- What are the 4 phases of the sales process?
- How can you apply your CliftonStrengths to get better at sales?
- What part does the "first confession" play in establishing trust and closing a deal?
Dean Jones, Global Talent Development Architect and Senior Learning Consultant at Gallup, was our guest on a recent Called to Coach. In Part 3 of a series on coaching sales performance, Dean reviewed the different types of sales and then discussed 4 phases of the sales process, and how to apply those phases to each type of sales. Salespeople who want to be successful at sales apply their unique CliftonStrengths to build relationships and to discover the needs of prospective clients, and to find and configure products or services that fit those needs. The "first confession" from the client can play a significant role in establishing trust and, ultimately, in helping the successful salesperson close the sales deal.
Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 9, Episode 23. This is Part 3 of a 3-part series on coaching sales performance. Access Part 1 and Part 2 of this series on coaching sales performance.
When I'm coaching salespeople, ... I would say that the [client] relationship really starts with the first confession.Dean Jones, 28:32
Whereas the first [phase of the sales process] was heavily relationship-based, ... being curious, digging in, building that kind of situational awareness, ... this [second] phase is really listening and matching.Dean Jones, 33:31
These 4 phases ... can happen very quickly. So ... you look at product sales, you can go through all 4 phases in a phone call. ... You can also go through these 4 phases, and it can take months and years.Dean Jones, 26:19
Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and live from our virtual studios around the world, this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on May 7, 2021.
Jim Collison 0:20
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's just a link right above me there that'll take you to the YouTube page. Sign into your, with your Google account, and we'll get you there. Or if you're listening after the fact and you have questions, you can always send us an email: email@example.com. Don't forget, subscribe on your favorite podcast app or there on YouTube. A great way to keep up with everything that's going on with Called to Coach. Dean Jones is our host today. Dean's the Global Talent Development Architect and a Senior Learning Expert for Gallup. He's also the Chair of Gallup's Diversity Council. And Dean, it's always great to have you on Called to Coach. Welcome back!
Dean Jones 1:06
Thank you. Thanks for having me here!
Jim Collison 1:08
Dean, we've been doing an extended kind of 3-part series as we, as we think about salespeople, which I think is just a huge, like, we couldn't have picked a better topic going into recovery as we think about what's going to be really important going ahead. We're going to need to start selling stuff again. And I think this is one of those areas I think we think we can just hire salespeople and just give them a few, you know, give them a skew list and say, and say "Go," but I don't, I don't think that's necessarily true. Why don't you spend a few minutes catching folks up if they just joined us here -- catch folks up on what we've talked about in the past, and then we'll dive in.
Dean Jones 1:43
Yeah, no, that's great. And I think I, I posted on LinkedIn yesterday, I love salespeople. I love working with salespeople. When we were thinking about what to do next, I was thinking about, What do I want to talk about? I spent, you know, for the early part of my career, I was actually in sales. I did sales myself and I was actually responsible for managing salespeople. And then in my career at Gallup, I spent a lot of my career at Gallup working with our business development folks and our consultants that work with clients and like that. And I just think, you know, there's just something about salespeople. And I think -- this is going to be a funny way to kind of back into this, but -- I think sometimes when I see coaches working with salespeople, where they're, the coaches are trying to map their own instincts about working with people on salespeople, and they're squashing their talent.
Dean Jones 2:39
You know, and so they're, it's like they're trying to make salespeople into coaches, or they're trying to make them into managers, or they're just trying to make them generally into more sensitive human beings. And I think that there's a particular (not that salespeople aren't sensitive, but) there's a particular talent that people have that are particularly great in sales, right? That drive, the ego drive, the strength, that Self-Assurance, all those kinds of things that make somebody really great, that whether it's fueled by Belief, or whether it's fueled by Significance, or fueled by Competition, all those things that make somebody really great in sales, right.
Dean Jones 3:16
And I think it's, what I've seen is I've seen great strengths coaches be able to help salespeople harness all those talents and use them in a way that's really productive both for the salesperson themselves, the organization they work for and for the client, right, so that everybody gets what they need. And so a lot of this series is hopefully kind of talking a little bit about that, this world a little bit. So that if you're a strengths coach and you're working with people in this domain, you feel like you can navigate this world a little bit. Right. One of the questions we've been kicking, we've been kind of kicking the can down the road here is, Do you need to have sales experience in order to coach people in sales? Right? And, I've been, every time I've said, "Hey, I think we'll tackle that." And then we didn't tackle that. Let me tackle that up front here. And by the way, I'm going in completely out of order from what I said we were gonna do here. OK? So I don't know why; I'm just talking here. So you just guide and direct. OK?
Jim Collison 4:15
Sounds good. Keep going.
Dean Jones 4:16
But I think it's one of those things where I don't think you necessarily need to have sales experience. But I think you need to have experience working with salespeople. Right. And I think that it's, I think it's a hard thing. I don't, I think it certainly helps if you have sales experience yourself. And particularly if you have sales experience and you were good at it, you know what I mean, I think that that is particularly helpful. Sometimes it can blind people, you know, people that I think don't have the benefit of strengths can say, "Oh, you should just do it like me" or "This is the way to be," right. I think if you're a strengths coach, we assume that you got enough wherewithal that you know there's many different ways to accomplish a result. And, and you, you're cognizant of that, so we don't have to tell you that piece, and you know, that, that salespeople can, can, can be successful using their unique combination of strengths, whatever that may be, right.
Jim Collison 5:10
Dean, does it need to be successful sales experience? Or, or because like, you know, I was in sales; I've done sales. I don't think I was very good at it. Like, I mean, I have a different kind of influence, you know, Influencing Themes. I'm a terrible closer, but I'm really good at generating kind of interest and those kinds of things. So I didn't feel like I was a very good salesperson. So if, if I'm coaching, and I just, but I've been in a sales org, is that what you're talking about? Or does it need to be successful?
Dean Jones 5:39
I think you, I think you got, so here's, like, I don't want to put too many qualifiers on this, right? I don't think you have to be some crazy rainmaker. Let me just be clear, right. But I do think you have to have, like, I think it's useful if you've been in that world, and you've had some success in that world. And I don't mean that, and, and, you know, what you said, Jim, I would, I would qualify as having some success in that world. Right? You know, I think if it just myst -- if you were in that world, and it just totally mystified you, I wouldn't coach salespeople. Right?
