Doing Less Better: How Your Top 5 Inform Your Coaching, Your Life

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 10, Episode 44.

Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.

Your Top 5 CliftonStrengths talent themes hold the keys to help you address many of the challenges you face in work and in life. And tapping into the Top 5 of coworkers, friends and family members can bring you even greater success. Change and Impact Consultant Craig Parkinson has witnessed the transforming power of strengths in his coaching work with students, educators and schools in the U.K. and internationally. He shares how you can build a lasting strengths "fire" in organizations and how you can measure -- and simplify -- your path to impact and success. Join us and bring Craig's insights to your coaching and your life.

I think a lot of us spend a lot of time trying to be everything to everybody. And you end up being very little to almost everybody.

Craig Parkinson, 6:02

It's really important to be coachable yourself. I think great coaches have to have coaches who they turn to. ... If we miss that side of it, we might not become the best coach that we can be.

Craig Parkinson, 9:56

If we spent enough time reflecting on how we're successful, we could then be intentionally excellent more often.

Craig Parkinson, 30:40

Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on October 27, 2022.

Jim Collison 0:18
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live and you don't see the chat room, there's a link right above us up there to that. It'll take you over to the chat. We'd love to have you sign in and ask your questions live during the program. If you're listening after the fact, and you have questions, you can still send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app to Called to Coach or right over there on YouTube, so you never miss an episode. Hannah Lomax is our host today. Hannah is a Senior Business Solutions Consultant here at Gallup. And, Hannah, it's always great to have you on Called to Coach, and I think I can say, Welcome back!

Hannah Lomax 1:01
Awesome. Thank you, Jim, for having me today. Great to be here.

Meet Our Guest on This Episode

Jim Collison 1:05
We've got a fabulous guest today. And we've enjoyed some time in the preshow. Why don't you take a second and introduce who we have today?

Hannah Lomax 1:11
Yeah, awesome. Welcome, everyone! From, I can see people joining from, from everywhere. So great to have you here. We've got Craig Parkinson with us today. And Craig is a Change and Impact Consultant who has been freelance for about 11 years now of doing coaching. Craig became certified in 2021, and he stays true to the mantra of "Do Less Better." Hi, Craig, welcome! Tell us a bit about yourself.

Craig Parkinson 1:35
Hi, Hannah. Hi, Jim. Thanks for inviting me on to the show. It's great to be here. So as Hannah says, I've been a freelance consultant for about 11 years, working predominantly in the education industry. Just to go through my Top 5, and just to be a little bit different, I'm going to do them in countdown order. So at No. 5, I've got Connectedness, which is a really powerful theme for me. I've got Input at 4. At 3, there's Intellection. Two is Strategic, and 1 I have is Learner. And working in education, that comes as quite a relief to me. Within those 11 years, I've spent a bit of time working with schools around the United Kingdom and some schools internationally as well. So some of my work is spent working in the math zone, where I'm helping schools to develop world-class maths learners. And some of it's spent working with leaders of education, to look at how to use what the research tells us makes the biggest difference in education, so that the pupils get the best possible chance to be the most complete learners that they can be.

Craig Parkinson 2:41
Prior to that, I've been a maths teacher and a physics teacher. And if you want to go even further back, I've spent time working in business finance management. I've also been involved in sports as well. So that idea of people will have about 10 or 11 jobs, you know, in their lifetime -- I think I'm just about there now.

Hannah Lomax 3:01
Awesome. So great to have you here. And I think as well, I'm excited for our conversation today. Because you've coached so many different types of people, it's going to be really good to hear from you a little bit more about how you've kind of flourished in your own coaching skills and really applied them in different ways with, with different audiences. So I'd love to just start off with my favorite question: What actually inspired you to make that leap and become an official coach?

Craig Parkinson 3:28
What I realize now is that I've always been a coach. It's just I've never really sort of leaned into it in a particularly formal way. So when I was a lot younger, and I used to play squash at a national level, I was coached by the world's best squash coaches. And I played alongside great players like Pete Marshall and David Campion. And those squash coaches helped me see how important coaches were in people's lives. Had I gone down a different path, I'd be talking to somebody on the podcast about how my squash career got to where it got to. But what I'm actually thrilled about is being able to talk about how those early experiences of coaching led me into working in teaching. And then I realized that the most effective teacher that I could be was one who coached children, rather than just told them what to do.

Craig Parkinson 4:19
So I think that it all came together during the pandemic, and many people faced a cross, a crossroads in the pandemic. And for me, I was at a place where my diary had emptied because my freelance work obviously took a back seat. And my Learner just said, What can I do? What is there to do? And a good friend called Sean Harris just happened to send me a tweet, and he just mentioned something about CliftonStrengths coaching, and it's been nonstop since then.

Hannah Lomax 4:48
I love that. And I think, you know, we find lots of people who are in our coaching community who share similar experiences, where people kind of say, you're actually doing a lot of coaching already. And they kind of noticed that talent in you. So, amazing that you've kind of started that journey and been so successful too. And I love the analogy that you make around sort of the impact that sports can demonstrate on what the power of a great coach can do. I think that's something that we often talk about here at Gallup anyway. But I guess my question to you is, At what point did you really start to kind of discover and lean into your own unique strengths and not try and kind of copy anybody else or follow a particular transcript of any type?

Craig Parkinson 5:28
The minute I knew how I was talented, and how I was uniquely talented. I couldn't do it before. There's a model that people hear me talk about, called the Triple A model, which is Articulation, Awareness and Action. And the more language you have, the more you can be aware of yourself. And once I got my Top 5 in front of me, I suddenly became aware of who I was as a person. And it gave me permission to be that person all the more, and never to apologize for being that person. And it also allowed me to say, And I'm not this other person. Because I think a lot of us spend a lot of time trying to be everything to everybody. And you end up being very little to almost everybody. And I've found that knowing my strengths allowed me to step forward to move into coaching in a way that I couldn't do before.

Craig Parkinson 6:19
I'd been doing informal coaching before CliftonStrengths. And I've got quite a an extensive network of people I've worked with over the last 11 years. And the, the real direction of CliftonStrengths is like nothing I've ever, ever been aware of before. And I didn't just sort of climb into CliftonStrengths because it was, you know, the first thing that I Googled; I spent a lot of time researching over the pandemic, the different coaching programs available. The, the work I do with schools is called Visible Learning. And that looks at, over the last 40 or 50 years, what's been shown to make the biggest difference. There's parallels there with CliftonStrengths where it's, decades of research has gone into it. So for me, it looks similar to what I knew already had impact. So I could go to the CliftonStrengths model and confidently start coaching from within it.

