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Developing Your Emotional Intelligence With CliftonStrengths

Developing Your Emotional Intelligence With CliftonStrengths

Webcast Details

  • What is "emotional intelligence," and what are the 6 core competencies of such intelligence?
  • How can you develop each of these competencies?
  • Why and how is CliftonStrengths a good starting place for developing emotional intelligence?

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 10, Episode 2.

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

What do we mean when we talk about "emotional intelligence"? Why are emotional intelligence skills "as important as your intellect -- and ... probably more important"? And how can your unique CliftonStrengths provide a foundation for developing your and others' emotional intelligence? Join our hosts and Lynn Garbers, Management Consultant and Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, for an intriguing discussion based on her expertise and experience in the area of strengths and emotional intelligence.

Emotional intelligence ... [is] a set of skills. So it means that you can enhance, it means you can get better at these competencies that help us better perceive, understand and manage emotion in ourselves and others.

Lynn Garbers, 13:04

The thing that I really like about this combination of emotional intelligence and using strengths to ... help build this emotional intelligence is that it is efficient. And today, people want efficiency.

Lynn Garbers, 34:11

In terms of positive influence, your emotional state is infectious. And so ... it can be infectious negative. I know I want mine to be infectious positive.

Lynn Garbers, 38:15

Jim Collison 0:01
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on December 22, 2021.

Jim Collison 0:21
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room -- right above Bruno there is the link to our chat room. Click on it; it'll take you to YouTube. Sign in with a Google account, and we'd love to have you in chat for your questions. If you're listening after the fact and you have questions, you can always send us an email: Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. You can do that right there on YouTube; it'll notify you whenever we publish something new. Bruno Zadeh is our host today. He works as a Coaching Community Leader in APAC with Gallup, and Bruno, it's always great to -- thank you for closing out 2021 with me. Welcome back to Called to Coach!

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Bruno Zadeh 1:08
Thank you, Jim. It's great to be with you and welcome Lynn to the show. So I'm very happy to have you. So today I have a special guest. It's Lynn Garbers. Lynn is based in Melbourne, Australia. She's an American, originally from Boston, and New Jersey a little bit, as I heard. So Lynn run her own management consulting firm since the last 15 years. She's a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, but she's also certified on many other certifications. And what I love in this show, it's Lynn will bring a lot of insight and different perspectives. Lynn's Top 5 are Connectedness, Relator, Empathy, Individualization and Activator. So it's a lot of blue -- I can see a lot of Building Relationship here.

Bruno Zadeh 2:01
Lynn is also certified in emotional intelligence, and it's -- she took accreditation with Genos, and the particularity of the topic today, it's how to develop emotional intelligence using CliftonStrengths. And the reason I invited Lynn in this podcast, it's Genos it's all about the workplace and performance using emotional intelligence. So it's what we will cover today. Lynn is also a big Learner, and she learned a lot -- she has high Input. And she has participated in two research projects. So one, it's in 2013, it's "The Gen Y Leader: How to Lead Any Generation if You Are in Generation Y." And the second one was in 2009: "Emerging Leaders: The Transition From Technical Specialist to People Leaders." So we'll get a lot of insight to combine all of that. So Lynn, welcome to Called to Coach!

Lynn Garbers 3:03
Thank you, Bruno! It's great to be here with you.

Bruno Zadeh 3:06
Lynn, before to start on the topic emotional intelligence, I would like to know if you could share with us how you discovered CliftonStrengths and what brought you to the course originally? And I know there was a story around Jim and you as well during this course. So could you please share with us?

Lynn Garbers 3:24
Sure. I, I started my coaching practice in the early 2000s, when it was just getting some recognition as a profession. And I started out by, as part of my process, getting people to really understand what their strengths were. And I always found that they were reluctant to talk about them. And, and I, and although I wasn't able to do a strengths, Gallup strengths course, I was well aware of the certification. And I just, I just put it off until it was a time appropriate for me to do it. And so, because I was already aware of it, I saw the accelerated course being made available in 2014. And I decided I was just going to go ahead and do it. And one of the facilitators, I'm still friends with one of the facilitators from that, who used to work for Gallup. And so, yeah, so that's what led me to, to do the course and complete the course.

Lynn Garbers 4:25
And during that, they had a Called to Coach, which Jim was facilitating. And I had a chance to speak about Empathy, which happened to be in my Top 5, which I had really kind of buried -- I didn't necessarily want it to be well known, I guess. And because I was in the technology industry, you know, you had to be, you had to wear a kind of armor and all that. So anyway, it was a time when I said, "Right, I'm gonna just own this now." And I felt liberated. So, so that was my experience with Called to Coach and the certification and how I got involved with Gallup.

Bruno Zadeh 5:04
Lynn, you have run your own business since 15 years. So you have been through a crisis, try discovery, you know very well the workplace in Australia, what's going on. Can you please share with us, Who are your typical clients, what kind of practice you're doing what's your expertise? And a little bit what you have observed since COVID in the workplace?

Lynn Garbers 5:29
So my clients range from emerging leaders, sometimes leaders who are technology professionals who are first-time leaders, and they go through a transition. Sometimes they are people who are in career transition. But mostly they are in the corporate world, and they are senior or executive leaders who are in need of developing their connection, human connection skills. So I say that I helped leaders accelerate their leadership development growth by focusing on their human skills, which helps them grow in their confidence for leading themselves and others, which in turn creates high-impact teams.

COVID-19-Based Challenges for Leaders

Lynn Garbers 6:13
And what I've noticed in COVID is that there's a kind of a new skill that leaders need to lead and get collaboration and get engagement, while people are virtual. It is very difficult to build trust, I find, in, if you are solely virtual. If you meet a person face to face, you know, you've got all of the other dimensions in the human element and the human connection available to you that we don't even realize. And what fatigues us in the virtual world is that we have to now bring that awareness up to the surface, and we have to work at it more.