Jim Collison 6:11
I could do it. And I was OK, I was OK at it. I was never on the top of the lists. And I, it's not a vocation I naturally gravitated towards. But, but no, just some clarification, because I think it is like, "Hey, I have to be a top salesperson to be able to coach." I don't think that's what you're saying. Right?
Dean Jones 6:30
Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. And, and it also might be that you've worked with salespeople, so you got some appreciation for the sales process, and for who salespeople are and the different types of sales. It's some of the kind of topics that we've talked about in this series. So I think it's, you want to, you know, the, the point really is this, you want to be somebody that you've got enough experience in this world that you're credible, right. And that you know, you know how to kind of navigate this world; you've thought about it, you've talked about it, you've got experience with it, around it. So you've got some exposure that support you.
Dean Jones 7:03
And also, I think the big thing is just having some appreciation, that, that for the kind of talent it takes and the kind of drive it takes to be successful in this. We, one of the things we talked about in the first session and all, and I think we reiterated it a little bit, but we know that there's certain talents, there's certain things that we would consider talents and strengths that, that you need to bring to bear. You got to figure out some way to, to be, to have your own drive and motivation. And that drive and motivation has to be primarily intrinsic, right? And so it's got to be something when you look at sales, you've got to be, as a salesperson, to be successful, you got to have, you got to find your drive somewhere, right? You got to have some, some level of competitiveness, right?
Dean Jones 7:50
So, and again, it may not be driven by the theme Competition -- I want to be careful here -- it might be driven by something else, your achievement drive, for instance, or your, or your Significance or something else, right. You got to have a level of high confidence, right? You know, you know, and we talked about this. I think people in the chat kind of picked up this in our previous sessions: You got to have a certain amount of swagger. You know, you got to, you got to have belief in your product and the impact that you're having and like that. I will tell you, I think it, I think over time, as, you know, I'm a guy who's been around sales for like, the better part of 25 or 30 years, right. And I think that shifted for people. I think a lot of times it was a lot of convincing people and trying to sway people and influence people.
Dean Jones 8:37
I think that a lot of the swagger now that you see in business development people now or in salespeople now comes from their belief in the impact, right, or their sense of mission and purpose around the work that, around what they're selling. So I think the tone of it has changed slightly, right? You got to have a desire to influence people, in whatever way you do that. And that might be, that might be through your Influencing Themes. But it also might be through Execution Themes or Relationship Themes, right? However you -- or your Thinking [Themes], right, depending on the type of sales that you're doing and the type of industry that you're in.
Dean Jones 9:12
It also, you got to have some ability to set up, organize and manage your work. So you got to have that piece. So those are some of the things you got to be able to do and, and, and you think about those as the job demands or the needs of the job that in order to be successful in the role that a good coach will help somebody figure out, How do I use my, my unique combination of strengths to be able to address that, right?
Dean Jones 9:38
We talked in a prior session about 3 types of sales. And this is, again, broad, but we talked about these 3 types of sales. And I think it's useful to know because the requirements of each type of sales are different. So we talked first about product sales, which is -- tends to be highly transactional, and it's really where you're selling a standard product or service to an individual or a decision-maker in an organization, right? Tends to be a quick sale; may not be a very protracted sale. Sometimes, if you look at some other types of sales, the sales process can be months and even years. In this kind of, in product sales, it's typically fast.
Dean Jones 10:18
I'm laughing because, you know, Jim, you bought a new car just recently, product sales, right? You know, so it's a, it's a conversation or a couple conversations and you're done. And you're on to the next one, right. And so that ability -- one of the things we talked about is that ability to create relationships quickly, to have the Thinking Themes to understand matching, you know. Matching is like, Who is this person? What are their needs? What are the requirements around it? Here's the product; here's how the fit is going to work on that. So that, to have enough of the thinking to be able to do that, and then enough of the influence to be able to move people to action quickly, whether that's through relationships by establishing trust; it may be through something else. But it's, it's you, you're, you're able to move people to action quickly, right.
Dean Jones 11:06
The second type of sales that we talked about were solution sales. And that's where you're really solving a problem. So it's taking and configuring a set of products, so that you're solving a problem, a problem for someone. And again with that, it's being able to build the relationship so that you have a deeper understanding of what the need is, right? So in some cases, the difference, I think, with solution sales and product sales, is you -- it's both listening for the need. But sometimes with solution sales, it's looking for what's the root of the problem?
Dean Jones 11:37
So the client may say to you, Hey, we're struggling with this, or we're struggling with that. You got to be able to not just address the surface symptoms, right, but to be able to look through that and say, Hey, what's really the root of the problem there? so that you can put together a solution to address it. So it requires that enough Relationship Building and enough trust that you can build that, and enough Thinking that you can think through Oh, how, what's the dynamic? How does this work, right? Enough expertise in that particular area that you can do that.
Dean Jones 12:09
And then the other thing that requires is being able to configure the solution. So, and you may have partners to do that, but figuring out, What are the components of that solution? Will, will that solve the problem? It's not, it's, it's more than just the "mitten match" that happens in product sales, right? In product sales, it's kind of like, Here's the need; here's the product. Boom, we've matched these. And, and we're connecting those in the right way. I don't want to diminish it, but connecting those. In, in solution sales, it's more like, Here's the root of the problem. Now, here's all the components that together are going to address that and to make sure that the solution is really going to take, you know. And again, it's, you know, because it's typically in solution sales, it's a little higher, a little higher-priced sales, a little more protracted sales process, it takes something more, right.
Dean Jones 13:00
Last kind of sales that we talked about was consultative sales, right? And that's really where, it's really where you're really upstream with the client. And so it's really, sometimes when I train our consultants, I talk about this in the context of the trusted adviser work, right. But, you know, there's the, when, when you get downstream, so it's like, "Hey, we know exactly what we need. And here's the specifications for it." The next, you know, that's one kind of sales. When you get a little further upstream, and you say, "Hey, it's, we've defined, we need, we've defined the problem. We're not sure what the specifications for the solution are," that's a little further upstream.
Dean Jones 13:40
Consultative sales tends to be even upstream from that, right, where you're a partner and an adviser and a consultant to the client. You're helping them think about their business and what they should address. So it's even being able to say, Hey, look, to the client, you're working with them to say, Hey, here's the problems that you'll probably want to address; here's the things that you'll need to do. And so it starts further upstream in the thinking process with the client. And again, it tends to be, the scope tends to be broader; the relationships need to be deeper; you have to, because of the complexity of consultative sales, typically, there's a constellation of relationships that you got to manage and you're, you're, you're sort of being able to orchestrate consensus among all those relationships.
