- How can leaders discover their life purpose and combine it with their CliftonStrengths for maximum impact?
- What can authenticity bring to leaders -- and coaches -- during times of change and disruption?
- How does resilience intertwine with purpose and authenticity in motivating leaders and executives to excellence?
Andrea Goseco, an ICF PCC-credentialed executive coach and a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, was our guest on a recent Called to Coach. Coach Anda, who has more than a decade of coaching experience, shared her insights on coaching leaders and executives during a pandemic. Leaders who are authentic know themselves really well, according to their CliftonStrengths and are able to manage themselves well are, in turn, better able to manage their work environment. And an integral part of knowing yourself well is identifying your purpose -- which is sometimes difficult for leaders to articulate. Together with authenticity and purpose, resilience is a key element for leaders to cultivate in themselves. Leaders who know their purpose, and are authentic and resilient, will be more open to changes they need to make in how they relate to others, so they can maximize their impact.
Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 9, Episode 10
So it becomes bigger than just that strength that you own by yourself. It's thinking about, How can I make an impact? How can I make a contribution? And that's what purpose really is.Andrea Goseco, 10:18
Authenticity is ... like our North Star. When everything around us changes ... it's something that we can't control. ... But who we are deep inside ... that's ours, and no one can take that away from us.Andrea Goseco, 4:15
We all are asking ourselves this question: Who is the person that we want to become? Who are we becoming? ... And [that] question ... helps you think about every action and every decision that you make every single day.Andrea Goseco, 14:27
Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and live from our virtual studios virtually around the world, this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on March 10, 2021.
Jim Collison 0:21
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's a link right above me on our live page. It'll take you to YouTube. Sign in with your Google account and join us in chat. We'll be taking your questions a little bit later in the program. If you're listening after the fact and you still have questions, send us an email: firstname.lastname@example.org. Don't forget to subscribe to Called to Coach on any podcast app; we're available out there. Or if you want to subscribe on YouTube, you can do that as well. Saurav Atri is our host today. Saurav is a Regional Director for Southeast Asia. And Saurav, it's always great to see you -- although you look like you're in a new location. Welcome back to Called to Coach!
Saurav Atri 1:10
Thank you, Jim. And yes, you know, slightly new location, different backdrop. And again, it's always great to be back on Called to Coach, Jim, with you, and with our featured guests as well. And today I'm really excited for the Southeast Asia edition. We've got coach Anda [Andrea] Goseco, who is an ICF PCC-credentialed coach and has been coaching for the past 11 years. She takes successful leaders to the next level of success by uncovering their blind spots, and focusing on team strategies that lead to high engagement and productivity. And as an executive coach, she is known to ask tough questions, which we'll get to explore today. And probing questions balanced with humility, empathy and respect to make coaching a safe place for them.
Saurav Atri 1:57
And she talks about, it's like a Rubik's Cube, you know, she has the ability to notice patterns and see how those pieces fit together with each other and find the right combination to unlock what leaders and teams need to get them to the next level. And we'll be diving deeper with her today, also exploring what she looks for in those patterns as well. So we can also learn a little bit there. She is certified with U.S.-based courses, including Gallup's Coach Certification, High-Performing Team Leader, and the CliftonStrengths Discovery Course as well. Coach Anda, welcome to the session today. And we'd love to get to know you better, starting with your Top 5.
Andrea Goseco 2:32
Yeah, thanks for having me, Saurav and Jim. I'm very excited to be here today. So my Top 5, which I use very often in coaching, is Individualization. I have Woo, I have Empathy, Positivity and Connectedness. And if you look at the 4 Domains of strengths, I'm really focused on the Influencing and Relationship Building. And what -- one of the strengths that I really use so often is my No. 1, which is Individualization. And so what that does is it looks at the patterns and the different nuances of people that I talk to. And I realized that ever since I was young, I loved doing that.
Andrea Goseco 3:10
But I think I was taking that for granted; I thought that everyone knew, knew how to do that. But when I took the Gallup course, I realized that I'm pretty unique in that way. And it's really helped me in coaching because it's helped me read people. And I like to kind of like, I describe myself as someone who likes solving like a Rubik's Cube puzzle. So like those are people puzzles. And it's also related to like big forensic scientists, in a way, looking at clues, trying to discover patterns, trying to see what the real root cause is. And I've used that a lot in my coaching.
Saurav Atri 3:44
Beautiful, thank you, Coach Anda. And you talked about being a scientist, you know, in approaching that, and I see a lot of scientists have their own niche that they work on. So what are your main themes in coaching and how do you use that in combination with CliftonStrengths?
Andrea Goseco 3:59
Yeah, so right now, especially during the pandemic, and it's a theme -- I have two themes that I usually use, and that is authenticity and resilience. And I find that ever since the pandemic started, these have been very useful themes. And, well, one is authenticity is so important because it's like our North Star. When everything around us changes, like the environment, the pandemic, it's something that we can't control, we have no control of. But who we are, who we are deep inside, who and who we are as individuals -- our individual personalities, our values, our beliefs -- that's ours, and no one can take that away from us. And for me, that's, that's our North Star. That's our strength. That's our anchor.
Andrea Goseco 4:40
And I help people really bring out that authenticity whenever I coach them. And when they're able to realize that, they're, they're able to manage the environment around, around them. Because my belief has always been if you're able to manage yourself -- if you're able to self-manage yourself and you know yourself really well -- you can manage the environment around you.
Andrea Goseco 5:01
A lot of times, people think that the environment -- controls them. And they let environment control them. But I always believe in that it's our reaction to the environment -- that's what we can control. So throw us anything -- throw us challenges or difficulties. It's how we face the environment. It's how we react to it and how we think about it. And that's what I use in coaching. So that's one, authenticity.
Andrea Goseco 5:24
Another is resilience. So resilience is something I think I picked up from my parents. So they taught me how to be resilient. And I feel like it's something that is very useful right now, especially with leaders and teams. It's the ability to be able to bounce back and resilience, combined with grit, also the ability to be able to persevere and to finish a task, no matter how difficult it is. And I think that's so important, especially in the world we live in today, where it's ever changing, so challenging, so many things happening. So if you use resilience, you're able to really face the situation head on, and you're able to bounce back from it and and come out as a winner.
Saurav Atri 6:04
Wow. I'm -- Coach Anda, these two topics are so close to my heart, and especially, you know, what we've been noticing as well in the industry, where you know, the world is going through a pandemic. But most importantly, we've been noticing as well there's a physical distance that has come in as people have moved from, worked from home, which is also creating somewhat of an emotional distance as well. And authenticity and resilience are two more very important ... right now that, you know, we've been hearing a lot more that coaches and leaders want to know more about. So tell us a little bit more. How do you use CliftonStrengths and authenticity in helping leaders as an executive coach to them?