Lynn Garbers 6:54
So I'm noticing that people are really fatigued, and they're trying to do much more than they were trying to do before. And when they're leading their people, there's a bit of empathy and compassion that, that is needed even more than before, because again, you don't have the multidimensional interaction with people. So there, they need the development on digital body language. And I found that this is, there are some new skills that people need to learn. And there are some, some things that people need to bring to the surface that maybe they had taken for granted.

Bruno Zadeh 7:31
You have done some research across different generations, and I imagine you have observed and, I would say, come to a conclusion of the will of the generation. Did you observe some patterns between generations about what they want, etc.?

Lynn Garbers 7:49
Well, what I found is that each generation wants the same thing; they just go about getting it differently. So they want connection. They want to be led. They want recognition. And there was a, and I can't remember who did it, but there was another organization after I did my research that did some research with 86,000 participants, and they got the same exact results that I got. People want connection, they want feedback. And they want to be able to be led by someone who cares about them and wants to help develop them.

Bruno Zadeh 8:29
It's very interesting because Gallup has done some research on millennials, and we have published some research and collected a lot of data in this area. And on the wheel, what we realize, it's most of the millennials, what they want, they want, they don't want a boss; they want a coach. They want ongoing development. And they are big, big, they want a purpose. It's not about the job; it's really about the purpose -- about giving back, helping, contributing. And it's very aligned with what you explained. So also, in your private life, I know you play some instrument. You play some violin in some orchestra sometimes. And we had the conversation before, and I wanted to know how being a musician can help you as a coach, in terms of playing in a band or in orchestra. Do you believe that, as a coach in active listening, that helps you, that helps develop some capabilities there?

Lynn Garbers 9:26
Well, when, when you're a musician, and you play in an orchestra as part of a larger group, you have to be aware of your own music, your own, you know, your own pitch, making sure you're playing in tune. You have to also hear the second violins and the violas and the cellos and the brass and the winds, and you have to concentrate on resting -- if you're in resting, and the rest of the orchestra is playing, there's so many things you have to do at once. And so there's a lot of, there's a lot of self-awareness there. And there's a lot of awareness of others, as you can hear in, when we talk a little bit about the Genos, what a Genos emotional intelligence model is. There's a lot of self-awareness, but awareness of others, and you're constantly listening.

Lynn Garbers 10:18
I mean, one of the things that, that I do quite naturally as a transferable skill in my coaching is I'm listening. I'm listening between the lines. I'm listening for language. I'm listening for how people express their story. I'm listening for inflections in their voice in how they express the story. And, and when their pitch changes in their voice, then I'm hearing a bit more passion, then that's a little hint and maybe a little flashlight or light on something that I might investigate. So yes, it's, it's, it's the emotional intelligence of the awareness and self-awareness. But the, but, as you were talking about before, it's the listening, and listening for so much more than just what the person is saying. It's listening in a very strategic way, I guess you might say.

Defining Emotional Intelligence

Bruno Zadeh 11:12
As we are going in the topic of how to develop emotional intelligence using CliftonStrengths, what I would like to start with is to explain a little bit, what is emotional intelligence? And what it is so important to develop the emotional intelligence in the workplace? So we have both collected different definitions. What I will share with our coaching community today is the Oxford definition, and after, I would like you to share a little bit, the Genos perspective on emotional intelligence. For, so for the Oxford definition, it's the capacity to be aware of, control and express one's emotion and to handle interpersonal relationships judiciously and empathetically. Now, we, the reason I have approached you about emotion intelligence, it's you're certified in Genos, and you are, you are one of the rare coaches who use CliftonStrengths as part of your strategy to develop emotional intelligence. Could you please define a little bit, based on Genos, firstly, where it comes from, and secondly, why it's so compatible with CliftonStrengths?

Lynn Garbers 12:28
OK, all right. So I like that definition of the Oxford, it, because it's simple. It's simple and minimal. And it cuts, it cuts right to the chase of it. Genos is developed by Dr. Ben Palmer of Sydney and has grown out of his Ph.D. thesis from Swinburne University. And it is constantly, he's constantly growing and adding more things with a an emotional intelligence, an EI, foundation. So Genos defines emotional intelligence as a set of skills. And that's what I really like -- it's a set of skills. So it means that you can enhance, it means you can get better at these competencies that help us better perceive, understand and manage emotion in ourselves and others. And collectively, there are 6 of them. They help us make intelligent responses to and use of our emotions. These skills are as important as your intellect -- and I feel, in this, in this day and age, probably more important.

Lynn Garbers 13:37
I mean, I know, when I was hiring people, I would, you know, running as a leader myself, I would rather have somebody who, who was strong in emotional intelligence, and I called it, "a good attitude." And, because we can teach them the skills if they've got the basics of the skills. But you can't, it takes a long time to change people's behaviors and mindsets. And, and so these skills are important, because they help determine success in work and in life. And Genos has a workplace focus, which is the other thing that I really like about it. So everyone, no matter what job function, we all have interactions with other people. And so your capacity to understand your own emotions and be aware of them, and how they impact the way you interact with other people and the way you behave, will improve your people skills -- the soft skills, which I believe are much more important now in the virtual world than ever -- and help you ultimately be more satisfied and successful. That's how they define emotional intelligence.

Bruno Zadeh 14:43
Yeah, what I really like -- we talk about emotional intelligence a lot together. And it's very interesting the way our roads crossed is because I was on the way to develop myself on certification because I wanted to see how we can use CliftonStrengths. And I realized I was just finishing my certifications that you have done yours. And what I like here, it's really focused on the workplace and on performance. And CliftonStrengths, when you use in the workplace, it's a focus on performance as well. Because you reverse engineering; you start by what you want to achieve, and you use strengths to basically develop yourself to be able to achieve.

Why Start With CliftonStrengths?