Dean Jones 14:28
Typically, the solutions or the types of solutions are more complex. So the execution needs are, are, are more, so you can kind of feel that continuum: product sales, solution sales, consultative sales, there's a continuum there. And then the, the how you use your talents and strengths in each one is kind of different, right? And so I think sometimes we we want to, let me just make a point here around this, is sometimes we want to think consultative sales is better than product sales. And I would tell you I don't personally have that kind of value judgment. I do think there's more complexity with consultative sales, but transactional sales, the volume and the cadence of transactions that you have to do; the ability to create relationships quickly; the ability to -- and establish trust; the ability to do that quick matching also requires -- is demanding, right. It's just demanding in a different way.
Dean Jones 15:26
So sometimes it's helping salespeople to know, along that continuum, where do I belong, right? What do I do? I've known great people who are great consultative sale, salespeople. And, and part of is they don't, they, they, they in, in the talents and strengths that they bring to bear, that's really perfect for them. You put them in a transaction sales environment, they're a mess, right. It's moving too fast; there's not enough thoughtfulness; there's not enough, you know, enough moving parts. It feels, it feels too flat for them, and they don't know what to do.
Dean Jones 16:01
The same thing with, with great product salespeople. You know, you put them in that consultative sales environment, and there's just not enough juice there for them. Because there's not, there's not enough, you know, in that product sales environment, you're having hourly and daily wins, right? In the consultative thing, your win is once every 18 months, it could be, right. So it's, it's matching to where, where do I belong in terms of, of my own talents and strengths and, and my own kind of passions around it? So, so we talked about that piece, right. Anything on that, Jim? Or any questions from the chat that we should take around that?
Jim Collison 16:35
No, I think it's, I think it's a great overview of kind of where we've come to be. And now I think we get a great opportunity to kind of bring in the strengths piece to this. And so as we think through that, as we look at the opportunities that are there, kind of walk us through, I think you've got kind of a great outline here. And, and, and kind of walk us through that piece.
Dean Jones 16:57
Yeah, I think, here's how I like to look at it first, right? When I'm, when I'm, when I'm kind of breaking this apart and thinking about coaching somebody in this particular area is to break it down by domain. So I like to think about, as I'm listening to the person and listening to them talk about their talents, I'm, I'm thinking about for the -- given the kind of sales it is, how are they going to build relationships? How are they going to think strategically? How are they going to influence people? And how are they going to produce the results? How are they going to execute? Right? So I'm breaking it down by domain.
Dean Jones 17:33
And on the one hand, I'm looking at, what are the type, what's the type of Relationship Building, Thinking, Influencing, Execution that's required by this type of sales in this particular environment? And then I'm looking at the themes that I'm working with on this, right? So, and I'm trying to think about how is this gonna, how's this gonna match for people? Right. And sometimes I think, and this is what I was trying to illustrate, I think, last time at the end. Sometimes when I'm looking at, so let's take, for instance, Relationship Building, right? I'm not just, and, and I think, let's talk, let's talk for a second about product sales. Right? You know, we, I've said a couple times so far, you know, in product sales, part of product sales is being able to create that relationship quickly. So that I can create trust, I can build that relationship quickly with somebody, right?
Dean Jones 18:23
Our business development folks that talk to people who are interested in registering for open-enrollment courses are those kind of, in that kind of role, right? And they've got to be able to get on the phone with somebody and start to build a relationship and quickly understand, What are their concerns? What are their needs? What are their goals? What are their aspirations around that? So I may, in terms of, when I say look at the themes, so I know I've got this relationship requirement in the job here. But then I'm looking across all the themes that that person possesses, to be able to say, What are the themes that are going to be most relevant for this demand? Right?
Dean Jones 18:59
Now, it may be Relationship Themes, right? So maybe things like my Includer, maybe my Connectedness, maybe my Empathy, right. It may be some of those, those themes that I'm using to be able to, to address this. But it may also be themes from other domains that I'm using to establish those relationships. Maybe my Responsibility, right, or my Arranger -- here's the way we can set it up for you. Right? It may be my Communication, right? So my ability to be able to articulate what you're feeling and what you're thinking or what your needs are, that, you know, a lot of times in sales, it's being able to, you know, talk to a client, listen to their needs, and articulate back to them what they need in a way that really goes "clump," that really lands for them.
Dean Jones 19:45
Could be my Learner and Input, my ability to kind of understand and understand where they're at, you know. Could also be my, my ability to follow through, my Execution, right. So there's lots of, there's lots of other themes in other domains that may be the thing that I'm using to, to create, to fulfill the relationship demand that's happening over here in the job, right? So I'm always thinking about that stuff, right? And so to be able to look at that, because, again, we want to say we want to look at somebody's themes and say, Gosh, what are the things you can bring to bear in this job that would be the right fit? Questions or comments on this?
Jim Collison 20:25
No, we've been having, you know, I mentioned a little bit, even just from a personal example, I'm not a great, I'm just not a great closer. And I think in in, in my, for me, I'm really good at this step. Like building relationship, discovering needs, I can do that all day long, no, no issues. Right. And so, discovering that or knowing that is awesome, because now I can put myself in those situations and partner with somebody else, knowing that, that I can do that better than anybody. So, Dean, great to have kind of have that called. I don't know if I've actually ever thought through that all the way to this point to be like, yeah, that's my sweet spot in these, in these stages of the sales process.
Dean Jones 21:12
Yeah. And that's the thing, I think, this is where you get into, so as you start to look, here's what you're playing with. Right? So you've got the type of sales, and I think that's really useful. You've got the talents and strengths and somebody's bringing to bear. And then to your point, you've got the sales process. Right. And that's the other dimension that we haven't really talked about yet is what are the stages of that? You know, like, when you talk about, Hey, I'm great at building the relationship, but I'm bad at closing. Right.
