well, when she was home from school, and even when she wasn't home from, from school, she'd come home over the weekends. And we started cooking together. And so we'd have these conversations while we were cooking. We don't talk every, every time, but I wonder if some of the answer is, Find more ways to just have contact?

Santor Nishizaki 46:50
Yeah, I mean, have a lunch. I mean, that's one of the other things -- saying, Hey, I love to hear what you think about the company. You're new. You know, let's grab lunch. That's how I got informal reverse mentoring or mentoring opportunities too.

Jim Collison 47:02
Yeah, yeah, we call that a Quick Connect in our 5 Coaching Conversations model. But it's a great way, you know, to, one of the things I've been doing, I've been going back in a couple days a week and, and working from the office. And I have lunch with the sales team, who I don't, I don't have a direct report to them. They don't, they have no dotted-line relationship to me. They would just always meet -- their tradition during, during the pandemic was when they were in the office, to meet together for lunch. And they would pull tables together. If you've been on the Gallup campus, you know our atrium; you can pull those tables together. And I started eating with them. And man, was that not an eye-opening, relationship-building experience for me. Santor, I think sometimes we forget to just go talk. Like, you can, here's, you know, I'm the old guy at the table. I don't care. And they don't care, either. They enjoy the conversation. They love having me there. When I don't show up, I'll come down the stairs, and they're waving me over. Like, come eat with us. Like --

Santor Nishizaki 48:07
Are those all the Woos, Jim?

Jim Collison 48:09
No, not all of them. Not all of them. No, it's, it's, so I think there's some accountability on our end, regardless of the generation, to reach across those lines or whatever they are -- those ages, whatever they are. And just have, just have a conversation, right?

Santor Nishizaki 48:28
Yeah. And, well, that's I think with anyone from any background, right? If you want to learn more about someone's culture or, or anything, right, you would want to spend more time with folks from that group and not stereotype from them one experience, but continue to expose yourself to new experiences. Go to different festivals, right, from different backgrounds. That's, that's, I think the best way to add to our hard drive.
Santor Nishizaki, 48:32
Jim Collison 48:50
Oh, I like that! I like that. Mark, pull that, pull that out as a pull quote. He's, he's listening to this in the future. And he's transcribing it is what he's doing. So pull that one out, Mark. Eight weeks from now, I'll hear that from him. Brook asks, How can a strengths-aware team delicately coach or mentor up the chain of command, if their leadership/manager isn't self-aware? Any, any thoughts on helping upstream?

Santor Nishizaki 49:19
Well, that Balconies and Basements exercise is amazing for the self-awareness. I mean, I've sat, you've sat in those, I'm sure, Jim, where people have their strengths. And I have a worksheet, you know, from y'all, of like, Hey, let's talk about our balconies and basements. And let's circle the ones that we think, that we, that we, maybe other people may see us as. So talking about personal branding and perceptions, I think, is big. But also talking them, to them, if you're trying to lead up, talking to that leader in the strengths that they, in the language they understand through their strengths. So like, if they have Analytical, show, you know, show the data. You know, show up with the spreadsheets. They'll appreciate that, right. If they have Competition, show them the metrics. What's, what's, how are we going to get to the finish line on, what's our goal? Things like that.

Jim Collison 50:07
Yeah, you know, what I wish sometimes they'd asked me is, How was that seen when you were growing up? You know, you might be having a conversation, a delicate conversation or a struggle at work, something. And for a Gen Zer, if I was managing a Gen Zer, I, I would fall down, I'd be content for the rest of my life if they'd said, Hey, how was that handled when you were, when you were growing up? Just tell me. Like, because I think it shows some, I think sometimes we think the conversation is only a one-way street. And I think there needs to be as much understanding going back in time, of saying, Oh, wait a minute. You, you were influenced by a completely different set of things when your brain was developing, and have some thoughts. I think there needs to be an, an equal exercise in patience.