Bruno Zadeh 15:26
So before to go into the 6 competencies, who are very specific, and some have already been discussed on Called to Coach, such as self-awareness and emotional awareness of others, I would like to understand a little bit about -- you explained that you always start, when you want to develop emotional intelligence, you start by CliftonStrengths instead of starting by Genos, which is an assessment on emotional intelligence. Can you explain why do you start by CliftonStrengths assessment to develop emotional intelligence?

Lynn Garbers 16:03
Yes, well, this is a really good question. You know, when we talk about what we do sometimes, as coaches and as consultants and entrepreneurs, when we run our own practice, is we, everybody likes to talk about all of the things that they do well and all of the success stories. And, and I have about 3 success stories I talk about. But I'm going to be honest here and talk about a big failure. Because I did not use and I was not certified as a Gallup Strengths Coach before I did this with one of my clients, a technology guy that I gave, ran his leadership 360. It was a complete failure. And what did I learn? Well, he was so, he was not ready for the feedback. He was not prepared. He, he was -- and I didn't read it right. So we had covered his strengths. But not, he didn't have the data. And if I had, if I had had the CliftonStrengths and done this, I would have known that he needed the data and he needed hardcore evidence in order to see things.

Lynn Garbers 17:08
So we didn't cover strengths enough, so that when he got his Genos results, he denied it all. He went and tried to defend everything and said that the, that the assessment was wrong; yet he was the one that filled it out. So it created a very disappointing situation for me, because he was threat -- in a state of threatened, he couldn't take in what we were doing. So I learned from that, and said, right, I start with strengths in everything I do. My practice, I start with everyone, whether it's a team or an individual, I start with strengths.

Lynn Garbers 17:43
And one of my successes is that starting with strengths is that the feedback from my client was that it gave him confidence to receive feedback for development. So because he was, he became very self-aware of the things he was already doing well, it gave him a sense of, "Oh, yeah, that's me. OK. Yep. Also, I can take this, and I can learn from it." And then I had him do an overlay of How was he going to get better at the thing that we had chosen in his Genos EI results, using his strengths? So there you go, there's a success story, and why I decide now to always start with strengths. And I don't want any of you to be in that position, to have that situation. So start with strengths!

Bruno Zadeh 18:01
To provide a little bit of context for our coaches here, basically, when you use Genos, you can use a 180 or 360. So it's very important to start with strengths, and it's, it's very interesting, because we have Marie-Lou Almeida, who talked about 360 months ago. And she was explaining the same, exactly the same scenario, where she starts with strengths to make sure the coachee takes ownership and understands, and you are, you have a better outcome when you start and say, "Yes, it's me." And after, you can have a better constructive conversation.

6 Core Emotional Intelligence Competencies

Bruno Zadeh 19:17
Now as we are going in emotional intelligence, we have identified 6 core emotional intelligence competencies in the workplace. And there is self-awareness, emotional awareness of others, authenticity, emotional reasoning, self-management and positive influence. So that's the Genos model, and it's very linked to the workplace as a leader. What I would like to start it here, Do you believe, Lynn, that you need to start like a pyramid of Maslow, some of them in a certain order, or can we work in disorder if, let's say, someone you want to develop emotional reasoning? To develop this capability, do you have to start by self-awareness first, emotional awareness, etc.? How does that work?

Lynn Garbers 20:09
Well, I, you know, we were talking about this, and I, and I like the idea of a pyramid, but more of a foundation. Self-awareness, no matter what model you follow -- whether it's, it's Goleman or, or Genos -- it always starts with self-awareness. Because if you don't know yourself, and you don't know how you behave, how you react, how you respond to situations, what triggers that you have, then you can't, there's nothing to build on. You can't understand another; you need to understand your, yourself first, and understand your relationship with yourself first, in order to understand the impact that you have on others. Many of my clients, you know, in the technology field, are, are very honest, black-and-white folks, and -- because they work with, with technology. And they, it's just the way they're made up and the way they think. And they sometimes lack the polish, if you will, of the soft skills.

Lynn Garbers 21:16
And they say they're being honest, but they hit you over the head with their honesty, instead of being aware of, How is this going to land with the other person? So the, the impact -- what are the impact of my words and how I'm saying it? How's it gonna land on the other person? So as you can see, self-awareness is first; then, awareness of others is next. And the, the authenticity that we're talking about, as I just said that they were saying, "Oh, yeah, but I'm authentic; I tell people exactly what I think." And I was like, Oh, OK, do you have a filter there? So awareness of others is that filter.

Bruno Zadeh 21:55
Do you have some examples to share about how you develop as a coach someone about self-awareness? What kind of exercise or model or what do you recommend? Do you pick the strengths of people and you say, OK, I, if you have Activator, you give some guidelines about how to self-regulate this Activator toward some kind of activity, etc.?

Lynn Garbers 22:24
Well, let me think. So I was just, what came to mind was a person I worked with who, who didn't realize that the way he looked and the -- some facial expressions that he had impacted, might impact others. And he was one of those that was saying, "Oh, I'm very, I'm just very, very honest." So, and he was highly Analytical. So it's like turning the Analytical on its side and saying, "OK, so why don't we do a little exercise using your Analytical. And I'm going to take a photo of your face, and you just start talking and talking -- like you're talking to one of your colleagues. And I'm going to take a photo of what you look like while you're talking to one of your colleagues. And then we're going to use your Analytical to look at this and figure out what might need to change? How might the other person be, be impacted by the way you look, for instance? So it's using your Analytical, but developing the awareness of others.


Bruno Zadeh 23:31
OK. And as we are going to next capability, it's authenticity. How do you develop automaticity with people? How do you make -- we always say, "It's not what you say; it's how you say, which is important"? Otherwise, you can literally give a message to someone and the person totally ignores the message, because you have delivered in a way that is not constructive. What's your recommendation to develop authenticity using CliftonStrengths? What -- can you share with us?