Hannah Lomax 7:10
Yeah, brilliant. I think something that you've just made me think of there is one of the phrases that we often say here is, "You can't be any anything you want. But you can be a lot more of who you already are." I think we've kind of talked about that a little bit before. But just even in what you were sharing there, like I can hear the Learner saying, you know, I looked at all the different options and things like that. So I think it can be quite daunting sometimes to take that sort of step into being more of who you are, and feeling like, you know, maybe you're leaving behind some of the parts of you that you thought you were supposed to be. And you'd mentioned that you're trying to be everything. And it's like that analogy of the stars with the sharp points. You don't need to be rounded in all of the different areas. So you mentioned that obviously strengths was integral in kind of helping you figure that piece out. But were there any moments that you had, where you just thought, Actually I'm OK with, this is how I am, and there are things that I don't love to do? What kind of led to that moment for you?

Craig Parkinson 8:04
Again, I think a lot of the sort of starting point was knowing what my strengths were. So once I -- nobody's ever described me as being a highly Strategic person. But when I looked back at my life through the lens of strengths, I realized that when I was being coached in squash, for example, I used to ask my coach, When's the right time to play this? What about this shot? Could I play to that point? What if? You know, all the "What if?" scenarios are there. So I have always been Strategic, but nobody actually ever said, "Craig, you're an incredibly Strategic guy." And now that allows me to say to people, not that I'm lazy -- yes, yeah, I am. But it's just that the real me is not going to get out of this chair and just start doing things until I've had ample processing time to know what it is that I'm trying to do.

Craig Parkinson 8:54
I never want to just sort of like, rush off and hope that where I get to is important. My Connectedness means that if I do start going somewhere, I've got real faith that where I end up is gonna be the best place for me. But to actually get moving forward, I make no apologies. If you want it done, you probably don't need to ask me; I'm not gonna be the person to do it. I'll hand the baton to somebody else. I'm really happy to do that. But I will make sure that the plan that you have is the best that's possible.

What Makes a Good Coach?

Hannah Lomax 9:23
Yeah. It's those powerful partnerships, right. So leading into the things that you're really good at and then finding others around you that can just step in and, and do the Executing or, you know, kind of do the Influencing in all of those different areas as well. In your own words, Craig, what do you think makes a really good coach?

Craig Parkinson 9:41
I think my answer has changed since I first thought about this, when I first became a coach. So originally it was going to be somebody who can listen; somebody who is nonjudgmental; somebody who can cheerlead for somebody else. But I think it's really important to be coachable yourself. I think great coaches have to have coaches who, who they turn to. So I've got a coach called Katie, who became accredited at the same time as me. And Katie coaches me. And I think if we miss that side of it, we might not become the best coach that we can be.

Craig Parkinson 10:18
But the, the ability to, to draw out of somebody else what's inside them, I think's, for me, the epitome of a great coach. And it's that Latin-rooted word of "educate" is "educare," which means to draw out of somebody, not to fill in. And that's how I know that as a teacher, I was always coaching people, because I was trying to work out what it was that they were thinking, rather than saying, "You must think this and regurgitate this when you need to." And that's what a great coach also is aware of. You don't want to tell somebody what they're meant to do; you want them to have that, those questions and even think about things that they wouldn't think about themselves. But also somebody who has optimism for the person that they're coaching.

Hannah Lomax 11:01
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. We all know the importance of Hope, right? It's one of the 4 Needs of Followers, which we've talked about before. But I love that piece around kind of being coachable yourself. I think something that we've been able to see as such a powerful tool in the coaching community is that opportunity to connect with others and have that kind of partnership, that friendship, that mentor, who can help you think about maybe some of the things that you're struggling with yourself, give you that feedback, almost in that coaching developmental journey, that, that we all go on ourselves. It's always taking the time to pause and invest in us and think, OK, what are my blind spots, maybe what's getting in the way of my own coaching? And I think having other people that can kind of pull that out of you, like you said, is, is really, really important. So Craig, you're coaching lots of people. You're, you're a busy guy, which is good to hear. Who do you love to coach at the moment? I know you've got kind of a wide portfolio, but who are you coaching the most at the moment that you love?

Craig Parkinson 11:56
I think coaching those people who feel as though they've plateaued, but they know that there's, the curve's going to inflect upwards. So it's those people who know that there's something that can happen, but they, they just want that breakthrough. And it's not finding the low-hanging fruit that allows them to stay where they are. I like having, I really love coaching people who have got huge, huge horizons to aim towards. Because when, again, CliftonStrengths helps you see yourself in a way that, that sometimes is different from how you thought you were. So I used to think I was Maximizer -- you know, that Steve Jobs idea of make a dent in the universe, I used to think that was me. But that was how I articulated things. But my action never sort of aligned with that. So now I realize that for me, if I'm, if I'm coaching somebody who's Maximizer, they bring out more in me than I thought possible. So, and I think when, when you're in a coaching conversation with somebody, at least one person should be nourished as a consequence of it. So I like coaching people who can help nourish me, whilst I'm also helping them to achieve the things that they're after.

Making a Coaching Impact in the Education World

Hannah Lomax 13:08
Super interesting. It's almost like, you know, people who are high in Influencing themes can also be influenced themselves. So it's kind of flipping it on its head a little bit. But I think, yeah, like you said, there's so much value from the coach side as well of those conversations. OK, as you think about kind of the work that you've done in education, I know that that's a big, big sector for this market, anyway. How have you managed to kind of crack into education? And what do you think has worked really well as you've been able to lead such impactful work there?

Craig Parkinson 13:39
Well, I think the, the timing is always important, which again, is where Connectedness, I couldn't have strategically planned to be at this point, because there are too many moving parts within it. But the educational world, certainly in the United Kingdom, is going through a crisis of recruitment and retention. And it's a perennial issue; it's just been exacerbated by, by the pandemic. So the, the sort of, the way that schools are inviting me to work with them now is on a wellbeing platform. And it's how we can make sure that we, we, again, do three things: We, we retain the talent that we have within our schools, because they can go elsewhere. None of us are trees, you know, we can move. So how you will retain the talent.