Dean Jones 21:39
One of the things that, you know, when, when I've worked with salespeople, when, I'll say, I'll say two things here. First of all, when I've worked with salespeople, almost there's nobody who's good at every stage. Everybody's got strengths and weaknesses, relative to each stage of the process. There's things where they're great; there's things where they're weak, right. And the thing that oftentimes, when I'm, when I'm developing salespeople that I talk about a lot is, you as a salesperson are accountable for every stage. That doesn't mean you necessarily have to do every stage, right? You're just -- have to be accountable that it gets done. Right.
Dean Jones 22:20
And so sometimes, and this is where I think when we're coaching salespeople, we can help them to be able to think about like, OK, what are the things where you're going to lean in with your talents and strengths? What are the things just like managing any weakness where you need a system or you need a process, right, or you need partners, or you need coaching around it, right? So that you're set, or you, you need, you know, established talk tracks that you can go down, right. And so where you can get, where you can lean into those things to help you to be able to do that. It doesn't mean -- sometimes people hear it, like, you know, like relief, like, Hey, that, I don't have to be good at every process.
Dean Jones 23:01
In order to be successful as a salesperson, you got to be accountable for every piece. So it doesn't get you off the hook. You still have to be able to address everything. You can't be a salesperson who says, who says, "Hey, I'm just gonna open up deals, but I'm never gonna close anything." Right? We do, there are people that specialize in opening up relationships and like that, but ultimately, in sales, you got to, you got to be accountable for every piece. Right?
Jim Collison 23:25
And something's got to finish it, something's got -- you got to start it and have a system to close it. Yeah.
Dean Jones 23:30
That's right. That's right. Typically, when I look at the sales process, and, and it sounds funny -- the, the reason that I've looked at this is, is there was a time when I was working with an organization where all of the different sales leaders in the organization didn't agree on the same approach, right. And so one of my jobs in this organization was to be able to listen to all the sales leaders and to be able to come up with kind of some shared model of the sales process that everybody could agree on. Right. And after, you know, and I'd had some experience going into it.
Dean Jones 24:03
But one of the things that I, that I, I, as I, as I looked at it, I realized that there were some fundamental phases that every sales process has, right. And I'd broken it down to 4 and maybe 5 different phases. Right? So these are the kind of phases, when I think about the sales process, these are the 4 phases that I typically use. The first phase is being able to build relationships and discover needs, right? So are you able to go in, build the relationship, establish trust with the client, discover needs, right?
Dean Jones 24:36
The second is being able to determine and configure the product match or solution, right. So once you've assessed kind of what the needs are, and you've got enough trust in a relationship, it's being able to kind of talk about what are the, what are the, what's the match for the product or what's the solution around that. And in some cases it requires more or less configuration.
Dean Jones 24:58
The third is being -- and this is always a tough one for a lot of salespeople -- is going through a process where the client is evaluating in some cases, adjusting the proposed solutions, right? So you go through this period where, after you've kind of figured out, OK, yeah, this looks like the thing, the client's got to poke at it a little bit, right? So they got to evaluate it and, you know, adjust it, like that. And you look at, OK, just, you know, does all, do the all the pieces work, right? And sometimes you adjust it and say, Hey, we're not going to buy this now. You know, like, with your car, we're not getting the premium version, or we are getting the premium version. You know what I mean? Like, it's, you know, that kind of thing to be able to say, OK, where, where do we sit? Right?
Dean Jones 25:38
Then the fourth phase is the negotiating, the getting commitment, and the closing the deal piece, right. So going through that kind of negotiation, getting commitment from from the client, boom, we're going to do this thing, and you close the deal, right.
Dean Jones 25:51
And then sometimes I always add that there's a fifth area, which is implementing the solution and the program and managing the clients. So in some cases, I close the deal, and then I hand it off to a person or a team that's going to then implement it for the client. In some cases, I am, I'm responding, I'm involved in the implementation and then managing the client. And that, that becomes part of my ongoing then work that I do, right?
Dean Jones 26:19
So with these 4 phases, one of the things I like to point out is, is these 4 phases, you know, can happen very quickly. So you can have, you know, you look at product sales, you can go through all 4 phases in a phone call, right? You know, depending on the product and the price of the product and what the, and the complexity of the product. We, you can also go through these 4 phases, and it can take months and years, right. So, you know, in some consultative sales, this can be, this can involve hundreds of people, influencers, decision-makers, advisers, on the client side, on the provider side, you know, like to, that you've got to orchestrate it in order to kind of bring the thing to fruition, right.
Dean Jones 27:02
So, you know, you're, if you're in, for instance, selling ERP systems, for instance, you know, this can be a very protracted process, right, of lots of people going through it and figuring out what's the right thing. So I thought I'd talk about each one of them, and particularly, the reason I want to talk about each one of them a little bit in the sales process is just so you get a sense of the talents and strengths that you bring to bear there, right.
Dean Jones 27:30
So in the first, in the first stage, that stage around building relationships and discovering need, that's the early stage, and it's really about establishing relationships and building trust, right? I like to, I like to talk about it like you're building situational awareness. You know what I mean? I don't know where I picked up that phrase, but it's like, you're really aware of what's happening, right. And I always say, you know, great salespeople in this have done lots of research. They know, you know, they've done lots of research. They, they have, they understand the buyer. They understand the company. They understand the products. In some cases, they understand the financials of the company. They understand the industry, right? And the more that they've done this, the more expertise that they have, right. And a lot of what happens in the space is you're out to really work with the buyer to really understand who they are, what they need, what their organization needs, like that, and to be able to really uncover those needs, right?
Dean Jones 28:30
I think, I always, you know, when I'm coaching salespeople, I want to talk to salespeople a lot, I would say that the relationship really starts with the first confession. Right? You know, you know, like, the first time, you know, I don't know if you've ever had this experience, you know, as a guy who's been in sales, you know. Sometimes you get on the phone, and somebody says, Hey, I really want to know about this or, I'd really like to talk about this, and you start asking them questions, and everything is great, right? Their life is great. Their company is great. The world is great. There's endless money and resources. There's no problem here, right? You know what I mean?
Dean Jones 29:03
And it's hard to then start to get into What are the needs, what's driving this purchase? What's, what's behind this need, right? And that the relationship, the trust really starts the first, with the first confession -- the first time they say, "Well, we really are concerned about this," or "We really got a problem with this," or "I really want to, like, I don't, I haven't been able to see how to do this," right. So the first time there's a confession, you start to see, OK, now we're getting into the world of what the problems are and what the, what the needs. And I know when that happens, that I've established enough trust that people feel like they can share that with me, you know, you know. For the most part, you know, like I always say that crazy people, you know, like only crazy people tell their problems to total strangers, right? You know what I mean? You know, you're on the, you're riding the subway or like that, and somebody who doesn't know [you] comes up and just starts to unburden themselves with all their problems. Right. You know what I mean? It's really like, you know, I've gotta have some relationship, I gotta have some trust, right, before I start to, before I start to share what my problems and what my burdens are around that.