Lynn Garbers 24:06
Well, first let's, let's get, let's, let's back up for and, and get the definition of authenticity, according to Genos. And authenticity is defined as the, the skill is openly and effectively expressing oneself, honoring commitments, and encouraging this behavior in others. It involves honesty, expressing specific feelings at work, such as happiness and frustration, and providing feedback to colleagues about the way you feel and sharing emotions at the right time, to the right degree and to the right people. This is the key: People high in authenticity are often described as "genuine," whereas people low in this skill are often described as untrustworthy.

Lynn Garbers 24:49
And so the key here is that the, the example I used before about the guy who said, "But I'm just being honest!" He was being honest, but he didn't, he lacked the filter to say, "How is this going to impact someone else?" And then he, the way he, the way he spoke it, he needed to work on. And so yes, there were aspects of his authenticity that were, he was, he was exhibiting this. But he had to maybe rely on other, other strengths. Like, where would his -- and I can't remember exactly where it was, but -- where does his Responsibility lie, for instance? Or where, because I see sometimes the technical people, they have a lot of high Responsibility.

Lynn Garbers 25:43
So then it's like relying on that -- OK, so you take psychological ownership for, for what you're, you're doing here. How can you use that to soften the message? Or if they've got Communication in some of their supporting themes, how can you rely on that a little bit more than you would deliberately? So it's about being intention, intentional and deliberate. And that's where the self-awareness comes in. So self-awareness sits within authenticity, if that makes sense. So I know I keep going back to that, but the self-awareness and awareness of others kind of is embedded in authenticity, if that, if that makes sense.

Emotional Reasoning

Bruno Zadeh 26:27
Yes, that makes sense. Absolutely. So I can see how it's linked, and we talk about, about authentic leadership. And I mean, authentic leadership is not necessarily about delivering the message in a raw manner, but it's, as a leader, it's more about deliver a message, make sure its benefits will not come and benefit the person to help people to grow. And there's a way to do that. Now, about emotional reasoning, how do you, can you please explain a little bit how you will work if you want to develop emotional reasoning capability?

Lynn Garbers 27:01
Yeah, so that's around decision-making, isn't it?

Bruno Zadeh 27:04
Yes, absolutely.

Lynn Garbers 27:06
Yeah. So emotional reasoning, according to Gallup, is about using the information in your feelings from yourself and others when decision-making. And it involves considering your own and others' feelings when making decisions, combining these information, this information in feelings with facts, and technical information, and communicating it to others in the process. So feelings and emotions contain important information. One of the things I learned from my master's in org dynamics is that everything is data. Everything is data. And so if you have high Empathy like I do, and you wear your heart on your sleeve, like sometimes I do, you take things personally, people can tell me till I'm blue in the face to stop taking things personally. Well, you know, what I just, I can't help it! I take things personally. Can't help it; it's just the way, it's kind of the way it is. I try to turn the volume down on it sometimes and the intensity level, but it doesn't always work.

Lynn Garbers 28:03
But so where, where I was going with that is that my lecturer said to me, "Lynn, every bit of emotion is data. So whatever you're feeling, refer to it as data about the situation, about the system of which this person in the workplace may be operating." So all of us have our unique theme sequence, we have our unique strengths, and we operate in a wider organizational system. So it's, it's incorporating everything is data, and remembering that it's, that it's not personal. I don't know if I've answered your question there. But --

Bruno Zadeh 28:42
Yes, you, you have partly answered my question. Where I want to go here, it's, I relate to an example I have in my mind long time ago. So I'm very practical; I'm someone who's factual; I'm Discipline, Focus; it's very about facts. But one of my leaders, she's with a friend of hers, which is Claire DeCarteret, she's very high in Empathy. And we always have some very rich conversations about, for me, facts have to be the top. But for someone high in Empathy, you've got a different lens. Well, emotion is data. It's like a gut feeding; it's like a different filter. And it's interesting, sometimes it's very aligned, and sometimes it's not aligned at all. And I think in terms of lens perspective, it's where the complementary partnership comes from.


Bruno Zadeh 29:34
Because someone who got, I don't know, we are both Activator. We are fast-paced, etc.; it could be nice some time to partner with people who are Deliberative and Analytical, to slow down the pace and have a different emotional reasoning and be able to see different lens and perspective instead of jumping in. And sometime it works, and sometimes as an Activator, we jump quickly and realize, Oh, damn, I need to go back and do it again, because maybe I should have thought better before to act. Yes. So yes, absolutely, emotional reasoning, we could use this way. What about self-management? How do we develop self-management using CliftonStrengths?

Lynn Garbers 30:20
So, the way I think about it, so, so self-management is basically about managing your own mood and emotions, time and behavior, and continuously improving yourself. And how I think about this is that, once you're aware of what you're already doing well, you can start to take action and rely on what you're already doing well, and, and, and say, OK, so that you can, you can modulate the intensity of what you're already doing well. Because I think the real beauty of CliftonStrengths is the combination of the strengths. So it's, they don't stand alone, because they, they combine with each other.

Lynn Garbers 31:00
So you think about my, you think about people's strengths, and as I do my, these many debriefs I've been doing, I talk about the intensity level of, say, Responsibility along with Achiever. I see this a lot in executives -- Responsibility-Achiever quite high. And, and it's about the intensity level. So the self-management is about turning up the volume, like knowing the, so understand what's going on around you. So awareness of others; understand what's going on around you; and then saying, "OK, so what's appropriate for this moment? Do I turn up the volume on, on this particular strength and make it intense? Is, is this the right place?" Because the whole basis of emotional intelligence is the right emotion at the right time to the right degree.

Lynn Garbers 31:52
And I'm talking about the degree now, so that's the intensity level. Or do I turn the volume down on that -- the intensity level down on that, on that, because it's the combination, Responsibility and Achiever? Because, so what that looks like somebody who takes so much psychological ownership and has to achieve outcomes that they leave people behind. So if there's not a Relationship Building complementary, maybe another executive on the team can help them with that. But they've got to be self-aware enough to know how to modulate themselves. So that's the self-management piece.