Craig Parkinson 14:24
How you recruit talent, you know, because you, you want quality to attract quality. One of the world-class coaches for squash called Malcolm Willstrop, I remember asking him probably 20 years ago, "What makes people come to you?" And he said, "Quality attracts quality." And at the time, I thought he was saying that he was the world's best coach. But he was saying that people come to him because they know what they're going to get. And they know that they're going to be surrounded by high quality as well. So it's easy to recruit quality when you have high quality there. So you want to retain that, that talent. You want to be able to recruit it.

Craig Parkinson 15:02
But you also want to grow the talent that you have. So schools, I think, they're at a stage now where they realize that they're going to have to do more with less. And -- well, it does, it, it leans towards that. Mine is through choice; theirs is through sort of finance, you know, there's less funding going in. So what do we do? And I think that we've got a choice to make. And my coaching always offers this choice. It's either you can do more to be successful or you can do less to be successful. Very few people go for, Let's do more. It's a tough thing to do that -- to try and amass more and more things. It's like, No, pare it back. Use the Pareto Principle: 80% of your success probably comes from 20% of what you do. So let's find what that 20% is, and let's just do more of it.

Hannah Lomax 15:54
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think as well, there's some kind of parallels that you can draw with organizations, you know, even in kind of the corporate world, where attraction and retention are, arguably, the two biggest things that people are focusing on at the moment. And I think something that you just touched on there around kind of being able to pull out that sort of strengths-based approach and really make more out of what you've got, I think, especially with the kind of economic climate that we're experiencing now, people are really thinking about, if we're looking at what we've got, we need to drill down even further and kind of maximize it even, even more. So I'd love to hear from you a little bit more about maybe what's, what's worked really well; what kind of, I guess, key milestones maybe you've achieved yourself on this journey?

Craig Parkinson 16:36
Yeah. Well, one of the things that was on my side when I went into building up a coaching sort of practice is that I've worked with a lot of schools whose, whose sort of focus was to how to get the pupils to become better learners. And it looked at how you nourish those pupils and develop their skills. And you look for what Learner dispositions they had, and you got them to use them intentionally and, like, Name, Aim and Claim them almost. But nobody was doing that for the teachers. So the teachers were doing all this development of pupils. The only development the teachers were experiencing was some professional development that was to do with pedagogy or some of the, you know, the formal aspects of teaching. But there wasn't anything that I was seeing that was actually saying to the teacher, "And we can help you to become the best version of yourself, so you can be what we call 'intentionally excellent.'"

Craig Parkinson 17:32
So that was, for me, the, the sort of easiest transition to make -- to go back to school and say, You know all those pupils that you've impacted on? Let's do the same, but let's do that with your staff. Because your pupils will come. Your pupils are transitory -- they'll come in and they'll leave. They'll have the time, then they leave. You want to develop your teachers and your staff to be the best that they can be. And there's a few schools around now who -- there's a lot of debate about coaching at the moment. And people like Rachel Lofthouse, if people are on social media, are really extolling the virtues of genuine coaching, as opposed to this thing that looks like coaching that's actually just mentoring and somebody just saying, This is, you know, this is how you will do this -- as though that's coaching. And coaching's actually something that comes from within, and somebody helps you to develop. So that's what I wanted to do: go back to the schools and say, let's give the same privilege to your staff that you've had for your pupils.

Embedding Strengths: Lighting a Firework vs. Building a Fire

Hannah Lomax 18:35
Yeah. It's almost like that role modeling, isn't it? And how did that change not just the experience for the staff, but also the experience for the students -- when they were seeing, I guess those staff members really kind of lean into their strengths and maybe even come to life a bit more?

Craig Parkinson 18:53
Yeah, I think the first big win was how staff saw themselves and saw each other. And they had this language of talent that they could use to describe, you know, what was going on. So, so they used the little cards, you know, to say, you know, I saw your strength in action. And they really enjoyed doing this, because it's such a positive experience. And it develops this positive environment. We know that people, people's engagement in their, their job increases just as a consequence of doing your assessment and seeing yourself. But there's a difference between what I call lighting a firework and lighting a fire.

Craig Parkinson 19:32
So if you do your assessment, and you don't revisit it, the firework, it's gone off, and it was Ooh! and Aah!, but then it's disappeared. Whereas when we try and build fires, what we get is, is this strengths-based culture within a school, which, what we know from research is that if we want pupils to become more metacognitive, for example, it's far easier to do it if the teachers themselves become more metacognitive. So if you can get both groups, you know, talking the talk (the articulation) and walking the walk (the action), then it happens. But if you, if there's a disconnect between what one community is doing within the school and the other, you tend to find that you maintain the status quo, because they, they're going off in different directions; nobody moves.

Hannah Lomax 20:17
That consistency, I think, you know, it's a little bit like those 5 Steps to Building a Strengths-Based Culture is give everybody the chance; you know, make it make it something that everybody is a part of, and kind of included in. How do you keep it going, then? How do you make it a fire, not a firework?

Craig Parkinson 20:34
I think you, first of all, have to be honest with people and just say, there's, there's no silver bullets around at all. You know, just doing this isn't going to be enough. Just buying a product and putting it on your shelf doesn't change anything, unless its job is to just hold the shelf down. You know, so you have to be honest with people and say, This is going to require you to do something to make it happen. You've got to bring fuel into this fire. You can't just be a spectator of your own success, the more you commit to it. And it's how you get people to make space for something different. So you start changing routines and habits.

Craig Parkinson 21:11
And quite often, the people who have got the most need of coaching are the ones who are least well-positioned to access it, because they're going too fast; they're not slowing down and, you know, it's really hard to turn it around. If they're going in a car where the steering wheel's being taken off and the accelerator's pressed down, how do you get them to slow down? And I think that's, that's the first bit is to say, If you want to do this, slow down. Look at it carefully and know it deeply. And take time -- so we'll book time in at the start with it. But then probably 3 months later, there's a typical sort of gestation period of, of development like this of 13 weeks. So go back 13 weeks later, and then say, OK, let's look at what's happened. Let's have a show-and-tell; what are the things that are working; what's not, so people can revisit it. And then let's do the next planning. So it's like doing individual coaching, but with an entire school.