Santor Nishizaki 51:02
Yeah. I completely agree. And when I speak to companies about different generations in the workplace, it's, it's so we can all kind of understand, Hey, this is what the world was like when you were growing up. But, like, I know, you know, one, and this is a common theme with baby boomers is they usually work longer hours, or they, you know, work-life balance, they grew up with it. I mean, that was the part of their careers. So I knew, show up before the boss got there and leave after they leave -- If I'm on a salary; I know you're hourly can't do that. But I knew that they valued that, rather, in addition to the output of quality of work, I knew that showing up early and staying late was important to some, some baby boomers.

Jim Collison 51:44
Yeah, yeah. Last comment, and then we'll kind of bring this one in for a landing. Brook says, As we talk about pop culture, we do have to remember that TV and movies and even music of the time saw parents and leaders, maybe it's not the best influence, right, as the, or as the problem. Does this cause disconnect between Gen X and Gen Z? If, you know, now, my kids, I was an early, I was a late Gen Xer, and I had kids early. So my kids are, typically fit into the millennial group; they're already, they're 34 to 24 at this point. They're on the tail end of the millennial group. But do you think pop culture plays a part -- that repeated what we see on TV or we hear in music becomes a believed stereotype?

Santor Nishizaki 52:31
I think it's good to, yeah, well, I think it's good to have that conversation. Right? There's a lot of things that would not age well.

Jim Collison 52:39
There's a lot of things that haven't aged well.

Santor Nishizaki 52:41
A lot of things that haven't aged well, that still is on reruns. But I think that's part of the conversation. I'm not telling you to say, Hey, you know, go watch something offensive, you know, to tell a Gen Zer that. But I think having a conversation about that is, that's where the magic happens of understanding. When I say "understanding," I think I'm saying that from older generations to the younger generations, watching what, what they find interesting on TV. I mean, there's a lot of shows out there, streaming platforms, there's a lot of shows out there that are, are very progressive, to understand why that's popular with Gen Zers, to understand where they're coming from. And that's another way to learn more about their pop culture.

Jim Collison 53:24
Yeah, there's a, there's a, I'm hesitant to say this, but I think I will. There's a lot of cultural learning about the way we thought that's, that's embedded in the TV of those days. And it's, guys, boy, it's never been more painful to go back and watch some of those. And you're just like, Oh, yeah, no. No, no, no, no. But it is, it, it's, it's recorded. It's a part of, it's part of the culture. I think it's a good learning opportunity to say, You know what? That's kind of, that's kind of the way we thought; we don't necessarily think that way now. I, it's good to know.

Santor Nishizaki 53:58
It's almost a snapshot of what society thought at that time, in some cases, right?

Jim Collison 54:04
Yeah, no, it's a, it's a time capsule in a lot of ways. It's a, it's a time capsule in a lot of ways. And I think even if you go back into the '50s, and '60s, and you see the experiences, especially in the '50s.

Santor Nishizaki 54:15
"I Love Lucy."

Jim Collison 54:16
Yeah, you see some of the experiences of those programs post-World War II. In a post-, in a post-, here in the United States, post-World War II culture. And you kind of go, Oh, how could they? Well, OK, but that was the experience at the time. I think the key to all of this, and I'm going to ask you here to wrap your book here in just a second. But I think the key to all of this is understanding, right, and saying, OK, wait a minute. Something is happening here based on something. Let's get to the bottom of what that is, what that is. And let's ask some great questions to get to the bottom of it before assuming. You know, we were talking about the way culture just fights back without asking. "Did you mean to say it that way?" Like this, that question sometimes, "Hey, what did you mean by that?" Could, could avoid a lot of, a lot of the issues that we have. I don't know, any additional thoughts on that before I ask you one -- ?

Santor Nishizaki 55:06
No, I think that's great. And I think just having an open mind is the biggest thing and not stereotyping. But I think educating yourself of how, I mean, that's what my book really is, is creating empathy. Right? But empathy alone is not the best thing. We need to have empathy plus compassion. So how can we help? So you really need to have both: the action of how to help them. Like if you have empathy, "Oh, I'm sorry, you have a family member that's sick. But by the way, you still to come in at 8 a.m. tomorrow," right? The compassion is being able to say, "We got you covered. We care about you, you know, and you're part of our team."