Jim Collison 30:12
Well, and sometimes you have that, you're in that place where you they don't know, you don't know them, they don't know you, so they can open up to you because you're not a known entity. And so if you can establish that trust quickly, there's some great opportunities there, you know, to to listen, because, you know, they're not sharing it with somebody that's close to them. Right.
Dean Jones 30:33
Yeah, you're outside of the situation, right, to be able to see that. And particularly if you have expertise. By the way, I hope, I don't mean to diminish anybody who's, who struggles with mental health issues. So I don't want to, I know, sometimes when I, I'm being flip, I don't, I don't want to just diminish anybody that's that, that is struggling with that stuff. Right? So but the, the intent here is, is that as soon, is that I can, I'm somebody that I can really, I feel like I can really unburden myself. And I've got somebody who can give me a perspective on it. Right. So that's that whole first stage of building those relationships and uncovering those needs, right?
Dean Jones 31:10
The second stage really is about determining and configuring the product match or solution, right. This is the stage where I can see for myself how my products will meet the client needs, right. And one of the things I notice that when you're really a great salesperson, as you're asking the client questions about themselves, their needs, their organization, like that, you, what happens in your head is you can hear it, right? You can hear the fit. And it's this thing, it's almost, it's this kind of crazy thing, but it's, it is really talent, right? Where you just naturally, you're hearing all of the connection points, right, in your head. And I always coach great salespeople to say, Hey, write those things down.
Dean Jones 31:55
There's the tendency sometimes with salespeople to want to communicate all those things in the moment, right. And oftentimes, it's better to kind of write all those things down and then go back over those things, you know. And so, but it's part of being able to, it's part of the thinking that you see, which is that, that ability to be able to connect what the needs are over here with what the, with what the, what the, what the offering is over here, right? So we're matching those things. And part of it is we want to help, as we're, as we're coaching people through this space, we want to help people with those Thinking Themes, right, salespeople with those Thinking Themes that help with that kind of matching, or those kinds of connections, right?
Dean Jones 32:42
The challenge with this, with this phase is also not just that I see, as the salesperson, that I see the match, but the client can see it for herself, right. So as the client is going through, it's partly I can see the match. And I know what the match is, but I could also communicate it in a way that the client can see it for themselves, right? It also may be a process, an iterative process, right? Where we start to, depending on the complexity of the solution, we start configuring the product set, or we configure the solution to make sure it's right for the client. And we start to kind of go back and forth where we're editing that, right. But it's this, this whole thing is, this whole phase is really determining and configuring that product match or that product solution. Right. So there's that whole piece, right?
Dean Jones 33:30
The, whereas the first stage was heavily relationship-based, building the relationship, being curious, digging in, you know, building that kind of situational awareness, as I described, this phase is really listening and matching. Right? So it's, it requires some different kind of Thinking Themes to be able to say, How do I pull that in? Now, to the thing I said earlier, Jim, sometimes people are really good at uncovering the needs, but they're not as good at the matching piece, or they're not as good at the solution configuration piece. And this is where you might bring in partners, right? Somebody who's a solution expert who can say, Hey, based on this, you know, these are the kind of components that I would make sure, or these are the things we need to address. Right. So again, the salesperson doesn't have to be the person that configures the solution, but they've got to be accountable that the solution does get configured. Right. So they've got to be accountable that somehow that gets done. Right.
Dean Jones 34:27
Third one is evaluating and adjusting the proposed solution. This is the one where I think sometimes salespeople really struggle, right? Because you start that first stage and there's, in that early relationship stage, you're building the relationship, it's kind of like dating, right? You're getting to know each other, you kind of like each other. You're, you know, you start to kind of fall in love, right? Then you start, in that configuring the product match or configuring the solution thing, you're talking about the future, right. Someday we're gonna buy a house, we might have kids, there's definitely a Labrador in the picture, you know what I mean? Like, you know, there's all that stuff, right? You know?
Dean Jones 35:04
And so then you hit this evaluation stage, and the tone changes, right? It's all of a sudden, like, I don't know if you're the one after all, right? You know, you go through that evaluation stage. And this is, every responsible client goes through this, right? You know, you buy the car, Jim, you kick the tires, right? You know, you go for the test drive. Right? And that's really what this is. It's like, Hey, does your, can you support this from a technology standpoint? Right? Or does it really include the content? Or how do people who've done this course, what ends up with those people, right? How well have they done? Right?
Dean Jones 35:43
So you go through this, you go through this period where the client is asking all the tough questions, right. And there's all this skepticism. And sometimes, I think, for salespeople, particularly salespeople that are really high Relationship, you know, the big Woo dogs like me, right, you get to this phase, and it feels like, Hey, the whole, the whole world changed. Right. And, but one of the things we have to help salespeople with during this, during this period is, is this is a normal part of the buying process. And in fact, in fact, a healthy part of the buying process. Right?
Dean Jones 36:19
I had this one funny, I will tell you this funny story for me years and years ago, right? I was selling corporate clients on a learning solution, right. And I was just about to sell this big deal to this, this big hospitality company, right. And I was working with the person that was in head, head of their learning and, and the person who was head of OD and, and I, and we're in the home stretch, right, we're about to close this deal. And I get a call from the gal who is head of OD and she says, Hey, can you come over to our office? We want to talk about this thing. And I thought, Oh, no, this is, this is not a good sign. And I said, well, what's, what's up, what's happening? And they said, Well, we realized that we, as we started to kind of go through this, we like you, we like the company and we like the solution. But we realized the main thing that, the main reason that we want to buy this is just because we like you so much. And we actually need to be able to address some of the questions that are coming up from other people, right.
Dean Jones 37:13
And I realized, like, in the long run, that wasn't a good thing. Right? I had Wooed them into the solution, but I hadn't given them, equipped them enough to be able to navigate this evaluation stage. Right? It was great learning for me as a salesperson, right?
Jim Collison 37:27
They were buying you -- they were buying you.