Bruno Zadeh 32:29
So does that mean -- I also am thinking about the report, CliftonStrengths. If an organization, when you deliver a workshop or if you don't purchase yourself the report you want, what do you do if someone come with a Top 5? It's preventing you to half of the lens, because you have only 5 strengths in your report. And if you just self-manage yourself, you need to understand who you are and have a full vision of all the 34, I imagine. Did that make sense, what I explained?

Lynn Garbers 33:01
Can you just say it again? So that I can --

Bruno Zadeh 33:03
Yes, absolutely. So I mean, if you work with an organization who uses Top 5 on the --

Lynn Garbers 33:09
Who only use Top 5, yeah, I got it.

Bruno Zadeh 33:11
In terms of self-management. It reduces your capability to self-manage people, if they have -- imagine if in your Top 5, you have only Executing themes, but in your Top 10, you have four different domains? In terms of development of people, I think it's very important to use the full 34 report to have a lens. Did you know what I mean? Have you been challenged by that?

Lynn Garbers 33:36
No, because I only do the full 34. I did, for a while, a couple of projects ago, I did the Top 5. And I just found it more difficult; it, well, it didn't give me as much information and, and context -- not Context in the way we describe Context. But I mean, Gallup describes Context in the, in the themes -- but enough of an understanding of the whole picture, the whole system. And the full 34 gives me the whole system, and it's much more rich and gives me a whole lot more depth to work with that will speed up. And I think that's the thing that I really like about this combination of emotional intelligence and using strengths to start with to help build this emotional intelligence is that it is efficient. And today, people want efficiency, they want to go fast, and they want to get stuff done yesterday.

Lynn Garbers 34:28
But this does really, this is really an efficient way of creating an organization -- say you're, you have a mandate to, as a CEO, to change the culture. So I have one of my clients has partially, he's got to do that. And we've started with strengths. And it's, it's been so well-received that the executive level want to go the next level down and the next level down. So they want to know the full 34 of their team so that they can help them work in a complementary way. So they're, they're getting the, the efficiency as well and also developing an awareness of how important it is to know what people's strengths are so that you can maximize them.

Positive Influence

Bruno Zadeh 35:17
That makes sense. So that's competency I would like to talk about -- its positive influence before jumping after on Strengths-Based Leadership. But can you define a bit of positive influence? And then after, we talk about your practice, because you're one of the unique people I know in Australia, who use so many times the Strengths-Based Leadership Report, yes, let's define fierce boosting, for instance.

Lynn Garbers 35:39
So positive influence is, as it says, positively influencing the way others feel through problem-solving, feedback, recognizing and supporting others -- supporting others' work. It involves creating a positive working environment -- so that's the culture, that organizational system -- helping others find effective ways of responding to upsetting events, and effectively helping people resolve issues that are effectively -- that are affecting their performance. It helps people create a productive environment for others. And that is the key. And it's people who can positively influence others' moods, feelings and emotions are empowering to work with, and easily motivate those around them. And of course, with that motivation, engagement follows. So --

Bruno Zadeh 36:28
Yeah, go ahead.

Lynn Garbers 36:30
I was gonna say, so, and so the second part of the question is, How do you use emotional -- CliftonStrengths to develop positive influence? Right? I think once you underst -- so people, like this organization I'm working with, once that executive level does their strengths, the next level does, already just by implementing it, it creates, it starts to create a positive influence, because it's a positive lens on what people are already doing well and, and maximizing that. Not saying there's no weaknesses -- I always say to everybody, "I'm not saying we don't have weaknesses; we all do." But Drucker said, you know, the role of a leader is to maximize the strengths to make the weaknesses irrelevant. And so, you know, that, it's the way you organize, the way you understand "complementary," -- we were talking about that; complementary strengths, making sure that people can work together.

Lynn Garbers 37:30
I think when a project team first starts up in the project-initiation phase, it's the No. 1 thing you should do immediately is just get everybody doing their strengths. It'll, it'll be, feel slow at start. But it speeds things up enormously. So I don't know whether you know this or not, but it's just a little tidbit of information: We can tell, within 10 feet and .07 seconds, whether someone likes us or not; whether they're judging us; and what they think about us. So just think about that for a minute -- within 10 feet. So you get within 10 feet of someone, and if they look at you funny, and you can tell that it's just such an unconscious thing, whether it's a friend or, or a foe. So, so that says that, in terms of positive influence, your, your emotional state is infectious. And so if it's, it can be infectious negative. I know I want mine to be infectious positive. So, and CliftonStrengths helps, as I was saying before, create that positive, that positivity.

Strengths-Based Leadership, the 4 Needs of Followers

Bruno Zadeh 38:35
You are using a lot also the Strengths-Based Leadership. So just to explain a little bit, the Strengths-Based Leadership, it's about the needs of the follower. And it includes 4 capabilities: stability, trust, hope and compassion. OK, that's in a book. But --

Lynn Garbers 38:54
And stability.

Bruno Zadeh 38:55
Yes. Yes, stability, trust, hope and compassion. Absolutely. And can you explain why are you using this report -- Strengths-Based Leadership -- all the time with your client?

Lynn Garbers 39:09
Yes. I used to be on the old Gallup online platform. And that was available for producing the reports there. And then I moved over to Access, and they didn't move that one over. So I, I still love that report and rely on it. So why do I use it? Because the Managers Report is fantastic. And the new Managers Report is fantastic in conjunction with the full 34. And I see little bits of the SBL embedded in some of the comments and actions in the Managers Report. So well-done there. I'm really happy that you've done that. I feel that the Managers Report is the strengths from a manager perspective -- from the role of manager.