Andrea Goseco 6:41
Yeah, very interesting question. Because one of the ways I use it is in helping them just honor who they are and recognize what's important to them. One way I use it is helping them identify what their purpose is. So usually in session 1 for the leaders that I coach, I help them come up with their purpose. And sometimes you think that if you're a leader in an organization, or a CEO, you already know what your purpose is. But the surprising thing is, a lot of people kind of know it, but then they're not able to really articulate it. So articulating it is very, very powerful.
Andrea Goseco 7:14
And I want to share, though, for, for people who have not taken the Clifton StrengthsFinder and who are, and coaches there who are coaching people without StrengthsFinder yet, there's a way to actually mine for strengths. So let me give you like a very interesting example. So I was coaching someone a few weeks back, and I was trying to mine what was important for, for her. And, and she was sharing with me that OK, I'll give you some guide questions that I ask, and so maybe that might be useful for you.
Andrea Goseco 7:44
And so, one, one question that I ask them is, "What are the things that you're drawn to?" Or "What are the things that excite you?" So give me the big things; give me the little things. And it's important to stress the little things, because a lot of times people start thinking, What are those big things that I'm drawn to? But you kind of give examples, like even the little things.
Andrea Goseco 8:02
So this client I was talking to, I said, OK, let's start with maybe outside work, and then we go to work. So what are the little things that excite you outside work? And you know, she started thinking; she said, "You know, I like watching Netflix." "Oh, Netflix. OK, tell me why you like watching Netflix." And she said, "Oh, I like watching Netflix because I'm able to see how people think and how they react to different situations. I like trying to read them, trying to anticipate their next move." Right. So I said, "That's great." And she said, "Also at home, I like spending time with my family. I like also calling friends, building close relationships with them." And then I said, "OK, great so what about work? What was it like at work?" And she said, "Oh, I work, I like in a meeting, I like being able to read people. I like being able to, to see what their thoughts are, what their motivations are, what drives them to do a certain task."
Andrea Goseco 8:56
So you can see already with those two examples, that there are common patterns that are coming out. So two patterns that can come out from this is Relator. So she likes spending time with people. You can see that people is there; it is present and understanding people and Netflix. But also spending time with friends, friends and relatives at home. And there's also that part about trying to understand how a person feels or how a person thinks, and that is Individualization. And so when I, when I confirmed that with her and I described what Individualization was and what Relator was, she said, "Oh yeah! That's who I am. That's really who I am."
Andrea Goseco 9:37
And then after that, like a, like, I think a few months later, I made her take the, take the test, the CliftonStrengths test. And, and that came out; that came out. It showed that she had Relator and she had Individualization. But what makes that conversation so powerful also in finding out what their strengths are -- I combine that with purpose. So strengths with purpose is so powerful. So what I do is, when they've identify, let's say that person, she's identified like, Yeah, I like developing people. I like being able to see how they think, how they feel. And then I connected that, OK, now that you know that what, what is the contribution that you can make to the people around you or the society or to the world around you?
Andrea Goseco 10:18
So it becomes bigger than, than just that strength that you own by yourself. It's thinking about, How can I make an impact? How can I make a contribution? And that's what purpose really is. I think we're also all created to be able to, to, to be able to make an impact in that, in that contribution to the world around us. And that's what makes a longer-lasting purpose. It's not about just for yourself, but for others around you.
Andrea Goseco 10:43
And throughout the coaching conversation -- I do a 6-month coaching conversation with people -- I always bring that back. Every time that I feel like they're losing their way or every time that, let's say, they're not able to go to the committed things that they're supposed to do, or the areas that they're supposed to work on, I go back to purpose. This is aligned to your purpose; this is connected to who you are. And it's, like I said earlier, strengths can be an anchor, and it really is an anchor when you use it strongly with purpose. Another -- go ahead.
Saurav Atri 11:15
No, that's -- please continue. Sorry.
Andrea Goseco 11:17
Oh, it's OK. Go ahead.
Saurav Atri 11:18
No, I just had a probing question on that one. So it's so interesting you mention around the patterns that you notice, Anda, especially around purpose as well. For the coaches listening in, you know, what could they be "listening-fors" in those conversations where you're able to pick up those cues as well? You know, I see this like a surgeon, you know, he knows, when he opens up a patient, he knows what to look for, because he's trained his eyes well. And that's what an executive coach over a decade of experience can do as well. So tell us a bit more about what patterns do you notice? And what do you listen for?
Andrea Goseco 11:48
Yeah, I like, I like your analogy, Saurav, surgeon. Yeah, it's like a surgeon who opens up a body and, like, knows already what to do with it. And, and listening, yeah, is listening is very important. Because when you listen, there's so many things that you're hearing. Right? So which are the things that you're going to be picking out from that? And so I think what you have to notice are the common things that they're saying, the patterns. Let's say, that for, that example, that I gave you that, that she was saying that "Oh, I like listening; I like, I like finding out, in Netflix, I like finding out what the character is thinking or feeling or what the character's next move is. So next move, character.
Andrea Goseco 12:25
And so, and there, and you're hearing that, what, what the, what she's talking about is they're the thoughts of that character, or what the character is feeling. So it's really going to the individual; it's going to the person. And then I try to verify that because that's, that's why I don't want them to just give me one example. I try to mine for more examples and I say, "Say more. Maybe you can give me more examples about how you use that at home." And so also, I forgot to mention earlier that the example she gave, when she, even she, when she, when she relates with her family, she tries to see, Oh, what, what will my mom like this? How do I best communicate with her? So she's trying to read into her mom or her dad, her brothers or sisters. And at work as well, she does the same thing, so that I can try to confirm it.
Andrea Goseco 13:14
So one rule that I have is, Don't rely on one example. Try to get as many examples as possible, and try to see the common words that they use. They may be using the words in many different ways. But if you see, if you try to write it down -- sometimes I write it down as I talk to them -- I see that there is a pattern, there is many ways of saying that. Like example, she's saying things like, "Yeah, I'm listening to how they're thinking, how they're feeling." Then she says it again, with her, about her mom and dad, though I'm able to just communicate to them because I know how they think and feel. In the office, when I'm able to -- in a meeting, I want to be able to see what that person needs. So you know, if you put that all together, it shows me a particular theme. And so because I kind of make nice -- yeah, because I kind of --
Saurav Atri 13:58
Excellent advice there on that, Anda. Just building on that a little bit more, I think there's a very interesting couple of comments coming through purpose part of it as well. How do you tie these stories back to the purpose, coach Anda?