Dean Jones 37:31
And in some cases, that's not bad, right? You want to, want to like you, and like that. If that's not there, you know, sometimes, sometimes it's like, Hey, I'm buying the solution, in spite of the salesperson. That's always not necessarily a great situation. Right?
Jim Collison 37:46
Yeah, hopefully it's both, right. Hopefully it's both.
Dean Jones 37:49
Yeah, it's just, you know.
Jim Collison 37:50
Dean, is this, is this also a phase? As we think about, you know, sometimes if that second phase is fairly analytical, and we've, we've, we've built solutions in there, is this a phase in 3, where sometimes if the customer changes their mind, or we uncover new things, that if we're not adaptable enough, we get super rigid and start fighting the customer? So like "No, we told you," you know, that's, those are probably the worst words to come out of your mouth during, during this process. "We told you it's supposed to," you know, where our solutions are, I find sometimes, you know, again, this, this talent of being, of having some Adaptability, having some give, having some Harmony or having some, you know, having this ability to go, "Oh, I hear different things now, and I know we spent a bunch of time thinking about this, but let's rethink it now." And I think maybe that second step for, sometimes is the hardest one. It's maybe where deals flush, because people get defensive, or they get, you know, they get bitter. Like, "Ah, you changed on me!" Of course they changed on you. They're humans. Right. And so is this the stage where that kind of, that kind of happens?
Dean Jones 39:01
It can be, yeah. I think what happens is, if you've gone through that second stage where you're configuring it, if you've got -- sometimes what happens, you see as you start to go through that evaluation stage. And sometimes one is you get more influencers or decision-makers that may not have been through the first two stages, right? So all of a sudden, to your point, you got new information, right, or new requirements, right? Some, sometimes you discover stuff where the product or the solution doesn't execute exactly the way the client wants it to or thought it would, right? The truth is, it's, it's better for it to figure out, for them to figure that out now than after they've made the purchase, right? Then you got a, then you got a dissatisfied customer or a dissatisfied client. That, that becomes a bad, bad situation, right?
Dean Jones 39:46
So it's better to come through and have that come up now so we can figure out how's it going to work, right? You also know, anybody who has spent more than a day or two in consultative sales knows you're always gonna have proponents and detractors in the organization. There's always going to be people that are going to be your champions in the organization; there's also going to be people that are going to be detractors. And they're detractors because they, they want to, they, they, they feel like the organization can do it on their own. They've got a different organization they think would be a better fit. That, that's going to happen. And that's part of kind of navigating this evaluation phase, right.
Dean Jones 40:23
And sometimes, to your point, a lot of what happens here is reshaping the solution. And sometimes we decide, Hey, we need, we need other stuff here. Sometimes we decide, Hey, these components aren't necessary now, or we're going to phase them out. And that has impact ultimately, oftentimes, on the price, right? So, but navigating that evaluation phase, it's an important phase to be able to go through. And the piece that I want to make sure that I'm, I'm, I'm landing here is, is that sometimes you get to this phase, and this is where the salesperson gets thrown. Right? So she's super high Relationship; she's able to hear the match. She knows what the client wants. She gets to this stage, and the client all of a sudden is poking and prodding. And she, she's thrown by that, because it's not the honeymoon that it was in the, in the last stage, right? And so, and that's OK, right? It's helping people to kind of navigate and say, No, no, this is part of navigating the relationship. Right?
Jim Collison 41:24
Dean, I get this in my role all the time. I get this, even though I'm not in the direct sales role. When we produce, you know, we sell a new book, or we have a new offering. And we, we roll that out there. And then I get this instant feedback from, from coaches on, "Oh, I, I was hoping it had this." Or, "Is this included in that?" Or, you know, in listening to those channels, initially, I'm like, "Just buy it!" you know, kind of, kind of deal. But listening through those channels are very valid feedback for us to bring those in and say, OK, they're continuing to ask for these things, right. And if I, as a salesperson, if I don't pay attention to that, I miss critical feedback for version 2, or for, for whatever we're doing, right. And so I think the key is not to get, not to battle that. Sometimes our tendency is to want to battle than the customer. But to listen, I heard you; I hear these things. And then depending upon what kind of sale it is, of course, adjust or adapt.
Dean Jones 42:24
Yeah, and, and we got to remember, really, again, it's, you know, old-school sales, and we talked about this the first time, old-school sales is trying to convince the customer of something, right. The kind of, the kind of model of sales and business development that is the predominant model now is I'm really the buyer's advocate from the organization, right. So if I'm not fully thinking about, How am I helping this buyer to accomplish what they need, right, that I, you know, it's a challenge for me, right? So I got to really help the buyer to understand it's like, so when that new information arises, it's like, Hey, this is good news. We're finding out more; we're getting in deeper, right? And, or, Hey, look, we need to figure this out. Right? That, that should be good news.
Dean Jones 43:08
The -- to land this in the conversation around strengths coaching, and this is where you need to help people. And, and sometimes it means Hey, managing your Woo as you go through this time. Sometimes it means managing your Includer. Right. Sometimes it means thinking about, you know, the, the leaning into some of your other themes that you need might be your Responsibility, you know, so that you're responsive to what the needs is. Might be a little bit about your Analytical, right, some of your Thinking Themes, to be able to turn on Hey, or turn on that Learner and Input. Right. So to be thinking about how can I be understanding more here? Right.
Dean Jones 43:49
So it's adjusting, I think, some of the, some of the dials, right, to make sure that we've got the right combination of themes that we're leaning in during this phase, right. Last phase that we talked about was negotiating, getting commitment and closing the deal. Right. And this is the stage where the deal was finalized. And some people, you know, it sounds funny, but some people resist commitment. And some salespeople resist commitment, right? Because it, it, there's a certain finality to it, right? But during this time, the idea is, is how are we, how are we figuring it out so it's a win-win, so we can make sure the deal gets finalized and we can move to execution?
Dean Jones 44:31
So sometimes, depending on the type of sales, there's a significant negotiation around this. And there's some strategic navigation with the, inside the organization around the decision-makers and the influencers. Sometimes it's a matter, it's just simply a matter of saying to the person who's, who's buying the product, "Hey, do you want to do this," right? "Hey, is this the right one for you? Yes or no?" Right. I find that during this time, that as we go through this, there typically prior to the commitment, there's that period of kind of working out the logistics, right? Is there the money, the money piece, the price, the money, the financing, all that kind of stuff. The time, the timeline and the delivery dates, the components of the solution. There's some of working out the right resources. There's some of that, that resources.