Lynn Garbers 39:58
In terms of the Strengths-Based Leadership Report, what it does is it gives this leader an understanding of what the leaders -- I mean, sorry, what the followers need. So it comes from a different angle. So top down and then bottom up. And I feel that those two together give a complete picture for a leader or manager. And that's why I use the Strengths-Based Leadership Report, because it shows how each strength builds trust, hope, compassion and stability, using your strengths, and also shows you what it sounds like and gives you action items and goes really much more in depth about how to use each one of those strengths of the Top 5.

CliftonStrengths, Authenticity and Building Trust With Others

Bruno Zadeh 40:44
How can you use CliftonStrengths to be authentic and connect with others and build trust?

Lynn Garbers 40:52
OK, how can we use -- sorry, can you just say that again?

Bruno Zadeh 40:55
Yes. How can we use our CliftonStrengths to be authentic and connect with others and build trust? Trying to establish a link between authenticity and trust and how to develop that, basically, if you see some correlation, and if you see some, if you have some idea how to develop. Yeah.

Lynn Garbers 41:16
Well, yeah, absolutely. Because, as I read before, the authenticity, people who are high in authenticity are described as genuine, and therefore trustworthy. Whereas people who are low in the skill are often described as untrustworthy. So people who say, "All right, I'm going to go to bat for you," and they go to bat for them. If you're in sales, they say, they make a commitment and -- to a client, and they deliver on that commitment. This is, this is authenticity. Authenticity is also being able to express how you're feeling, to the right degree, to the right person and with the, the right emotion behind it. And I don't know if he could see this, but the self-awareness and the awareness of others is so intricately embedded, if you will, in authenticity, that if you, if you have developed your self-awareness, then you know how you're speaking; you can hear what you're saying; you know how it's landing with others.

Lynn Garbers 42:21
Then you're able to say, "OK, my people aren't able to hear this right now. So I'm not going to say it now. Or I'm going to say it in a different way." And it doesn't mean you have to tell everybody about the, you know, the worst thing that's happened to you in your day or, you know, the horrible things that have happened. I don't, it's not about that; it's about appropriately, and, and with understanding of how you're feeling, making sure your self-management that you are in a place where this is going, you are aware of how it's going to land with the other person. And you're able to use, say, your Empathy in this way to create trust. And you're also creating compassion; you're also giving compassion and hope. And this creates stability also for people, when you're authentic and you do what you say you're going to do, and trustworthy. I think the key word is "trustworthy" here for authenticity.

Lynn Garbers 43:20
And so high Responsibility, it will come more naturally. Maybe if you don't have high Responsibility, there are other strengths that will help you get there, through the combination of strengths. But I think just even being aware of your Top 10 is going to help enormously -- and your Bottom 5. So knowing that it's going to take more energy. So you say, oh, say Communication's at the, you know, in my Bottom 5? Well, that's OK. I have that available to me. What else can I use, in conjunction with Communication, to, to help people and to be trustworthy myself? So I don't know -- there's a lot of thinking going on, and that's my Connectedness, too, that's making all these links.

Self-Awareness and Leveraging Your CliftonStrengths

Bruno Zadeh 44:03
Yes, and your Futuristic and Intellection -- I can see all your strengths playing action here. A lot of, a lot of Strategic Thinking on your 6 to 10. Now, I would like to talk about something. A lot of people we heard a lot on different reviews that it's important as a leader to have Empathy. But people are also very confused between Empathy and compassion, which is different. Do you believe that if you develop your self-awareness, and awareness, awareness of, awareness of others, you can be compassionate and care about people and still have, have my Empathy is 33. It's on the bottom. But I'm still very compassionate, and I care about people. So what's your view on that? If you have a low Empathy as a leader, you need to be compassionate. What would be your strategy? What would be your recommendation?

Lynn Garbers 45:02
Well, that's, that has happened. And, and I've had the leaders say, "Oh, really sorry. I can't believe Empathy's so low, because I'm such a compassionate person. I really care about people." I said, "It's OK. Let me explain what Empathy means in this context." And then we go through and we say, I say, "This is what it actually means: It's that you tune into and you feel what other people are feeling." I said, "In your role, with your, with all of your other strengths, that will derail you. So that's why that is sitting down here. And it's appropriate that it's sitting down here. But let's look at your Responsibility. Let's look at your other strengths, that -- maybe the Individualization; maybe the Arranger -- that come together to consider the best for other people." And, and that's how I work with them to understand that. But they need to have a basis of self-awareness and awareness of others, in terms of -- I keep going back to emotional intelligence -- in order to have that conversation.

Lynn Garbers 46:07
So I usually, you know, most people's, it's funny, most people's self-awareness -- I don't know if the other coaches feel this, have seen this too -- but most people self-awareness increase as your, if you get a chance to do the debriefs with them, increase as a result of going through what their strengths are. Their self-awareness is increased automatically, it seems. And they become aware, "Oh, well, I used to do that that way. But now I see; now I understand." And so as they think about themselves, as they think about their combination of strengths and what they're doing, it really helps lift their self-awareness. And so with the Empathy, I just look for other ways for them to help them see that they can be compassionate, understanding, caring, but they get there in a different way.

Lynn Garbers 46:59
I mean, just because you don't have Competition on your Top 5 as a salesperson, doesn't mean you're not a competitive salesperson. You know what I'm saying? Because I've, you know, experienced that myself. I don't have Competition high. But I, but my Competition, as, when I was selling in technology, my Competition would just, all of a sudden, you know, come racing up when I was competing for a deal. So then I'd enhance my Relationship Building skills. I would go in and say, "OK, you know, what, are we gonna do?" I enhanced the Relationship Building. So you get there in a different way.

Bruno Zadeh 47:36
Yeah, it's a different lens, based on the combination. And sometimes it could be perceived as Competition, but it's not necessarily Competition. It could be a mix of Achiever-Significance or whatever you want. Yes, absolutely, I agree. The combination are very important. Now, can you outline the program you're working on to develop leaders on emotional intelligence? Do you have a specific program? Do you have some examples to share?