Andrea Goseco 14:09
Yeah, so OK, so they, if they say that I like, "I'm someone, I realize that I'm someone who likes to help people, develop people. I like to be able to understand how they think and feel." And so with that, if you're a leader in an organization, you try to connect it to, What is your legacy? Or because we all, we all are asking ourselves this question: Who is the person that we want to become? Who are we becoming? It's always that question. And the question, Who are we becoming? helps you think about every action and every decision that you make every single day.
Andrea Goseco 14:41
So I always believe in acting purposefully or with intention. And to be able to do that, that's why you have to tie it back to your purpose. So and back to your question, Saurav, in creating that purpose. It's also thinking about, OK, so I'm a person who likes to be able to read people, to understand how they think and feel. And so connecting that with impact, or, or how do I impact the world around me? And so thinking about, so I, I'm a leader who wants to be able to understand how people think and feel, and I want to be able to leave a legacy by, by developing future leaders. I want to be able to grow them.
Andrea Goseco 15:22
And you know, when I say words like -- be careful also of general words like "grow." What do you mean by "growing"? So you have to make them clearly define what growth means for them. And so she's saying, Growth means that if I'm able to see that, you know, they've, they've really become better individuals, they've, in terms of their values, in terms of their skills as leaders. And that if they transfer to another company, they're all set. So that, for me, is purpose. So, so you can see, it's really beautiful, because it becomes bigger than yourself.
Saurav Atri 15:57
Wow. And as you think about that transition that you talked about growth, and I truly believe that leaders want that; they want to be better than what they are today, and that's why they seek an executive coach as well. How do you connect that growth to CliftonStrengths, and then use that as a segue for them to make that shift themselves, coach Anda?
Andrea Goseco 16:14
Yeah, so what I do is I try to highlight their Top 5 strengths, so knowing that this is their purpose. So if, let's say, Relator or Individualization has come out, but then they have 3 other strengths that they should take note of. So I try to bring that to light. I try to show them that OK, so now you have other 3 strengths. So now how do you all put that together in one, in one purpose, in one purpose statement or in what you are, what you want to do? Because really, for me, purpose is what we are built to be; what we believe in with ourselves; and what we're, you know, excited to do every single day.
Andrea Goseco 16:54
So if you put that all together and put the meaning on why we're doing that, and "Why" is a really big motivator. You have to know what your "Why" is in doing everything that you do. So combining all your Top 5 strengths, putting that, again, in, in one purpose, thinking about not just Individualization, Relator, the other 3 as well, and how do I now combine it with making an impact to the people that I want to develop will create that whole purpose statement. Does that -- does that answer your question?
Saurav Atri 17:24
Absolutely. And especially, you know, what might also help would be a specific story you have to share, especially in, you know, areas of struggle for growth for leaders -- you know, where they struggle, what some of the challenges are. What would you share with us that'll help us be aware that how we can do it as well in our own coaching, coach Anda?
Andrea Goseco 17:42
Yeah, so I like that question, Saurav, because I love uncovering blind spots. And maybe that's something -- one of the things I can share with you today, how I uncover blind spots. So blind spots, because blind, you can't see it, right. And reasons why we can't see blind spots is, one, is we don't want to admit that it's there. You know, we see it as like furniture, and you don't want to, you're so used to seeing it, we don't want to even admit that it's there. So we're afraid of it. And another one is, we really don't know; we're really blind to it.
Andrea Goseco 18:11
And so one way to do that is to, in a good way, is to look at your strengths in terms of balconies and basements. So for those who are not familiar yet with strengths, balcony is when you're using strengths in the best way and the best outcome, but balcony -- basement is when it's not, it's used in a, like in a negative way, or there's a negative outcome. So what we want to do in strengths is keep it balanced all the time. And one, one unique way I do this is for them to be able to keep it in balance. And so I work a lot with triggers in the environment and beliefs that you have about certain things.
Andrea Goseco 18:50
So, example I had a client who had very strong Command. And Command is a very good strength because it gets people together. It's a, it's a strength where you can influence people around you. In a good way, she was able to get her team together, get her team to follow; but in a not-so-good way, in the basement, she's, she came out as pushy, maybe sometimes saying things below the belt, too aggressive. So it's not, you can see it's, it's not balanced.
Andrea Goseco 19:17
And the way I did coaching with her is I helped her identify, you know, first, going back to purpose, what is the kind of leader you want to be anyway? And the interesting thing is, so she was saying that, "Oh, I want to be able to develop my people. I want to leave a legacy that when I leave this company that I've developed good leaders." And, you know, I had, like I, like you said earlier, Saurav, in my intro, I like asking tough questions. So I said, "OK, if you said that, that seems to be like it's not happening, from the feedback that I'm getting from the people around you. So, so now how do we live your purpose more? And, and you know, maybe let's start with understanding, when that happens to you -- when you start bringing your, your stress to the basement, the Command to the basement -- what is happening?"
Andrea Goseco 20:02
So I think that's a, that's a good question, like "What is happening around you? What are you experiencing? What are you thinking?" And so she realized in that activity is that the, the times when she, with the times that it happens, you have to ask yourself, "What is environment that triggers me to bring it to the basement?" So in that example, she realized that what triggers her are people who she feels like are not up to par with what she knows. And she gets irritated with people like that. So every time she's faced with someone like that, she really attacks that person, breaks that person down and all of that. And in her mind, she's rationalized the thought that, "Oh, this is my way of helping that person."
Andrea Goseco 20:42
So you see, another thing in understanding triggers is the thoughts that we have in our head. So her thought is, and the story she tells herself is, that, When I do that, I'm helping that person. I'm breaking that person down; it's good for that person. And so, but then she realized that it wasn't helping at all, because people were afraid of her people weren't approaching her. She wasn't that leader that she wanted to be. And then she had to rewrite that story in her head and her beliefs about it.
Andrea Goseco 21:12
And she realized that what she had to tell herself was that, when I use Command, I have to be able to use it in a good way. I have to be able to influence people. I have to ask my question, I have to ask that question to myself, How am I helping them? How can I help them in this situation? And one thing that I also use is, when you understand your environment, when you understand what triggers you, right, and you understand the thoughts that go in your head, that they're not really helping you because, you know, the action, when you act on something, it first starts with a thought. So you have to change the thought or the narrative in your head, because that's what really changes the action, the action steps that come after that.