Jim Collison 55:41
Everybody wants that, from, from boomers to Xers to millennials.

Santor Nishizaki 55:45
Doesn't change. Yeah, some generations are just louder about it. Right, Jim?

Jim Collison 55:49
Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're in a, they're in a place to be.

Santor Nishizaki 55:53
Yeah, it's, it's a great time. I'd say the pandemic has really changed the way, I mean, finally, we were able to work from home, and that aspect. It's terrible of all the other things that have happened. But through that, we've been, I mean, our data found that a lot of the Gen Zers felt like they're able to bring their full selves to work while working remotely, so they felt more comfortable. So I think it's a good way for, opportu-, leaders to actually trust employees to get work done at home. Not everyone's meant to work from home, by the way. And not all jobs can.

Jim Collison 56:27
Many jobs can't, just to be honest. Many jobs can't. We heard that during the pandemic -- all, all you privileged people are talking about how you can work from home, and I still need to fill-in-the-blank on a job that didn't, you know, and many heroes spent a lot of time putting themselves in very difficult situations, because they couldn't do it that way. So, you know, thank goodness that we could still be able to do that. Last thought on your, on your book. I put the, I've put the link in the chat a couple times; it will be available in the show notes as well. If you were to give the 1-minute elevator pitch on the value of what it brings somebody to read it, it's kind of why I had you here today, but mostly because I like hanging out with you.

Santor Nishizaki 57:11
Yeah, I mean, it's always fun.

Jim Collison 57:13
What's your elevator pitch for the book?

Santor Nishizaki 57:15
So the book comes out on February 7, is available on Amazon. And the book, the first half of the book is kind of the evolution of Gen Z. So that's that empathy part, which is how did they evolve, looking at parenting -- a lot of Gen Xer data there. So I think the Gen Xers will appreciate that. You know, we love you, Gen Xers. I know you don't get enough press. So the first half is all about Gen X and parenting style and the impact of technology on this generation. So the first half is the empathy. The second half is the compassion, which is how do we recruit, retain and lead them? And we have a lot of Gallup data in there too, to support our data too.

Jim Collison 57:52
No, looking forward -- comes out February 7, 2023.

Santor Nishizaki 57:56
That is correct.

Jim Collison 57:57
If you're listening to this after the fact, you can head out to Amazon, pick that up. Link's in the chat. If you're on YouTube, we'll try to get that in the show notes when we publish the podcast. But Santor, thanks for, one, thanks for being my friend. Two, thanks for all the conversations we've had. You know, we, we got together May of 2020. But you and I have had dozen or so conversations in between the time. And I always appreciate that. You've asked me some good questions. You've pinged me with some questions. So thanks for, thanks for hanging around the community. And thanks for being willing to come on today.

Santor Nishizaki 58:30
Thank you so much, Jim, I always appreciate all your mentoring too. You helped me start my podcast and gave me some good advice. So thank you. That's an impact.

Jim Collison 58:39
You hang tight for one second. We'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we do have available around this. Head out to and sign in; that's how you get into Gallup Access. For coaching, master coaching or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach like Santor is, you can send us an email: We'll have somebody call you back with the details and how you get that done. If you want to join us for the 2023 Gallup at Work Summit, now would be the right time to do that. But maybe it's after June of 2023. It's OK, we'll probably have another one in place. Head out to All the details are out there. And we're getting pretty close to releasing some more details around the agenda and some of those other things that are coming out. So make sure you stay up to date: Find us on any social media platform by searching "CliftonStrengths" -- whatever you prefer, whatever that platform is.

Santor Nishizaki 59:30

Jim Collison 59:31
We didn't, you know, we didn't even talk about the, the various social generations and social media platforms. That could be a whole conversation all on its own. If you joined us live, thanks for listening. If you're listening to the podcast, thanks for subscribing. If you're watching on YouTube, you can subscribe to the channel over there in the corner. Thanks for coming out today. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Santor Nishizaki's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Competition, Futuristic, Achiever, Positivity and Activator.

Learn more about using CliftonStrengths to help yourself and others succeed:

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