Dean Jones 45:22
So after, and typically how it kind of flows is, you've completed that evaluation phase. They've, you, and you can kind of tell all the signs are coming in good. Yep, this is the right thing. And the conversation kind of shifts into working out kind of the logistics, right? What's this going to cost? When are we going to pay for it? When are you going to bill us? Is it this calendar year or next calendar year? When are we going to deliver stuff? What resources are we going to need? All that kind of stuff, you start to move into that logistics conversation that you know, some salespeople call these "buying signals." Right? This is that we're starting to confront the execution of the thing. And that leads us up to the commitment. Right.
Dean Jones 46:03
So great salespeople, as they move through this conversation, with great salespeople, each stage moves organically to the next stage. You, you build the relationship and the trust; you build that you have a deep enough conversation about needs; it automatically flows into thinking about what's the product or the offering, where's, where's the match? You talk enough about the product or the offering and the match, it flows naturally into the kind of questions that you'd have to evaluate the solution. That evaluation piece gets satisfied. It flows naturally into the kind of logistics around execution that signal, Hey, we're getting close to a commitment here. And then we moved, you know, there's a point where we just say, OK, it's time for the commitment, right?
Dean Jones 46:52
So I think it's helping as, to kind of come full circle, it's helping each salesperson to think about, What are my talents and strengths? And then how do I bring them to bear at each phase of that sales process so I'm using the right talents and strengths that facilitate the buyer moving forward? Right? That's what we care about -- the buyer moving forward, continuing to engage in the process, moving forward with the process. How am I using my talents and strengths to be able to do that? How am I managing the talents and strengths that I might have that would interrupt that or derail that in some way? Right?
Dean Jones 47:29
And then what other, what other support or resources do I need? Do I need other experts? Do I need a system or process? What am I doing? If I don't necessarily intrinsically, my natural talents don't, don't lend me to this, how am I, how am I managing that so that the buyer is getting what they need during this phase? Right? So I think in coaching salespeople, it's useful to look at each stage, look at what themes they're using.
Dean Jones 47:57
I also think it's useful, and one of the things I suggest doing, just like we do with, gosh, in so many other areas, is to do a little bit of win-loss analysis, you know. Is look at the, look at the, have that salesperson look at what are the deals you want? Now let's look at, look at them through this lens. What worked at each stage of the process? Where did you see yourself using your own talents and strengths to advance that? Right? Where, what were the things that you leaned into? What was the support that you needed? And where did you get that support? Let's look at the things where you lost it. What stage did it get derailed in? Was it early in the process, was it late in the process? Right? What was missing there?
Dean Jones 48:40
You know, oftentimes, the toughest question to ask is, What was missing? Right? You know, not What went wrong? But What was missing that would have made a difference there? Now, how can we make sure that that gets provided next time that comes up? Right. So I think that kind of win-loss analysis through a strengths lens, I think, is very, very useful. Right? So let me just pause there, Jim, comments that you have or questions from the chat?
Jim Collison 49:08
Yeah, we've got a couple. Tish had said, kind of back to your, you know, if the, if the customer or client's buying the salesperson or they're buying it in spite of the salesperson, though, that both cases typically lead to problems. Is there a wise way to protect the future relationship in that case? And as we approach this, Dean, any, any thoughts on if we get that, if the salesperson is getting in the way, so to speak?
Dean Jones 49:37
Yeah, I think, here's, here's the thing, and I think this is where we all have to, you know, be mature and wise about it. Right? I think, typically, you know, there's, for people that work in sales, most people who work in sales genuinely like human beings, right? And they like working with people, and they like being able to do that. They also oftentimes have a lot of passion around the product or offering that they've got, right? If they don't, I think you don't, you don't end up having longevity there, and you go figure out something else to sell, right?
Dean Jones 50:09
The one thing that I will tell you is, is everybody doesn't like everybody else, right? It's just natural. And we see this in a lot of areas. But you see this particularly in sales, is just because you're a good salesperson, and just because you love people, and just because you got passion about your product doesn't mean that every buyer is going to go, it's, you're going to click with every buyer. And that sometimes the best thing a sales manager can do is to say, "Hey, you're not clicking with that buyer." You know what I mean? We're gonna, you know, like, "You should hand this off to somebody else; you should go work with this other person over here." Right? That's always hard for salespeople, you know, particularly if it looks like it's gonna be a great deal. You know, it's always hard for salespeople, but you don't want it to be this thing where you as a salesperson are getting in the way of the deal getting done. So you got to be, you gotta, you gotta have a certain level of, of trust and longevity, that, you know, that, that, that Hey, this is, this is going to be OK. Does that make sense?
Jim Collison 51:06
Yeah, yeah. No. Right on. Johan asks a great question, too. We know that team engagement, that the manager dictates or influences up to 70%. How important is it, Dean? And I don't, we haven't run numbers exactly on this. But talk a little bit about great managers, having great sales managers.
Dean Jones 51:25
Yeah, you know, great sales managers make all the difference in the world. So, and I will tell you, you never, one of the beautiful things, and Johan it, it, you know, kind of coming full circle in the series. You know, it's one of those things, one of the things about sales, that is so incredible is, is it's so easy to measure performance. You know, our, you know, through sales, through the bookings, through revenue, you know, is the individual working, is the team working? Like that. And we know that sales managers make a huge difference, having a manager that can support and engage that person every day.
Dean Jones 52:03
Somebody in my career told me that sometimes that managing salespeople is like managing thoroughbred racing horses, right? You know, they're a little high-strung, they, but they're, they're oriented around performance, right? And they have a career that's got a beginning, a middle and an end. And it's really being able to maximize every stage of that career for them, right. And who does that is a great sales manager, is to really be able to help that salesperson really be successful and like, and be successful and kind of get up under them, so that they can be somebody, that they can really use their talent in a meaningful way.
Jim Collison 52:41
Justin asks this question -- I'm gonna kind of change it a little bit, but -- because we often think sales is all 4 of these, and an individual has to fit all 4 of them to make it, to make this kind of thing work. Justin's question is around, Are there any thoughts on coaching people who are charged with selling products that they don't really believe in? And is it, and I guess that sometimes it is a question of, What is it that they don't believe? And, and you alluded to the longevity, like, if you don't, right? So anyways, thoughts on this question, Dean?