Naming, Claiming, Aiming Strengths

Hannah Lomax 22:12
I love that kind of piece around accountability as well. It's almost taking that time to go back and reflect. One of my favorite analogies, I think, that I've heard from one of the leaders here at Gallup was, Don't make strengths a Spire experience, right? You go in, you have your facial, you feel great for 24 hours. And then you come back and nothing really changes long-term. And strengths habits is something that I think you touched on a little bit there. So even just noticing in other people, you know, I really appreciate this talent that I saw in you. Or you were using your strength there, kind of bringing in that language framework, is, is definitely something that we've seen to work. So can you tell us a little bit more about maybe some of the sort of initiatives or behaviors that you've been able to go in and kind of use to shape the mindsets of the people that are taking on this new kind of strengths language and approach?

Craig Parkinson 22:59
Yeah, it's, it's important that, that you spend time with the Name it bit. I think the more time that you spend -- that there's probably a good correlation between how much time you spend on Naming it, and then going on to be able to Aim it and Claim it. If you, if all you do, famously, is just Name it, Name it and Name it, you know, nothing happens. It's how you can start -- it's how you make space for the things that you want staff to do, and then giving them the language to be able to do it and the resources to be able to do it as well. Because if you say to somebody, "If you have time, do this," that time never, ever magically appears. Because other things want to fill that space.

Craig Parkinson 23:42
So it's, How can you find time? What are the 5-minute things you can do in the morning? What are the 5-minute things you can do in the evening? You know, that, that 10 minutes can, can make a big difference to staff. But making sure that they have the language; giving them time to explore it. Realize that what, what professionals, busy professionals need is to take abstract concepts and to make them into something concrete, and spending that time to do that, which is, it's how children best learn mathematics -- they go from concrete through to pictorial into abstract. We have to do the opposite for professionals -- we have to take the abstract and make it into something that, you know, Tell me about a time that it happened, and tell me about something then that you're going to do with it. And if we make space for that, I think staff can more readily engage with it. And that's when it becomes the fire: when you spend time with it.

Hannah Lomax 24:36
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well, it's kind of simplifying it, right? It's almost like, if you're trying to get somebody to go to the gym every day, you would say just go for 5 minutes for 5 days. And then over time, they're like, This is not so bad! I've done 10 minutes; I've done 15 minutes, and all of a sudden, to your point, it's just kind of part and parcel of who they are and their routine when they get up in the morning. And we have actually a question in the chat that I can just see. Jim, do you want to read that out for us?

Are There Ideal Top 5 Themes for Teachers?

Jim Collison 25:04
Yeah, let's bring, let's bring that in. So Alison asks a question. She said, Wondering if, when working with teachers, you're finding similar themes coming up in their Top 5? And then I, she says, I know, as an educator, I was initially concerned about Learner was at No. 8! And I think this brings in another question of, To be an educator, do I have to have Learner in my Top 5? We see this in other industries, where, to be a -- I'm an executive. Do I have to have Strategic? You know, I'm, I'm an engineer. Do I have to have, you know, do I have to have high Executing themes? So Craig, can you talk a little bit about that, and what you see?

Craig Parkinson 25:40
Yeah. And it's a really, really interesting thing. When, when I first started working with schools, the leadership teams were saying, We've probably all got the same sorts of themes. And I'm, Well, I actually don't know. But you know, there's a 1 in 34 million chance of you finding, you know, somebody with the same themes. And there really isn't a blueprint, you know, there isn't. Learner is as likely to appear in the Top 5 as, as it isn't, from what I've seen.

Craig Parkinson 26:06
What you do find in schools is that the blue themes, the Relationship themes, are really, really highly embedded in the Top 5, Top 10 -- you see a huge amount. And again, that ties in with work that I've done with schools previously, when you say to them, "What do you think makes the biggest difference to pupils' ability to operate well in a school?" And they say, "It's relationships." And you realize now that teachers are saying it's relationships, because they're the things that they themselves have in abundance. And relationships matter -- they don't matter more than everything else. There are things that have a greater impact on students than just great relationships. But I wouldn't try it without having good relationships. Because when, and I think that that leads back to one of the questions about coaching. You have to be able to develop a, not only good relationship with the person that you're coaching, but get them to get have a good relationship with themselves, to see themselves in a positive way. Because when, when you're coaching or when you're in education, you give feedback to the other party normally. And if the relationship's good there, they hear feedback. And if the relationship's bad, they hear judgment. And it's how we can stop things being judgmental: You tell me why I'm not good enough, or me telling myself why I'm not good enough, compared to I know how I'm great. And I know how great I am. And I know how I can be even more great.

Craig Parkinson 27:30
So back to Alison's question, I was chatting with Alison earlier, so thank you for putting the question on. I think that there are very, very many different flavors of teacher; the Learner part doesn't necessarily have to appear in the Top 5. And when I work with schools, we tend to just look at the Top 5 first, because teachers are really good at going to what they're not, like many people are. And it's like there's enough moving parts with the Top 5; there are enough options to consider there, without going any further. If it's not in the Top 5, it might be at 6 or 7 or, in Allison's case, at 8.

Jim Collison 28:08
Craig, talk a little bit about the importance of the diversity of those themes, as we think about educators working together and it, and the benefit of it, maybe not everybody being the same, right, in, in that setting. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Craig Parkinson 28:23
Absolutely. And a good example I can share with you is with one of the multiacademy trusts that I'm working with. And they now, they're really very happy to say, This role that I have, that the phrase I use: Put your soul into your role. That's what I want people to do, rather than just look at your job description, just OK, on that job description, what are the things that I do naturally well? I'm going to do those things. And if they're on your job description as well, I would love to do those. If they're, if that's a weakness for you, I'll take that off for you, and I'll offer this out to somebody else. So where schools start realizing that they've got more to gain by leaning into their strengths, they're able to achieve much, much more to a higher quality than they were doing previously. And the minute that you have that liberation of, I'm going home. I've achieved more, and I feel less tired, because I've not had to try and work out how to work with my 32 and 33. Staff then are really excited about going back to work to see what they can do next.

Hannah Lomax 29:26
Yeah, I think that's just a perfect example of how you can see strengths transforming engagement in organizations and in cultures and communities. I'm wondering whether you've experienced any sort of challenges of maybe people around you or leaders or maybe people that are kind of new to strengths saying, OK, well if I'm only Relationship Building, or I'm highly Relationship Building, what about all the other stuff? Have you had any experiences where you've almost had to kind of create a mindset shift around, you know, not jumping straight to the bottom of the report?