Andrea Goseco 21:55
So she had, we had to really work on that; we had to dive deep. And then she realized that some of it was beliefs from the past, maybe even beliefs from childhood that she was carrying with her that were not working for her anymore. So, so one important step is once you know what your triggers are, once you know what the wrong narrative in your head is that's making those results happen, you have to stop and pause. So I've always believed in becoming reflective versus reactive, because we're so used to just reacting to anything that's thrown at us without realizing that we're not filtering -- that, and if we don't filter, maybe the result is not good.
Andrea Goseco 22:33
So one way to check if the, the reaction, our reaction is good or not is a question of stop and pause and ask, What will help me in this situation? What will help others in this situation? What will help the organization in this situation as well? So it's really understanding how your strengths plays, and balcony and basement and finding that balance. And so what I just shared with you today is how to bring your strengths back in balance. And I find that using strengths, it's a, it's a great way for people to receive that kind of feedback on the areas that they need to work on.
Andrea Goseco 23:10
So let's say I'm working with a team, and the team is helping their, their group, the leader is helping their team help their group develop and work on the areas of growth. It's a good way to give feedback, because you can say that, Oh, look -- you have this theme, an example, you have Ideation, and it's great. You have this at the balcony; there are great things about it. But there's, with every strength, every strength has a corresponding basement. So you have to know what the basement is to be able to bring it up to balance.
Andrea Goseco 23:40
So it turns out to be like a fun conversation, a very interesting one and a conversation for the for curiosity, instead of a conversation where you feel like, Oh, I feel insulted, or I feel like defensive or I feel like you're criticizing me. So it comes out in a more positive way. It's a, it's a more positive language, when you use, use it with, using the language of strengths.
Saurav Atri 24:03
I really like that reflective versus reactive approach and sort of managing your triggers, coach Anda. How do you help them keep this sustainable? Because people are also biased with their own perspectives and own programming. How do you, how do you help them create sustainability in this?
Andrea Goseco 24:21
Yeah, I always tell people that I don't know if you've heard of the "New Year's Resolution Syndrome." That's why, when, at the start of the new year, like 2021, you, "Oh, I want to be this and that this year," and then after 2 months, 3 months, it's gone. You're back to normal. So the problem with that is there is that there's an intention, right, intention that "I want to be that." But the problem is if you just stay with intention, if you just stay with realization, it just stays there. The hardest part about change, it's not the realization -- for me, it's the action step. Because the action steps are the changes that you need to make your adjustments that you need to make to yourself and to your life to make that happen.
Andrea Goseco 25:03
That's why it goes back again to purpose. It all goes back to, Why am I doing this? Why do I have to do this? Why do I have to change? And you realize that, wait, wait -- it's connected to who I want to be. It's connected to my purpose. And so what I want to say is the key, the key step that you need to do is to be very, very intentional -- not just intentional in terms of thought, but in action as well.
Andrea Goseco 25:26
So every single day, let's say you wake up in the morning, you say, "Oh, I want to be a better leader today, because I want to have more empathy." And you have to not just say "empathy," but how do you want to have more empathy? "Yeah, I want to be able to reach out to people, listen to them more than talk" -- that's a specific way, so you have to be very specific with the action step that you're going to do. And at the end of the day, you can do a check-in with yourself. So you're kind of coaching yourself; if you don't have a coach, you can definitely coach yourself.
Andrea Goseco 25:52
So in the morning, you, you, you start off with that intention when you wake up, so you don't have to think about it, because it's already in your thoughts. So at the end of the day, you can ask yourself, "How was I able to have more empathy today? How was I able to listen more to people? How was I able able to reach out to them and really honor who they are and validate and acknowledge what's important for them?" And so, and I like using scales as well. So I say, "On a scale of 1 to 10, how was I today?" Oh, I was a 3 today, OK, that's OK. So tomorrow, I can try to aim at a 4 or a 5.
Andrea Goseco 26:25
So, and in this whole change process, it's easy to learn a skill, but the hardest thing is, when you want to be able to change your behavior, it takes some time. So I want to say that, in being able to bring your, your strengths, also from balcony, from basement to balcony to something in the middle also, is to be very patient and kind with yourself, because change is a process, and it will take time. But as long as you're intentional about it in action and in thought, every single day, it's definitely going to happen. I've seen it change; I've seen it happen. Usually, if you're very purposeful and you're committed and you're intentional, it's going to happen in, in 2 to 3 months. I've seen it happen with the leaders that I coached. And then the fourth, through the fourth, fifth and sixth months -- because I, like I said, I coach leaders for 6 months, is really just, you know, just getting used to the habit and just building that habit.
Andrea Goseco 27:17
The hardest part to remember, I'm not going to sugarcoat it -- is the first 2 to 3 months of change. You've seen that in the pandemic, you know, that's the biggest change we've had. But we're slowly moving through acceptance of already, because we can, we're finding ways to work around it -- in the same way that any change that's gonna -- that's happening to us especially, we have to give it time. And we have to be patient with ourselves and kind to ourselves as well.
Saurav Atri 27:42
Wow, that's such a great insights there. What I'd like, coach Anda, you're given practical tips around how to stay reflective, how to stay, build that ability to create growth as well. And especially in the pandemic. Now, we've also been noticing a lot of conversation around emotional resilience as well. I know that's a topic that you talk a lot more about, and Lisa also mentioned in the chat that she really liked your your definition of "resilience" as well. Tell us a little bit more about how do you use resilience with strengths coaching?
Andrea Goseco 28:12
OK. Very interesting. Because during the pandemic, a lot of emotions were present, right for everyone. For -- no one was spared of that. We all went through different stages. And the way I like to use it is, example, you, when you get up in the morning and you don't feel like working. You don't feel like doing anything; you just want to stay in bed. And so the way to do it is to think about it in the lens of strengths. So what are my 5 strengths, Top 5 strengths? And how do I handle this day using my Top 5 strengths?
Andrea Goseco 28:45
So when you're able to approach it that way, you're able to realize that you have the internal tools. Because sometimes what makes us overwhelmed is that, "Oh my gosh, I can't solve this situation. I don't have the tools; I don't have anyone to help me." You know, we like, we catastrophize. So if we catastrophize, we feel like we're so helpless and -- or hopeless. But realizing that we do have the internal tools in us. That's why I always use our -- it's back to authenticity again. Combine it with authenticity is knowing that you have the power and, and, and internally, you have the capabilities and you have the tools in you to make that happen.
Andrea Goseco 29:21
So knowing your Top 5 strengths, you're able to actually approach the day in the lens of strengths. So like, How do I approach my day today? You maybe can anticipate the challenges you might face. Maybe you're about to face a difficult person in the office; you're about to do, make a difficult decision, so how do, I how do I approach it in the lens of strengths as well?