Lynn Garbers 48:05
On, on, on -- sorry, can you --

Bruno Zadeh 48:07
Yeah, if you want to develop some capability on emotional intelligence, do you work on specific programs to, to help leader?

Lynn Garbers 48:16
Well, there's, Genos has a variety of emotional intelligence programs. And the, the I'm, I am not working specifically because I integrate. That's, I integrate things into my practice. So I will integrate aspects of emotional intelligence, say, into a Communicating Effectively program that I might run. Or I'm, I'm integrating aspects of neuroscience, for instance, when I'm, when I'm running a program. And I find that if I have, Genos' program, the most recent one, is their, their Leader as, as Coach program, where I would still start with strengths at the beginning of that program, and it's 4 modules long, and, and help people become better coaching leaders. So I don't have an emotional intelligence program I'm running right now, but I am integrating aspects of, of Genos EI into every program that I am running. So does that answer your question?

A Management Consulting Approach Tailored to Client Needs

Bruno Zadeh 49:26
Yes, that answers my question. Absolutely. Now, what, when you meet a client, and you have a 15, 15 years' experience as a management consulting firm, how do you decide what you integrate, what you don't? What's your reasoning behind? Because you cross probably the same challenge in many, many clients, which is working remotely, creating trust, engaging team and all of that. What will make your decision to use more CliftonStrengths or another assessment or combine many of them? And we talked about yesterday a little bit together that you were using sometimes old, old framework or assessments, because sometime you don't have enough length, and you need to add more. Can you please share a bit? Because I found that very interesting the way you operate. You, you have a really, really open mind and very generous in your learning.

Lynn Garbers 50:26
Yeah, so I first look at what is the business outcome that they're looking for? What is the business issue that they may be dealing with? And so I'm always focused on the business. So how is this going to help the business? So a first conversation I have is, you know, Where, where are you headed? And if I run a, if I've run a strengths program with them, which includes a debriefs of the executives and then a workshop, I want to know where the organization's going. So that'd be my Futuristic and some of the Strategic -- I want to know the big picture of where they're headed, so that I can blend and customize accordingly.

Lynn Garbers 51:05
So I don't, I don't have a process that I just slap on everybody, regardless of what it is that they're trying to achieve. I go to, What is it that they want? What is it that they need? What is most appropriate for them? What will help them efficiently get to their goals? And what in my toolkit or my background and certifications do I have that is going to help them? And I always start with strengths. I know it's a big message; I keep saying that. But I always start with strengths, because I believe it and, and EI are the foundation to efficiently getting to business goals.

A CliftonStrengths-Based Approach to Teams, Individuals

Bruno Zadeh 51:45
That's brilliant, brilliant sharing. Yes. I'm thinking the same time, because you give me a lot of new ideas. And OK, so you always start with strengths. What about teams? Do you work with teams as well? I mean, if you want to achieve a goal and with a team, do you start with strengths and you start with your team grid, or do you start individual?

Lynn Garbers 52:09
I start with the individual, do the debriefs, then I do the team grids. And I do the team grids, depending on how high the Analytical is, I just adjust my approach, depending on what the group looks like together, what the individuals look like. And I've learned from experience that you need to keep people engaged and active and, and practical. You're practical, Bruno; so am I. And unless something is going to help people learn here and now and, and help them, help it stick, I'm really not interested in doing any just for, you know, theoretical exercise. It's got to actually have some outcome that's going to be meaningful to them.

Lynn Garbers 52:50
And so yes, when I work with teams, I do the debrief, I do a lot of team grids. And then in the workshop, depending on what their focus is, we, we usually have an activity that is a business base with a, with a business case that people get to work on to leverage their strengths.

Bruno Zadeh 53:07
It looks like it's your Achiever kicking, but I know you don't have Achiever; it's your Responsibility mixed with your Futuristic. And that's a perfect example of when we don't have a strength and we tap in another strength to achieve something. I really love what you, what you explained. Yes. Jim, do you have some question to add?

Opportunities to Improve Self-Awareness

Jim Collison 53:25
Well, we're getting close to the end, which goes very, very fast. Been very, Lynn, been very fascinated to listen to this. One of the, well, let me bring in a comment. Catherine in the chat room says she's been doing 90-minute debriefs, where she includes the blind spots and helping expressions, right. This is where we talk about self-awareness in this system, and it's been identified as the favorite, favorite section. Well, and I think it gives people an opportunity. I mean, I think we all know we emotionally struggle, especially in these areas of the decision-making process, right. We, we get very instinctual on them. We kind of go to the very, especially when we're under stress, right, then those begin to get very automatic for us.

Jim Collison 54:08
A couple years ago, I am, I'm still kind of new to figuring, you know, I'm 53, and I'm still kind of figuring some of this stuff out. But I began to realize, and I started watching for these emotional triggers, right, these moments when I could feel things beginning to happen and then the automatic beginning to kick in. And that, kind of, I am still working on that, where I kind of recognize those moments. You know, there's still moments I go through and I'm like, "Aw, I wish I would have caught myself in the middle of that one." Sometimes I'm catching more; sometimes I'm catching less. As we think about that idea, that self-awareness, any, any tips to help people catch themselves in those moments or begin to figure out, OK, when I have this, these overwhelming feelings, how do I stop for a second and, and call it for what it is, to recognize it, to do something different? Any, any thoughts on that?

Lynn Garbers 55:05
Well, first of all, your self-awareness has really kicked in there, OK? So when you deliberately focus then on a thought, because every thought has an emotion attached to it. So if you go back and you say, "Well, what was I thinking in the last 10 seconds or the last 15 seconds or the last 20 seconds?" You're going to get some insight into the emotion attached to that. And then right there, you've got your pause. So it's a deliberate thinking first, remembering that every thought has an emotion attached to it, and then saying, "Huh. Hmm. What was I just thinking?" And I've done this a lot. So I was just thinking, "Oh, I was actually thinking of a sad thing. Oh, that explains why I just got grumpy with my husband." Because I'm, I'm like, I'm reacting, and it's like, "Oh, darn, I wish I hadn't done that." But then, you know, you catch yourself. And we're always, all of us are always learning all the time. And we've got billions of thoughts going on all the time, with just heaps of emotions.