Craig Parkinson 30:00
Yeah, well, I navigate that one by just saying, We'll only look at the Top 5. We'll go further on when we need to. But I think human nature looks at what we're not. And it can still obsess about it, even at a subconscious level. So I'd just rather say, Let's look at what we are; find out how we can be these things. But spending time in the Claim it part is really, really critical there. Because if people don't do that -- if they don't realize how they've been successful -- they don't then know how to go on to be successful. And we don't spend enough time, I don't think, because of the fast-moving nature of, say, education and other sectors that I've worked in. If we spent enough time reflecting on how we're successful, we could then be intentionally excellent more often. But quite often, we just, let's, let's re-create what we've done. Let's make sure that we don't fall below where we were before. And that, that's how we then tend back towards being in a safe zone. And I think that strengths really is about taking your comfort zone, your safe zone and going beyond it and saying, So what, what happens when we're going out here? And how do we make it as good as possible, not only for me myself, but for the ecosystem that I exist within?

Stuck on Your Strengths Journey? Start With Your Top 5

Hannah Lomax 31:17
I love that. And can you maybe talk a little bit more about kind of how somebody might go about that? If somebody was thinking, actually, Do you know what? I'm listening to Craig today. And I realize that maybe I've got the opportunity to go back and spend a little bit more time in that reflections section of kind of that journey with strengths. What advice might you give to somebody who maybe feels a little stuck or doesn't know where to go next?

Craig Parkinson 31:41
I'd always say start with your Top 5, and ask yourself, How are these going to help you to do this? Because I just think of myself as being just, just Craig Parkinson, and that was it. And now I realize that I'm, I'm part of a team of Craig Parkinsons. So sometimes I can deploy my Learner. Sometimes I can deploy the Strategic. Sometimes I deploy Connectedness, Developer -- you know, I've got so many facets to me. And once I can do it intentionally, I can pretty much address anything that I want to do. So being stuck always starts with which of my themes are going to help me to become unstuck, first of all?

Craig Parkinson 32:20
So if there's somebody out there who, Nate and I have got 4 out of 5 similar in, in, in our themes, you just want to start with what you do naturally. You want to look at your Learner. OK, How can my Learner help me in this particular situation? And, and this, like, I think many people have similar stories, whereby you realize that the things that you used to do before you knew your themes, and now really your themes, so I used to like, if I was trying to problem-solve, I used to just get a book off the bookshelf, just open it and randomly pointing to a word and say, How does that word help me to solve this problem? And now I realize that that's my Connectedness, is How can I make a connection between something and another thing? And if, so that's why it's hard to say how other people would be able to get unstuck. Because we've all got these different themes. I'd say, start with your Top 5 there.

Reviewing Your Successes, Daily and Weekly

Jim Collison 33:16
I've, I've thrown that challenge into the chat, to say, Hey, how have you been successful? If you're listening to the recorded version of this, you'd have the opportunity -- like on YouTube -- you'd have the opportunity to drop that down in the comments. We'd love to hear those. And, like Nate said, he was successful during a coaching session yesterday, when I helped someone recognize the power of their strengths, driven by his Input and Learner. And you had mentioned, Craig, you had mentioned Nate, so you guys are similar in that. I think it's important that we, to what you're saying, Craig, I think it's important that we practice these, you know, we have a question in our Q, in our Q^12® assessment, praise and recognition in the last 7 days. I think we actually need to turn that -- I'm a big advocate of turning things on, on others. But that's one I'm actually an advocate on turning on ourselves. What, how can we recognize what we're doing in this, and what successes have we had that we recognize that, that we -- me -- have done in the last 7 days? And I think it's just an important exercise. Craig, what do you think about having people, on a fairly regular basis, ask themselves that question? Maybe on Friday, how was I successful this week? Right? What do you think about an exercise like that?

Craig Parkinson 34:25
Well, I definitely advocate something like that. And that, for me, I do it on a daily basis. So I've got, on the wall just next to my laptop here, I've got five Post-It^® notes with my themes on -- my Top 5 themes. And I've got a check-in and a checkout. At the beginning of the day, I'll look on that and I'll say, which one of these am I checking out and taking with me? And I'll move them over. And when I come back at the end of the day, I look on there and I think OK, how have these helped me? And this is part of my 5-minute morning, 5-minute evening check-in, checkout with strengths. But to do it in a bigger way, and this is where it ties in with, again, what, what happens in, in the most effective schools, where you have highly metacognitive pupils, they do three things: They plan what they're going to do. They monitor how they're going. And they evaluate how they did. And again, we try to get pupils to do this, and pupils become highly capable to doing this, when they're given the space to do it. But also, as adults, we think, well, it's OK for them, but we don't need to do it. And it's like, we're the people who really, really should be doing it, because we can self-regulate more readily than the pupils can.

Leaning on Your Top Strengths and Those of Friends, Family

Hannah Lomax 35:35
Yeah, absolutely. I think sometimes as well, you know, having a coach for yourself is almost the space and the time for that person to just kind of draw out some of the things that you perhaps have missed. I mean, I don't know about some of the people on the call, but for me, if it's not in my diary, it's not happening. So it's that accountability piece, right? It's always on my list, just sitting there, like, I'm gonna go home and do this tonight. And 101 things happen. So I think coaches have just got that kind of skill in pulling that out. The other piece that I was going to kind of touch on a little bit was when, when you're finding that maybe you're, you're going through some challenges, or there's a goal that you're really trying to accomplish, and people are saying, Well, you know, I don't have those Executing themes, or I don't have those Influencing themes. How would you coach them around, maybe either pairing with others -- where have you seen that to work in kind of schools and education? -- or even just turning, turning that inwards again, and looking at maybe the 6 to 10, for example, and pulling out some other pieces that, that they do have in there that they can kind of lean upon?

Craig Parkinson 36:37
Absolutely. And starting with, with the person first, rather than working in a team. I've got Maximizer at 32. And it was one of the biggest surprises. And Maximizer 32, I really, really challenged that -- for about 5 minutes. And then I went, You know what? I really don't set the bar high enough for myself or for other people. So I think you need to consider where you're starting from yourself and to ask How, how can you use what you're good at, like my Learner, to draw what it is that you don't do naturally well? So when Katie was coaching me, we talked about how I could sort of promote my Maximizer. And it was OK, so what I need to do is, find something that aligns well with it that I can attach it to -- something that sort of like just puts a booster onto, onto the Maximizer.