Andrea Goseco 29:41
So that helps you just, it gives you a clue to what's going to keep you engaged. And sometimes also when you're doing your work already for, during the day. So I talk about the beginning of the day, but during the day also when you feel disengaged, when you feel like there's low energy. So, you know, you first feel that in your body. You know, something aches, your stomach is in knots, you know, your shoulders start aching, so there's something going on.
Andrea Goseco 30:04
So when that happens, you just pause. Again, the words of self-compassion is, Be kind to yourself and just sit and think about where you are at that, at that moment. So I think the first step is to just recognize your feelings, recognize where you are, and it's OK not to be OK. And then, so when you recognize that, it's easier to solve a problem, because you're acknowledging your, your difficult feelings. And as you acknowledge your difficult feelings, the next step is for you to think about, "OK, so now that I feel that way and I recognize that, so what can I do now?" So using my internal toolbox, using my Top 5 strengths, so now how do I face my day and face my challenge, challenges using my Top 5 strengths?
Andrea Goseco 30:50
I mentioned also, during the day, when you feel like you're low energy, you can even look at your Top 5 strengths. So it's like a, it's like a, what do you call this, it's like a guide that you always kind of refer to all the time. So you look at it and say, "Oh, I feel like maybe Ideation is missing, or I feel like maybe Connectedness is missing, or I feel like, I need to be able to check, do a checklist, and I have Achiever, and maybe there's certain things I feel like I haven't achieved. So maybe, how can I create small wins? So it's, it's finding, it's a clue also to why you don't feel engaged. So you can always refer to your Top 5 strengths and think about which among these, these themes are not being addressed today, and that I need to do more of?
Andrea Goseco 31:34
Another way to use resilience is, let's say there are tasks in the office or a task at home, even, that you don't like doing, right. So with the, with the roles we play, there are tasks that we love, but there are also tasks that we don't want to do but we have to do it because it's our role. One way to be able to motivate ourselves -- and I'm very big with motivation and "why" -- so once you know your "why" and your motivation, you're able to really ask yourself, "OK, so now, I don't want to do this, I really don't. But then how do I use strengths to be able to help me do this task? How do I encourage myself to do this task?"
Andrea Goseco 32:13
And let me give you an example. I was coaching a leader, and she was very strong with her Strategic Thinking strengths. There was a lot of that Strategic Thinking, Execution, but she didn't have Relationship Building. And so in our coaching conversation, she, she realized that as a leader, she cannot escape from working with people, right. People is an essential part of a leader of any organization. And she said, "Can't I just give them tasks to do? Can't I just tell them the direction and, you know, just leave them there?" But that, it doesn't end there. As a leader, it's all about people.
Andrea Goseco 32:46
So what I did with her is OK, I said, "I know the tasks you don't want to do, but it's a requirement as a leader. So now how do we use your lens, using your lens of strengths?" So what she did was, she started thinking of it as, OK, I am Strategic. I am always Futuristic. So I have to think about, If I don't take care of my people now, if I don't develop them, what's going to happen to my group? What's going to happen to the organization?
Andrea Goseco 33:14
So what I do is a lot of value, value-based coaching. And like I ask them, "What's the value that you're gonna lose out on?" Or "What's the value that, if you, if you continue to do this, if you continue to change and to reach out to people, what value will it give you?" And then, and I tie that up to strengths, and she realized that, Oh, maybe I'll have like, if I'm able to level up, they'll even help me plan for the future. They're going to also be able to help me be more efficient also, because my role as a leader is I'm a Strategic Thinker. So if I'm, if I'm able to do this, then maybe I can focus more on strategy rather than operations.
Andrea Goseco 33:54
So you see, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to put more meaning in what they're doing, even if it's something that they don't want to do. So you have to always find the meaning; you can't just tell people, "Do this and do that." Or you can't tell yourself, "I have to do this." If you say, "I have to do it," you're just going to drag your feet. So you have to put the "why" in everything that you're doing. Why am I doing this anyway? Why is it so important for me? What's the bigger picture in this? And connect it to my purpose -- Where am I heading with all of this? So helicopter view all the time is always a lot of zooming in and zooming out. So zooming in, where I'm zooming in is like the details of it. But zooming out, wait, what is all of this? So how can I make sense of all of what I'm seeing? What is the meaning in all of this? It's really the meaning in all of what we're doing that's going to motivate us to do what we, what we want to do and what we have to do.
Saurav Atri 34:42
Love that, coach Anda -- having that North Star always in your sight is such an important ingredient, especially for leaders where your decisions impact, you know, hundreds and thousands of people's lives as well. And as you think about, you know, at that leadership level, one of the key things that people talk about -- and they get pretty nutty about it is -- Hey, I need to build Empathy. You know, I, Empathy showed up in the Bottom 5 and and they say, you know, What does that mean for us? So what's your tips and practical advice of how leaders can be more emotionally intelligent, you know, when leading people -- especially when they don't lead with, you know, high Relationship themes, coach Anda?
Andrea Goseco 35:20
Yeah. So one way to do that is to say, if you look at your 4 Quadrants, right, of strengths -- so that's Relationship Building, Influencing, Strategic Thinking and Execution -- and you find out that the areas that you're more strong at is, let's say, Strategic Thinking, right, and Execution. And so I go back to being intentional about it. So you have, when you see that, OK, maybe it's not second nature for me to have these Relationship Building strengths or these Influencing strengths. So what do I need to do more of to be able to bring that out, using my Strategic and Execution?
Andrea Goseco 36:01
So example if, like, I'm strong with Execution strengths, so it's something that if I do, I'm going to combine it with Strategic also, so if I do this, if I put it in my checklist, I'm able to achieve this. And so think of it as a task, as something that you want to get done; something that if you get it done, it's connected to the higher purpose, it's connected to what you want for the future. I think it's being really intentional about, and if you're talking about emotional intelligence, one question that I've always asked leaders ever since the start of the pandemic, is, "What is your people's strategy?" And you have to bring that to the forefront.
Andrea Goseco 36:39
Because I think I mentioned this sort of in an earlier conversation that leaders a lot of times focus on the goals, like the, let's say, the number goals, or the strategies of the business. I think that's great. And that's really what the business is about. But more of what the business is about are the people that work with you. So you have to be able to see how people are doing things, because it's the "how" that will make the numbers happen. It's also, it's the "how" that will make the strategy happen. The "how" is more of how people operate; not just how you operate, but how the people around you operate as well.