Lynn Garbers 56:08
And one of the other things is to just name it, right? Say what emotion it is. Because our emotional vocabulary is very limited. You know, happy, sad, frustrated, angry. So that's about like, 4. I've got, there's an activity I do that says, What were -- in the last 24 hours, how many did you feel, emotions did you feel? People have come up with 5, 6, right? Then I say, "OK, go to this table back here" -- when I did it in person -- "I've got 150 emotions cards laid out. Pick up some other ones that you felt," right. So then they come back, and there's like 11, 12, 13 or more, because they've had a chance to think about it. So, so I think being deliberate -- thinking, "What was I just thinking the last 10 seconds, 30, minute, whatever?" -- and then naming the emotion. And then you're on your way, because you've created that little, that little pause, if you will.

Jim Collison 57:01
Yeah, I think each time, it gets a little bit easier. And it never gets totally easy. I mean, there's still sometimes we slip and go back. I had a friend who I knew, I've known for the last 20 years. I hadn't seen him in the last 3, and I had lunch with him the other day. And he said to me, "You know, you used to get kind of, you know, anxious and depressed during the holidays. How's this holiday going?" And I thought, "You know, I haven't had that thought in a while. But now that you said it, I'm going to think about that -- like --

Lynn Garbers 57:29
Thanks a lot!

Jim Collison 57:29
Well, it was one of those moments. I was like, "Oh, yeah, I guess I did." And then, but it caused me to work through, like, what's changed since then? What am I doing different now? What, what existed then that doesn't exist now? To your point, you get these data points. I think that's kind of even what you said in the very beginning, right? You get these data points that you can start kind of, "Oh, OK, wait a minute. That was this. And this was then, and these kinds of things were happening. And this was the background. And this is how I was responding to it. And this is why I was responding to it." And it gives us that chance to kind of put the, start putting those, those pieces together. Catherine also wants to get an official hashtag going -- #startwithstrengths.

Lynn Garbers 58:09
Go for it; love it.

Jim Collison 58:11
So great. And then she also mentions, It's very interesting that you're talking about EI tonight because I'm going to take an EI certification next month, the EQ-i 2.0. Will also explore -- is it -- How do you pronounce that, JEN-OS?

Lynn Garbers 58:23
JEN-AUS. Genos International.

Jim Collison 58:26
And I did put that, the link to their website in chat. So anybody, anybody listening to that. Bruno, we're right at time. Anything else before we wrap this?

Bruno Zadeh 58:36
No, I think we have covered most of, well, it was just an introduction.

Jim Collison 58:43
A good introduction!

Bruno Zadeh 58:44
But I wanted to cover this topic. And I would say to Catherine, If you want to interact and talk to Lynn, talk, because I had the same challenge when I select emotional intelligence. I was looking for many different certifications and to try to get the most of my learning. And there are so many who are good. So if you want to interact with Lynn, please don't hesitate; we can give you the contact details.

Lynn Garbers 59:10
I'll just say one last thing, Jim. I know we're at time. But the difference with Genos for any of the other ones I've seen is that they measure the importance of that particular emotional intelligence skill to the organization. So the importance is the systemic cultural aspect of it. No one else does that. And you can't operate in a vacuum, because you work in, in the workplace. And so that's the differentiate, key differentiator, which I think is really critical.

Jim Collison 59:38
I think that's a good last word. Bruno, let's thank Lynn for coming today. Would you do that for me?

Bruno Zadeh 59:44
Absolutely. So thanks, Lynn, a lot for coming today. And thanks a lot for all this time of preparation. I know it was the end of the year, and it was really fast-paced for everyone, and I really appreciate that you were available to do that. And I will finish by, Thank you, Lynn, and #startwithstrengths.

Lynn Garbers 1:00:03
Yeah. Thank you so much. It's been an absolute delight working with you guys. And I hope everyone has gotten some really good tips and can take this out and make it, make it work for them.

Jim Collison 1:00:13
Yeah, I think it's a great way to end the year. You know, I just, this is, this is our last webcast for 2021. A lot of folks listening to this on the podcast version will be catching it the very first of the year for 2022. So maybe it's a great way to start the year as well, kind of be thinking about that. It's been a journey for me. While I haven't done any certifications, and I haven't been through it, I, the highlight or the bringing emotional intelligence to the forefront of our thinking has been really, really helpful to me. And I run, I run in a way that it's just been very, very beneficial to do it. So Lynn, thank you for me too. You guys hang tight for me one second. With that, I'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we have available now in Gallup Access. Lynn mentioned that a little bit earlier. Been a while since I heard someone say "Gallup Online." So, not that it was bad; it was an OK platform. You can head out to For coaching, master coaching or to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach -- we mentioned that a couple times -- you can send us an email: We'll get that to the right person to help you out with that. You can join us on any social platform just by searching "CliftonStrengths." And that, we'll thank you for joining us and for closing out the year, if you're listening live. For those of you in the chat room, thank you. Catherine says, "Thanks so much for a great session." For those listening live, thank you for coming out and closing out 2021 with us. We're very excited -- Bruno, just a couple days ago. I didn't have anything scheduled for January, and I already have like seven things now scheduled for the community for January. So excited to what we'll bring for you in 2022. Thanks for coming out tonight. If you found this helpful, we'd ask that you'd share it. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Lynn Garbers' Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Connectedness, Relator, Empathy, Individualization and Activator.

Learn more about using CliftonStrengths to help yourself and others succeed:

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