Craig Parkinson 37:33
So now I'll tend to use things like my, my, my Connectedness is the one that I go to more often and ask myself, OK, if we set the bar high enough here, how do we all benefit from this? How can we make it so that everybody can benefit? So then I start looking at how my Maximizer doesn't necessarily work for me, but how I then use it for other people. And it's, it's looking for that alignment between what you are and what you don't naturally do so easily. So this year, I'm having a year of Strategic, where I'm doing everything that I can really more and more about the things that I do well, but I'm also having alternate months of Maximizer. When I look at what it is that I don't possess, I also look at what my wife and daughter possess, because we, we're strengths themed all the way through. So me and my wife are both highly Strategic, which means we now know why we sit down and talk a great length for hours about literally anything and do nothing. But my daughter's got Activator, and she's got some high Executing themes in there. She's got Competition in there. So if we want things to happen, we'll just say, "Isabel, now's your time. Can you then get us started?"

Craig Parkinson 38:44
And then I'll say the same to teams that I'm working with: If you don't have it, do you have something nearby within you that's going to help you? Or does one of your friends around the table bring that to the party? Because if they do, hook into them; ask them how they can help you. And, and that's when you suddenly realize that when we, when we do align with what we do well with what other people do well, that strengths-based team, how do we describe it? Is it -- being able to get near-perfect results time after time. That's what we're looking for.

Hannah Lomax 39:22
Absolutely. And I think, you know, you've, you've kind of pulled out there the importance of feedback, right? So oftentimes in coaching, somebody will say, "Oh, I'm not very good at this." And I often challenge them and say, "Do you think that other people around you would agree with that statement that you've just made?" And you might, you might ask them to think about how other people would describe your ability to execute, if you're not an execute, an Executor or influence, if you're not an Influencer. And I think that that kind of feedback piece can be very valuable when thinking about the collective strengths of a group, but also for maybe other people to throw a different lens on it and say, Actually, Craig, I've seen you do that before. This is how you've done it. And it might remind you of one of those booster strengths -- I love that example -- or maybe another way that you were kind of able to achieve one of those goals. Yeah, really, really interesting.

Hannah Lomax 40:11
And as you think about kind of some of the other work that you've done, I mean, you've, you've coached lots of different people; you've kind of specialized in education. But because you've done some other work in kind of consulting and things like that, Have you, have you found any, I guess, common factors that you think have really helped you to just nail it through and through?

Craig Parkinson 40:30
Yeah, I tend to work from the position of like a generalist. So I like to try and look at things from, from the highest level possible and look for the similarities between things, which is part of the sort of Strategic overview that I like to have. And I know how some sectors would say, if it's not invented within our sector, it can't apply to it -- what they call the "not invented here syndrome." What I like to try to do is to get people to realize that every business has got people in it, and the people bring the strengths to it. And it doesn't matter whether you're an engineer or whether you're a professional squash player or a teacher or a photographer, you can find out how you're successful using strengths. And you can apply that more on a daily basis and get, get plenty back from it. You can be your best self; you can acknowledge what it is that you do well, no matter what sphere of work you work in. I don't think there's anybody -- the, the first barrier that people reach isn't for me accepting what their strengths report tells them, because that's, there's only one person who said, "That isn't me."

Craig Parkinson 41:45
And it is, if I'm just sharing the story with you, it's a good friend of mine who, one of the first people I coached. And she, she did her assessment, she downloaded the report. And I said, "What do you think to it?" She said, "It's really not me at all." She said, "I'm not Futuristic, and I'm not this, and I'm not this." And she'd downloaded Don Clifton's report off Gallup's website. And she was, "I don't recognize myself in this report." And it's like, "Well, of course you don't." When we then found her report, and she looked at it, she goes, "That's really me. Everything about that is me." So that isn't the barrier; most people accept what, what they see there. The barrier is, How can I use this in a way that helps me to be successful at work when my work requires this output? And people focus on the output a lot more, rather than how they get to that, that place. So it's how can you use your strengths to get a better-quality product there in a more efficient way? And that's transferable across all areas, no matter where I'm working in, it's the same question and the same realization.

Love, Frustrate, Appreciate and Best of Me Activities

Jim Collison 42:45
Craig, we have a couple of questions from chat -- a few comments going back to just people, you know, changing using this method, thinking through this, right. Alison said she completed a Gallup Strengths Coaching Certification this week; definitely, Connectedness driving it, and I think you could probably relate to that as well. Everything happening for a reason. And then Heather jumped in and said, Someone shared an activity with me during a session and I "improved" -- that's in quotes -- upon it for my audience, using my theme of Maximizer. You were just, you were just spending some time talking about that. And Heather comes back with a question, then: Are there activities or resources that you've used in your coaching sessions that you've found particularly successful? I think in the last few minutes, you've brought a few of those out, but anything else that you'd highlight?

Craig Parkinson 43:31
Yeah, I think the Love, Frustrate and Appreciate activity is really, really well received. People like to feel the love first of all, but they like to know that it's not just a case of, let's talk about what we do well; let's talk about the things that also frustrate us. And when you present activities that you've, you do for the first time, you don't know how they're going to work. And that was the one that made me realize that this had so much, I'd put sort of like 5, 6 minutes aside for it. And we went into it for 20 minutes. It's just one of those that I think really, really helps. But there are so many different resources to use. There's no one thing that works everywhere. But the nearest one for me is Love, Frustrate and Appreciate.

Hannah Lomax 44:18
Yeah, there's so much value in that one. And I think what I've seen, you know, in some of the coaching that I've been involved with as well is oftentimes, when people share the one that, that frustrates them, others are like, "No, we need that. That's the best thing about you. Without that, we'd go crazy." So it's kind of reaffirming, you know, some of the things that maybe did, like it says, frustrate you a little bit. The Best of Us as well. Craig, have you used that many times in coaching before?

Craig Parkinson 44:44
Yeah, yeah. And I think that naturally leads on from the Love, Frustrated and Appreciate. So we'd probably do in session 1 the Love, Frustrate, Appreciate. And then when we start looking at -- when staff have had chance to explore their own themes and to know each other's themes, you know, I'll challenge them, sort of, Next time we meet up, you've got to be able to easily explain what your Top 5 themes are, what the person who works nearest you's Top 5 themes are as well. And know at least, you know, the Top 2 of everybody else in your team. But then we would use The Best of Us. And I think if you, if you do those activities too soon, people are too safe with it. People don't want to say how are you going to get the worst of me? So I think that you, you let the fire start burning a bit, and then revisit probably on that, that 3-month check-in, that touchdown, and just say, OK, we're gonna go to that next level now. Then 3 months later, we probably look at, should we look at the Top 30, Top 10 then.