Andrea Goseco 37:16
And if you're very concerned about that, if you're concerned and you care about How do I operate and how do the members of my team operate? Even how my boss operates and how my peers operate as well and being intentional about that and making sure that before you enter into a conversation and just tell yourself, you know, I I'm a believer of, Don't rush into a meeting right away; just go and do it. Because that's when you become more reactive again than reflective.
Andrea Goseco 37:44
So maybe 10 minutes before the conversation, you kind of like, take a step back and think, "OK, who am I meeting with? What's the purpose of this meeting?" But also think about, "What kind of a leader should I be in this meeting?" or "What does the people need from me in this meeting, what are, what do they need?" And maybe even telling yourself, "I need to listen more; I need to hear what, what they, what they, what they, what is important for them." Because a lot of times in meetings, also, we come in the meeting, and it's not a meeting; it's about just us meeting ourselves. So we can kind of just tell people, "This is what I want," without really listening to them.
Andrea Goseco 38:17
And the other day, like, I was having, I was talking to a stakeholder or a team member of someone I was coaching. And she was saying that, "Yeah, she said that, 'Yeah, listen, I'm here to listen to you.' But in action, when I'm there, when I'm sharing something, she cuts me off." So that's not really listening. So you have to give people the space, the space to be able to talk, the space to be able to express themselves. And you can, you can acknowledge them; you can acknowledge, like, "Oh, that's great." And you can even use the lens of strengths and acknowledge, and "Oh, great, you were a great, you did a great research here," or "You're able to communicate well; that's great."
Andrea Goseco 38:55
So acknowledging them and acknowledging their thoughts, their feeling, feelings, will make them feel they're, they're validated. Because really, I think, deep inside, everyone wants to just be validated and everyone wants to be acknowledged, and, and honored as well. So if you're able to do that, then you're able to connect with people, because that's also a common question like, How do I connect with my team? How do I influence them during this time of pandemic? So that's just a little way, but you know that little way will go really, really big if you're doing that to every single person that you meet in the office, in the organization, you're doing that with intention with every single meeting.
Saurav Atri 39:35
Wow, I can see so much of passion and good sense, so much of passion that you have on this topic as well, coach Anda, so thank you for sharing that passion as well. And also just kind of building on, you know, that listening topic you brought in, which is so critical right now. You know, we need to listen better, we need to listen more. And I truly believe listening is what creates trust in people versus talking. So I know a lot of leaders been asking us, you know, I'm a weak -- they say, "I'm a weak listener." What tips and advice do you have for them to listen better?
Andrea Goseco 40:02
OK, so they're a weak listener. Again, it has to go with, Why am I doing this? Why am I not listening to people? And maybe, OK, let me share with you the common things that I've received from the leaders I've coached. Sometimes it's about, "Oh, I want to get this done right away," or "I have no patience to teach this person, I have no patience to hear them," like, "Well, I know already the answer." So again, it goes back to the question, Is that helping the person that you're talking to? Or also thinking about, you may be missing out on what this person is trying to say.
Andrea Goseco 40:35
Because sometimes, so we have a lot of assumptions, you know, we have a lot of assumptions about people. So it's letting your assumptions out the door. And every time you talk to someone, it's a blank slate -- even if this person has, you know, like has done maybe bad things to you, and you've already, in your head, you've already marked them. So I always believe in giving people chances. So when you're able to do a blank slate and just listen to them, you're able to hear their story, hear where they're coming from. And I feel that if you're not able to cut them, and you're able to really listen to them, then you're able to really communicate in a way that they will actually listen to you or that, and to communicate in a way that's important for them.
Andrea Goseco 41:12
So I think it's, it's, and to be able to listen is to just be quiet and know, and also be careful of your facial expressions, even if you're frowning, you're scratching your head, you know, that's a, that's a sign of, you know, like you, like you, you're questioning what they're saying. So just also be careful of how you're presenting yourself in words, the tone of voice, in your facial expression, in the actions that you use, as well. Try to stay as neutral and just listen. And so the more you listen, the more they'll really feel like opening up.
Andrea Goseco 41:44
So the story I shared with you earlier about the person who was very strong in Command, do you know what happened to her? So after our 6, 6-month coaching program, and actually it was already showing at the third or fourth month, she said, "Oh, what's happening? You know, people are just approaching me, asking me questions. That's never happened before!" And she was telling me, "I was always the one who was telling them what to do. But, but now, they're the ones going to me. They're the ones asking me questions. They're the ones giving suggestions, without me even telling them. What did I do?" I was like, "Ask yourself what you did." And she said, "Oh, I remember now. It's these little things I thought were little but they're actually big things."
Andrea Goseco 42:19
So it's a, it's like I said, it's these things I just shared with you, it's the, it has to first start with intention. It has to first start with caring for the person that you're talking to. Because if you just do it, "Oh, it's a job. I have to do it because it's a job. I have to do this because I have to hit my numbers." So you have to do it also with, "I really care for this person." And it's going to show, because if you don't start with that, the person that you're talking to will see it. So it's approaching it with that kind of empathy. So trying to connect with them, trying to just listen to them and care about them. I think that's important.
Saurav Atri 42:53
I love that, you know, what I'm also hearing here, coach Anda, is listening requires authenticity as well. You have been genuinely interested in that person and their stories to explore more. And also there was a question that came in earlier by Lisa, around tough questions. You know, what could be some examples of tough questions coaches here could walk away with that you typically use that have worked for you?
Andrea Goseco 43:19
That, that I use in coaching sessions, you mean? Yeah. So like one was when I shared with, "You mentioned that this is your purpose, right. And this is what's important for you. But right now I'm noticing that you're saying this. And it seems like a little bit different from what you were saying that you wanted for yourself. So say more about that." So you don't kind of tell them that, "Hey, you did wrong," or "Hey, it's not, it's misaligned," or something, you make them see for themselves. So you present the, you present the facts to them, you show it to them. And they're the ones who kind of see it already, that there is a disconnect over there. Right?
Andrea Goseco 43:59
So that's a, that's a tough question I usually bring out with people. So I call them out in that way. But it's a gentle way of making them call out. So it's not, and it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not me telling them what to do or me telling them that this is what happened. It's making them realize. Because in a coaching conversation, when you make them realize it and when you make them admit it, they become more accountable to the process. Because if you did that, then they won't be as accountable because you told them, right. So the far more powerful way to do it is make them accountable for it.