Dean Jones 53:15
Yeah, it's really, I think it's a really good one. I think, Justin, there's so much complexity to this; it's a really great question. I think one is, you gotta, you got to look, you know, if you've been following Gallup research, you know that the expectations of the workforce have changed, right? And that one aspect of it is people are more oriented around mission and purpose than they've ever been, right. So, two decades ago, two decades ago, three decades ago, people -- not everybody went to work saying, "I'm here to make a difference in the world." Right?
Dean Jones 53:48
Now, I will tell you, almost everybody in all walks of life goes to work to say, in some way, shape, or form, I'm here to make a difference. I'm here to make a difference for the world, for my customers, for my community, for my company, for my team. I'm here, I'm here to make a difference. Right? And that's that mission and purpose kind, and I, I expect my company has some elevated purpose around that, right? And so you see that so that context is there in the background now in a way that it wasn't. So that belief in the work that I'm doing is more important.
Dean Jones 54:25
Now, I will tell you, with almost every product, no, almost no product nails it 100% of the time, right? And you want to believe in your product. But, you know, there's so many, there's so many products that they nail it most of the time, but not all the time. So I think it's unrealistic to say, Gosh, I'm gonna go sell a product that every single time is gonna nail it, right? There's always going to be problems. There's always going to be complaints. There's going to be stuff that, that doesn't work.
Dean Jones 54:54
You know, it sounds funny to, just to comment on something that's happened in the news right now. You know, Peloton is going through this difficult time, right, where they've got this treadmill. And certainly they are not the only company that has had difficulty with, that has sold treadmills or where treadmills have caused issues, right? But, and they just made the very difficult decision to be able to recall all of these. But I'm watching in social media, all the people now that are confronted with, Do I return this treadmill or not return this treadmill? You know, it's, it, you got to have a huge amount of empathy. It's a really challenging situation, right? And this is an organization that's very oriented around making a difference in the, in the lives of people, right? So if you're selling Peloton treadmills right now, or if you're a customer of treadmill, of those treadmills, you're dealing with that. So it's just an example in the news of that, the kind of thing that's happening right now,
Jim Collison 55:46
You know, and even with some of those high-passion products that attracts high-passion customers, and so it's gonna create high-passion transactions, right, or high-passion conversations that go on there, and, which sometimes -- I've always been, Dean, I've always been amazed at really good salespeople who, regardless of their background, can come in, learn a product very, very fast, then speak to that product with conviction and, and belief, and, and, you know, just to be able to go in and convince and help and genuinely come at it from a sales solution standpoint. In other words, yeah, this will help you, right, this, this, we can do something with this, and then move on to the next customer. I mean, it's just, the sales process is an amazing one for me.
Jim Collison 56:33
Dean, I think in this series, it's been really helpful for me to think through. I think these, breaking it down into these 4 areas has been the most helpful bit of it all and thinking through. You know, for me, I would think through, if I was coaching or being coached, I might come up with some questions in each one of those categories to kind of help me think through it. Like, Am I good at it? If I'm not, do I have someone who can help me? If, if not, How could I become good at -- cause some of those kinds of questions -- is that, can a coach kind of, is it that framework that would work?
Dean Jones 57:05
Yeah, I'm thinking about years ago, we did this thing where we were training our business development, folks, right? And one of the things we did is we laid out the sales process. And then we had them go do a self-assessment, right. But then we also had them share that self-assessment with their manager and with others that they work with. So they could also get some feedback around it. "I think I'm good at this. Do you think I'm good at this?" Right? "And what do you see? I think I use my strengths in this way. What do you see there?" Right.
Dean Jones 57:33
It goes back to Johan's question about the importance of having a great manager when you're in sales, right, is we know that great managers are great coaches. And when you're in sales, it's, you know, it's, it's wonderful to have a great coach. It makes all the difference in the world to have a great coach. Right? And you're more likely to be, to win yourself and be on a winning team if you got a great coach. So, so we know that with that kind of self-awareness exercise, that, yes, it's a valuable exercise. And yes, a great coach can sure help you with that.
Jim Collison 58:06
It's a good, good, good thought. Dean, we're at time. Anything you want to say to wrap this up for us?
Dean Jones 58:10
No, I hope this has been useful. I don't, you know, I want to make sure that it's not, this is not the definitive series on on selling. OK? I think that this has been, you know, I think in these 3 sessions, we've tried to just explore this in some different ways. I've worked in this area for 25-30 years; I have a lot of love and passion for it. And I'm endlessly fascinated by the power of people using their talents and strengths in this area. So hopefully, this has been a, I, it's been a great discussion in this area. And hopefully it spurred some of your thinking as you all go out and then work with people, and particularly salespeople in organizations.
Jim Collison 58:49
That's great. That's great. Thanks for doing it. Always look forward to these times; I learn a ton. Best part of my job. I don't have Learner, but the best part of my job is I learn so much just by spending time with you and all the great hosts that we have here on Called to Coach. Dean mentioned several times the other parts of the series. If you're listening to this, and this is, for the first time and you're like, where are the other, we'll link those on the site there, gallup.com. So if you go to gallup.com and, on this, for this session, we'll have all the links to Part 1 and Part 2 available there.
Jim Collison 59:20
By the way, you can take advantage of all those resources. Go to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. We post all these webcasts there. For coaching, master coaching or to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, or you're an organization that'd like to implement some of these with our help, you can contact us. Send us an email: firstname.lastname@example.org. Don't forget, you can stay up to date with all these webcasts. Just go out to gallup.eventbrite.com. We're gonna get together, and Dean is going to be one of the featured speakers at our 2021 virtual Summit. We're excited about that -- June 8 and 9. If you haven't registered for it -- and this is really just for our live folks -- do it by May 15. Then you get a sweet, sweet box, a physical box we're shipping to everybody around the world. Head out to gallupatwork.com, and you can register today. Certified Coaches, we have a discount for you as well. You can reach out to me if you don't have that code. Join us on any social platform by searching "CliftonStrengths," and we want to thank you for joining us today. Appreciate your attendance. Always great to have you in the chat room. We'll see you back for the next webcast. We got a ton scheduled between now and Summit time. So join us for those live. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.
Dean Jones' Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Activator, Focus, Woo, Strategic and Relator.