Jim Collison 45:41
Craig, is there a way to know when you're to that point? Because I hadn't thought about it in those terms. In other words, there's some things that if we do too early, we, we burn it unnecessarily, and they're not ready. Is there, in your estimation, is there a way to know a group is ready for that kind of exploration to say openly what they're frustrated about? Because that's not always safe, right, in some environments. And I would think about maybe teachers here in the United States. I can, I can't speak for the rest of the world, but they're under fire here in the U.S. right now. And the engagement is super low, and they may not feeling like being vulnerable. Any clues from, as you're thinking about knowing, OK, this group's ready to do that?

Craig Parkinson 46:25
I approach any group activity with the absolute assurance that I'm going to be able to draw out of them the things, it might be just one little point, pinch point for them. I want to get something out that just, just makes them go, This is the truth, and I've never said this before. I'm always listening for somebody just saying, "I've never said that before." As to when's the right time for it? I don't, I don't know, Jim.

Hannah Lomax 46:53
There's so -- Oh, sorry. Go ahead, Jim.

Jim Collison 46:57
No, no, go ahead, Hannah.

Hannah Lomax 46:58
There's so much variance. And I think that one-to-one coaching in the runup to a team session is, is really a game changer, because it kind of minimizes all of that group talk of, you know, Dave doesn't understand his Harmony, or Karen's wondering why she's head of strategy and how Strategic isn't in her Top 5. So you give people that kind of safe space to iron out some of those questions to get really comfortable with their own profile first and lean into it and be excited about it. And then it's, I'm bringing it to a team now. And I think, to your point, you know, every group is different, right? We've all got different strengths. So it's going to depend on so many different factors. But I'm wondering as well, Craig, if you've had any examples of kind of measuring the impact, and I mean, that might be qualitative. So when everyone comes out, and they say, Wow, that was great! I learned so much. I can understand members of my team better or differently. Or whether it's kind of looking at KPIs or maybe even student scores or engagement or anything like that, have you had any examples of where you've been able to really capture the impact of the work that you've done?

Craig Parkinson 48:03
Yeah, and that's a big part of the work that I've been doing for 11 years has been looking at, what does the research say has the biggest impact? And there's a metric called an Effect Size, which is used in academic settings. And I like to use that with any metric that the school I'm working with wants to use. So if they want to look at how staff self-perception surveys change from, like, precoaching to postcoaching, we'll look at things like that. Schools are awash with data, you know, we don't need to create any more; what we need to do is find the usable data that's in there. But being able to quantify the impact, which is where I think a lot of schools will, will do things differently. They don't know why, and they don't know when they've been successful as well. And I think it's bringing that clarity to schools, and being able to say, Whatever metric you want to use. Do you want to use students' outcomes? Well, let's look at that. Let's find something else. Let's at least find three ways to measure it. Because if we just find one way, that's like assuming that a place is like it is just because you've visited it once. Go back again and again and see if it's still true.

Hannah Lomax 49:14
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's an opportunity for celebration as well, because we know the impact that strengths has on kind of key business outcomes and, of course, on how it feels to know yourself and the team around you even better. But it's nice to be able to look back at that data and say, Actually, students genuinely performed better because the teachers that they were being led by knew their strengths, and it had that ripple effect. Or organizations who are experiencing conflict or, you know, maybe even students that were having a bit of a tough time were able to increase in self-efficacy or kind of performance. Yeah, really important. I'm just wondering as well, whether we've got any other questions in the chat.

Doing More With Less: Focusing on Impact

Jim Collison 49:53
Hannah, let me throw one in, based on something Craig had said -- and this will be the last call for the chat room, if you have questions; the official last call. Closing time, we're about ready to play closing time. Craig, as we thought, as you think about doing less, right, that was something you said, you know, postpandemic, if we can even say that, we've all gotten busy again. How do we intentionally go about that process of, of slowing that, slowing back down? Or doing less, which is more? Can you talk a little bit of, like, practically, how does that work?

Craig Parkinson 50:27
I think, with any, any change that you want to take part in, you have to structure it in your, you have to make space for it. And, you know, you gotta use the sharp elbows, because work will sort of like fall onto you like a collapsing house, and you've got to make a space. And that takes work sometimes to do that. So if somebody's got high Belief or high Responsibility, it's gonna be really hard for them to say, "And I'm not going to do that, because I'm going to invest in myself just here." Whereas for me, it's really easy. Because all I do is just say, right, I'm just going to let my Learner loose on this. And I'm going to give my Learner 2 hours to do this.

Craig Parkinson 51:06
So for me, I like to know the impact that things are having. So I'll like wear a WHOOP^TM band for, for the biometrics. I now take part in cold showers and meditation. And I make that space by, I'm asking myself, What difference does it make? Because if it's not making any difference, I need to find something that is. And all the metrics show me that I'm getting a good return on that time. And that's probably taking 3 minutes for a cold shower; meditation takes about 8 minutes. In 11 minutes, I'm getting a lot more back. And that gives me confidence to say "No" to things, to allow me to do those other things. And I think that's, that's the important bit. We need to be able to say "No," so we can say "Yes" to ourselves.

Jim Collison 51:50
Is there, is there a strengths-based approach to saying "No"? Like, help me out here. Because like --

Hannah Lomax 51:57
Yeah, can you teach us, Craig?

Jim Collison 52:00
You know, it's hard sometimes. I mean, it's really -- it's easy to say; I think it's harder to do sometimes.

Craig Parkinson 52:05
And I think if you've got high Executing, it's going to be really, really hard. If you've got, you know, if you're, if you're Achiever's there. What I'd encourage people to do is to, so, direct their Achiever towards the thing that you want to make the space for. Because if you say, "My to-do list has to have a period of time of 30 minutes where I don't do, I just be," then you'll probably more likely make it happen.

Jim Collison 52:32
Yeah, that's, that's maybe a thought is to schedule it out. And be like, No, I'm going to take this time, and I'm going to move away from these things. I'm going to go somewhere else. I'm going to think differently or purposefully. For me, as an Arranger, you know, I like to have lots of things going on all at the same time. And that's maybe to choose some activities that I know are going to be relaxing for me, are going to be not creating necessarily more work. I don't know, Hannah, for you, as you think about that in your, in your role, in your world, How does that, how does that work for you?