Andrea Goseco 44:32
Also, in coaching, like I ask them, "If you, let's say, if you continue doing this, what value will it give you?" Let's say if it's something that's not helping them, right. So I can ask a question like, "How is this helping you? How is this not helping you? And in doing this, what value is it giving you?" And then if they can't think of the value, then they should stop doing it. If they think of the value, then continue doing it.
Andrea Goseco 44:58
So I like to work with cost-benefit a lot; cost-benefit analysis. So it's like a business, business lingo, but then you can use it for anything, actually. And then, so I like also some tough questions is, "If you, you know, if you pull out of the situation and you look at this helicopter view, what do you think is really happening in this situation?"
Andrea Goseco 45:18
So I'm not afraid to actually talk to clients and face, you know, face them head-on and really ask them, "How is it serving -- how is it serving you? How is it not serving you? Is it helping you? How is it not helping you?" Because if you have the client's best interests in mind, and not your best interest or (if you're a coach). Or if you're a leader, and you have the person's best interests in mind, the words that were going to come out of your mouth are more for the person that you're talking to.
Andrea Goseco 45:47
But if you remember situations where it's all about you, the words that are coming out of your mouth are all, all what's, what's gonna work for you or all what's best for you. It's weird; you're trying to help them, but you're coming from your own point of view. So a lot of it is just realizing that you want the best out of them. And so you feel like there's something this, that some intuition that's telling you like, I have to ask this question, I have to help them clarify things. Then ask the question then.
Andrea Goseco 46:15
Sometimes in coaching sessions, even difficult, difficult question is when people start crying, you know. So I don't make it like a, don't make them cry all the time. I mean, it's not supposed to be all about that. But if tears come out, I ask them, "Where is that coming from? What are you feeling?" Because, like I said, the -- once you're able to acknowledge and to name what you're feeling and to name what's going on, then it helps you also move forward. So you're helping people as a coach, or as a leader, if you're talking to people under you, you're helping people identify what their thoughts are, what they're feeling, what their patterns are. And then the more that they're able to see it, the more they're able to come up with solutions on their own.
Andrea Goseco 46:58
The reason I think why people are stuck sometimes is that they can't see it. So I think the role of a coach or a role of a leader is to help people see it -- see where they're stuck. And that goes with a lot of digging, a lot of digging, a lot of finding clues, a lot of finding patterns also, and showing that, showing that, presenting that to the person you're talking to and helping them solve it. Yeah.
Saurav Atri 47:22
Great. And that actually tied to a question Lisa has also asked on that, Anda. Could you talk a little bit more about blind spots and helping leaders see what they don't see for themselves? So how do you help the execs see blind spots you hear about from others?
Andrea Goseco 47:39
OK, so the way I like to do it is another, in a gentle way. So let's say, because my process is always getting, you know, often feedback from the people who work with the leaders. So what I do is, I make them focus first on their own self-assessment. So I tell them, "What do you think are the areas that you need to work on?" Or I present to them their strengths. "OK, these are your strengths. But in looking at your strengths, how can these strengths be used in the wrong way? or How can these strengths be used in the basement?" And so when they come up with that, they say all of that, guess what? Whatever the feedback that the people are seeing around them, it's the same, it's very similar to what they're saying. So it just, it just sort of cements or it reinforces what the, what the other people have said about them. And that makes them want to go, like, "I see I see it. I see it already. It's important. OK, I'm gonna work on it now." Yeah. So that's one way to make them really want to do it. Yeah.
Saurav Atri 48:41
Excellent -- sorry, just want to check in on what's been some of the biggest insights you have gained in your coaching, especially coaching around authenticity and resilience? What have been some of your own learnings as you're coaching all these leaders as well?
Andrea Goseco 48:58
Oh, OK. Well, for myself, it's actually, it's nice, because this whole coaching journey has helped me also realize a lot of things about myself, people, the world around me as well. And I think that's the, that's a nice thing about the, this interaction. So I think, even if you're not a coach but you're a leader as well, it's if you open up yourself to, to that, then there's a lot of things you'll realize. So with authenticity, for me, I realized that it's hard to be authentic, because a lot of times you want to be someone else sometimes. So because it's, you, you want to, you're wondering if people are going to accept you, are going to like you, or sometimes you, you want to change for certain people. And I think that when you do that, it's, it's something that you're kind of fighting against, because it's not you.
Andrea Goseco 49:46
So I think the more that you just accept who you are, the more if you work with what you have, it's actually a lot easier to be that way. And like I said, as, as leaders also in an organization, if you use that and using tie it up to strengths also, being authentically you, using your Top 5 strengths, and not wanting, Why didn't I have this strength? Or why don't I have this and why don't I have that strength? It's harder because it's not naturally. But if you just practice that with intention every single day, and just, I think, celebrate that is important. And we, sometimes we forget to celebrate that, "Oh, this is, I was good at this because I had Woo," or "I did this because as Empathy," and you know, just saying it out loud. Like I said, like the Naming part of strengths, and saying it out loud, makes you acknowledge it more. Because I think we don't do too much of that -- acknowledging ourselves.
Andrea Goseco 50:38
So the way to bring out authenticity more is just to acknowledge what it is and say it out loud what it was. So I was able to use Competition here, I was able to use Strategic Thinking, I was able to use, you know. So just saying, saying that and, and staying with a feeling. I think there's a difference also, Saurav, with, saying it and not feeling it. Because if, if you, if you remember, if you think about this, the things that we remember in our lives, the experiences that we remember in our lives, are the ones we strongly felt about, right -- the excitement, the sadness, the joy. So if we can just sit with it, sit with it, sit, acknowledge what our strengths are and sit with the feeling that came with it, then we're going to remember that, and the more I think we're going to acknowledge who we are.
Andrea Goseco 51:26
So I think that's the missing part also that we're not able to just celebrate who we are and just sit with ourselves and enjoy the moment or enjoy what made that, what we did successful and what made what we did work. So I think that's important.
Andrea Goseco 51:41
Then, the other part, resilience, is also important, because I feel like it's a, it's what's going to get us through. If we're able to use resilience and purpose, really, and use purpose, that purpose as our North Star. So even in sports, and if you do sports, if you're an athlete also, the reason why athletes are able to win in competitions, or teams are able to win in competition is because they have a strong sense of purpose.
Andrea Goseco 52:09
So even if the going gets tough, and I don't want to do this; I want to give up, what's going to give you grit and what's going to give you resilience is that purpose, is a strong sense of, This is who I am; this is where I want to go. And I'm just going to keep on doing this even if it's hard. So I think it's, it's remembering that as well and, and knowing that you have a toolbox, because a lot of times, we feel like we're alone. "I'm alone. I can't do this. I'm helpless. It's impossible." No, I, like I always tell my son, that there's a solution to everything, to every, every challenge that we have. So the solution lies within us. We have our internal tools; we can find ways to make that happen. We just have to search inside ourselves and ask ourselves, where are the strengths that we have? Where are the, maybe the mindsets we need to change? And not thinking that the world around us is controlling us, but we have the power to control things around us.
Andrea Goseco 53:04
So again, going back to being reflective versus reactive, the more reflective you are, the more you're able to manage your reactions, the more you're able to control the environment around you. And you're, the more you're not able to make the environment take hold of you. So there's a, there's a very, very big difference there.
Saurav Atri 53:23
I like that, especially in the current environment where people want strength within them. And what I'm hearing and I'm sensing, and the analogy that's coming to me right now, coach Anda, is your purpose is your renewable source of energy. It's, it's constant motivation; you can always rely on that, whereas money and other factors of motivation could be like oil -- it runs out. But purpose, you know, is constantly gonna keep giving you that motivation as well.
Saurav Atri 53:50
So I love how you've been able to ask really important tough, yet caring questions around, you know, What's your people strategy? And what kind of leader do you want to be? And sort of helping them be more reflective than reactive. I love how you're sort of intertwining these things to help them be more authentic as well. And a couple of questions that have come through, you know, from Jerome as well: How do you handle clients who are hardheaded? How do you, how do you deal with those?
Andrea Goseco 54:17
OK, so I have a lot of that. And those are my favorite clients. And as you know, like in one of my, my, one of my Top 5 strengths is Woo. So that's, that's charm -- I'm just kidding -- you know, or winning others over. So I love winning difficult people over; I really do. And so, but there are techniques to do that. I think it's, it's like a different approach. It's meeting again them where they are. So a lot of it is you can't force things at first; you have to, there's a lot of acknowledging, I think. So with people who are tough, maybe they're trying to show you a tough exterior, but deep inside there's a lot of things going on. So there's a lot of acknowledgment that you have to have.
Andrea Goseco 54:58
So let's say, I had a client before, really, really great in what he was doing; he was like the "think pack" of the organization, like really genius. But the thing is, he did, he felt he was great. And he didn't want to listen to anyone. And so what I did with him -- but he had a lot of things that he had to work on, because he thought he was so good that he thought that other ideas were not good, or he wasn't listening to other people. So the way I approached it was, I asked, I used it again in the lens of strengths. And I said, "OK, so let's look at your top strengths. And let's look at the ways where this can really get in the way." And so he saw that.
Andrea Goseco 55:35
But I felt that that wasn't enough, and that needed, like hard evidence. So that's when I got the feedback from the people around him. And I said that, you know, if you work with these people around you, and they're kind of saying that, what do you think of that? And, you know, interesting, he was getting defensive, like, "No, that's not me. I'm not like that. So it's -- no, no, no, no." And I said, "OK, wait, hold on, hold on. Let's take a, you know, take a deep breath. And let's just try to look at this in, just out of curiosity, you know, in a curious lens. And so what, what do you think made the person say that? Maybe there was some incidents that you had before, that, maybe a small incident," you know, I use, like, kind of words, like "small incident," you know, but it's really a big incident. So, you know, "a small incident or something in the past that happened that just made that person think that way; maybe there was something." Or, you know, "Let's, let's go back and think about it."
Andrea Goseco 56:28
And so with thinkers like that, they just like to, you know, just think and say and say and say things. So I was like, "Just pause." So you're also helping them learn the value of thinking, of pause. "I'll give you a few minutes. Think about it." And then he did. He was like, "Oh, wait a minute, there was this time with this person ... ." I was like, "There! Exactly." So I was more gentle with him. I said, "OK, so now that you see that," again, I tied it up with purpose. "Remember, you said that you wanted to be this kind of a leader. You wanted this to happen. You wanted to make this impact in the organization. So now, if you focus on these areas that they're talking about, how will this help you reach your goal?"
Andrea Goseco 57:03
See, so there's a, when they see the value of "I don't want to do that," they're saying that it's not important. But when they see how important it is for them, how it's tied up to their motivation, or their, it's tied up to their purpose, then they're going to want to do it. So yeah, so with that question, it's really a more gentle approach, more of encouraging, more of, like, acknowledging all the time what he's saying. But of course, there are things that you don't agree on. You, know, you just be quiet, just say mmm, just nod your head, just listen. Because I don't agree -- I mean, if there are things that I don't agree with, I don't say like, "Yes, I agree." You know, I'm very honest anyway. So I, I just say like, "OK, yes, you said that. OK, I see that. Uh-huh."
Andrea Goseco 57:44
So, yeah, so that kind of approach -- gentle, affirming, but also slowly, like trying to find their way to show him the value of that to him. Because it's a lot about, for people who are like that, sometimes it can be egotistical. So it goes back to, "It's OK. You're saying that this is important for you. So how will this help you? How will be this of value to you? So what are the benefits of doing this?" When they realize the benefits of that, and they even list it down with you, then they're going to realize, Oh, OK, I want to do that. And when they forget that -- and they will forget that -- let's say in 2 months have passed, and they're back. They're back. They're back to doing that. And I go back to, again, the, my tough question would be, "What is the value of this again? Remember, you mentioned that these are the list of values that you'll get out of this. What was that again?" And so it makes them want to do it because they said it.
Saurav Atri 58:34
Beautiful. Thank you, coach Anda, this has been very insightful. And as you know, sort of we're coming to the close of the session today, it's on the hour. I've learned a lot from today as well that, you know, your amazing humility and what you bring is being a coach who coaches with courage and care. So thank you for being you and bringing authenticity and resilience to our leadership. You know, the message you talked about was, you know, I have a little show-and-tell, so which is around you know, you talk about different emotions people have -- loved this movie "Inside Out." So anger, joy, you know, envy, you know, sadness. And this is an insight for all the coaches listening in: Bring your best, bring your authentic side in your coaching as well. Because while we are helping others be authentic, and others, you know, be resilient, we start with ourselves first. So thank you, coach Anda. This has been an honor and pleasure listening to you. Jim, over back to you to bring this home as well. Any final thoughts?
Jim Collison 59:33
Yeah, no, great conversation. We're out of time for questions, but Saurav, you did my job for me, so that's always kind of nice. You brought all the questions in in real time. So appreciate, and then coach Anda, thank you for joining us this evening or tomorrow morning. How's the -- the future's OK, I, I assume at this point -- you guys are in the future, and it looks bright.
Jim Collison 59:53
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Andrea Goseco's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Individualization, Empathy, Woo, Positivity and Connectedness.