Hannah Lomax 53:05
Yeah, I think -- yeah, great question. I think there's a couple of things. I think having that coaching that is connected strongly to performance is really important, right? So I might come out of work and think that was the best day ever. And if I'm not asking myself the question, Did that get me closer to or further away from my goal? Then it doesn't really matter whether I had fun or not, right? Like, it's great, but it's kind of like the icing on the cake; you need to think about whether what you're doing is actually tied to those performance outcomes or those goals that you're working towards. A couple of things that I've used as well, which I've had to apply my strengths to is the Must, Should, Could. So that kind of hierarchy, like, I could do this. I should do this. But I must do this. And then leveraging some Discipline, either through, I've got Focus No. 5, thank goodness or a coach who's saying, How's that going? How's that kind of hierarchy going?

Hannah Lomax 53:56
The other one that lots of people, I think, use is the kind of, the two arrows with Urgent and Important on, on kind of a spectrum. But yeah, I think it really is that piece around coaching and connecting that back to those goals that you first set out. And I think, again, that comes back to knowing so much more around the "Why?" Like, why did you start to do this in the first place? And are you still working towards that? Or have you gone slightly off grid? And I think having people around you to keep you on track is really important and impactful as well.

Jim Collison 54:28
Heather makes a great statement in chat. She says, Saying, "No" -- I remind people to review what is on their goals. And if it doesn't align, it makes it easier, right, to say "No" if it's not aligning with the goals. Saying "No" to this means saying "Yes" to that. And I kind of think of a, if you've got a bunch of things going on, and you're saying, Here's what I'm, here's all the things that I have to do -- and circle the ones you're saying "Yes" to, and then, and then cross out the ones you're saying "No" to, you're still saying "Yes" to things. I think sometimes we think, as we look at this, we're like, I'm only -- gosh, I'm only saying "No." And then you're like, No, there's maybe some things that we're saying "Yes" to, to kind of stack that. Craig, would you add anything to that before we wrap it here?

Craig Parkinson 55:11
Only the, just to show how the Parkinson team works, where my wife's got Deliberative at No. 1, which is the person who says "No"; she's the person that keeps me safe. Once upon a time, it used to be the person who spoiled the fun. And now, I lean into that, because it means that, that I don't go down paths that, that are dangerous. So saying, "Yes," sometimes, can be as bad as saying "No." And I think if you've got people around you who can help you to make higher-quality decisions, you know, let those people help you. If the metric is going to be how many times you say "Yes" versus "No," you might need a better metric.

Jim Collison 55:46
Or a diversity of thoughts and ideas as well, right. I think for me, that was really important to realize. What my partner was bringing to me wasn't No, it was just diversity. It was, it was maybe Yes in another way, right. And my garage is always a mess. And the other day, I said to her, OK, I'm done. Can you just organize this thing for me? And it was so funny. She got a sparkle in her eye. And she went, Yes! She's been dying to do that for 33 years. Right? She's been waiting for me to ask her to do that. And I just finally said, "I can't do this anymore. This isn't in my skill set. Can you -- " and I gave some requirements. Like tools needed, I need to be able to put the tools away fast; otherwise, I won't put them away. And she's like, I'll make it happen. So just, just spreading that around a little bit, I think, sometimes in getting that diversity of thought is super helpful. Hannah, we've come pretty close to the end of our time. Final thoughts? And then thank Craig for coming out.

Hannah Lomax 56:43
Yeah, I think it's been a great session. And if people do have follow-up questions or want to hear more from, from Craig about kind of any of the work that he's done, then feel free to reach out. But Craig, thank you so much! It's been a pleasure. It goes so fast, doesn't it? But we, we look forward to spending some more time with you very soon. Any final thoughts?

Craig Parkinson 57:03
Obviously, thanks, you guys, for making this, this hour pass so quickly. That's, that's ridiculous how quickly it does happen. And for making me to think more deeply about things as well. I think it's, it's like the most personal and public coaching conversation I've ever had. And I hope that people have been able to take something from, from maybe the stories that I've been able to share as well. So thanks for making the space for me to be able to join you there.

Jim Collison 57:29
Craig, if folks had questions for you, and they wanted to contact you, what's the, what's the best and easiest way to do that?

Craig Parkinson 57:34
So on Twitter, you'll find me @cparkinson535. The number "535" follows me everywhere. It's my stalk, it's my Connectedness as well. Or cparkinson535@icloud.com. And my Connectedness is ready to say, "Hi!" to some new guys.

Jim Collison 57:54
Awesome, awesome. Well, it's, it's great, great having you. Some great conversation. I always feel privileged because I get to be a part of every single one of these. And I've got some great partners here at Gallup, including Hannah. Hannah, thanks for, for making this happen today. Appreciate that.

Hannah Lomax 58:10
Thank you! Best hour of the day!

Jim Collison 58:11
Well, I think so. Ah, I've got a couple more of those ahead of me; you're almost done. With that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we do have available now in Gallup Access. Head out to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths and you can log in and get that information. Or if you're hearing this, and you haven't taken the CliftonStrengths assessment, there's a lot of information on taking it right there. For coaching, master coaching or to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, just send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. We'll get that routed to the right person to have a conversation. Stay up to date on all these webcasts. If you want to know what's coming up, we have a ton coming up here towards the end of the year. And maybe you're hearing this in 2023 or 2024; I'll still have things going on. So head out to gallup.eventbrite.com -- gallup.eventbrite.com -- B-R-I-T-E. And you can register. If you follow us there, you'll get a notification every time I post something new. So a great way to stay up on all the webcasts. Join us for the 2023 Gallup at Work Summit. Yes, in person this year. So again, you might be, it might be later after 2023. And you're like, That's old news. But it's not right now: gallupatwork.com. Get signed up. Join us in Omaha for the in person. We have virtual available as well. If you can't make it, you can get the virtual ticket. Love to have you be a part of that. And then join us in the conversation anywhere on social just by searching "CliftonStrengths." And we want to thank you for joining us today. And for those that joined us live, we appreciate that in the chat room. Thanks for coming out. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Craig Parkinson's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Learner, Strategic, Intellection, Input and Connectedness.

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