- How does your wellbeing influence your decisions, your habits and your successes?
- How can you charge your wellbeing "battery" and keep it charged, and what role do your strengths play in this?
- How can understanding your individual CliftonStrengths reduce burnout and stress?
When you are thriving in wellbeing, you will show up differently at work. That difference manifests itself in greater confidence, proactivity rather than reactivity, and taking ownership rather than complaining. And having a solid understanding of your top CliftonStrengths can not only move you toward thriving, it can also help you manage stress and avoid burnout. Join Danny Lee, Gallup Senior Global Workplace Consultant and Executive Coach, for an episode that promises to recharge your wellbeing "battery," in Part 4 of our series on wellbeing.
Below is a full transcript of the conversation, including time stamps. Full audio and video are posted above.
If our batteries are charged, the way our talents show up in the world is more at the mature state, where it's more giving and external.Danny Lee, 10:57
When we're achieving things that ... [take] time, habit is more important than actions, because actions are kind of one and done. But habits are the small things that we do over time that [create] great results.Danny Lee, 36:11
Understanding our filters helps us discern versus react to external situations that will ... kind of drive us to a state of stress or high burnout.Danny Lee, 45:15
Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on October 12, 2021.
Jim Collison 0:18
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's a link right above me there on our live page. It'll take you to YouTube. You can sign in with your Google account and join us in the chat room there. If you have questions after the fact, you can send us an email: firstname.lastname@example.org. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app; just search "Gallup Webcasts." And of course, you can subscribe, subscribe to us right below there on YouTube, if you're listening to us there, and get notified whenever we go live. Ryan Wolf is our host today. Ryan is a Physical Wellbeing Lead at Gallup. And Ryan, always a great evening to be with you on Called to Coach. Welcome back!
Meet Our Guest on This Episode
Ryan Wolf 1:05
Yeah, thanks so much. Good to be back here again with you as well, Jim. This is our fourth session and very excited to have Danny Lee here. Danny, welcome. And do you mind just saying, "Hello!" and give us your Top 5?
Danny Lee 1:19
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be back to Called to Coach. I will say, this is -- I, I think I typically talk about my hair. Today's going to be the worst hair day for me on Called to coach. So just get it out, get that out of the way. So my name is Danny Lee. And I've, you know, there are a lot of smart people on our Called to Coach episodes on this particular topic. And today, I'm, I'll kind of bring a perspective from a strengths coach perspective. So I'm not really, I can't claim to be a scientist or a researcher. But I have trained about, a little bit over 3,000, maybe close to 4,000, strengths coaches around the world; engaged with a lot of coaches; and worked in 20 different countries in a coaching sense. So I do coach a lot of people.
Danny Lee 2:10
So I would say, I'll bring some perspective on wellbeing from what I've heard as more of a, in the field, as I'm engaging in a lot of coaching conversation and as a strengths practitioner from the field. I lead -- my Top 5 is, first, Individualization, then Empathy, Connectedness, Harmony and, and Developer.
Ryan Wolf 2:33
Awesome. That's great. So thanks for being here, and we're excited to have you. Just to kind of give everyone a little bit of context, in case this is, in case this might be your first time joining us for our 5-part wellbeing series. We're discussing Wellbeing at Work. It's our book that was released in May, just earlier this summer, written by Jim Harter and Jim Clifton. And so, you know, they, they identified in the book that combining strengths and wellbeing at work is potentially incredibly influential as a solution, as, as we as people-leaders and wellbeing leaders and strengths coaches and even coaches of strengths coaches pursue things like resilience and mental health and net-thriving levels of wellbeing. And I like to bring a lot of, a lot of research -- our best research and our science on the topic.
Gallup's Research on Wellbeing, Engagement, Strengths
Ryan Wolf 3:36
So I've got one, I've got a little nugget to start us off, off here tonight. So in, back in 2018, we conducted a study of more than 6,000 U.S. working adults. And we identified respondents as having either high or low wellbeing, and high or low engagement. And so they, they responded to our Q12 elements, which measures engagement, and Wellbeing Finder questions. And we also asked them if they fully utilize their strengths at work.
Ryan Wolf 4:12
So compared to, compared to those who had high wellbeing and high employee engagement, but low utilization of strengths, those with high well, high wellbeing, high engagement and high utilization of strengths were 50% less likely to be looking for a new job elsewhere in the next 12 months. They were 43% more likely to say that they always adapt well to change. So that's resilience. And they were 100% more likely -- twice as likely -- to say that they agree that there's a leader in their life that makes them enthusiastic about the future.
Ryan Wolf 4:56
So those are some pretty big, pretty big outcomes that drive business and performance in the workplace. Probably the most significant one right now is that group who, who full, full -- the group that fully utilizes their strengths at work; they are 50% less likely to be looking for a job somewhere else. So in this current era of the "Great Resignation" and employees just kind of reevaluating their career pursuits, we have got some, some really good literature and some good research on this topic of kind of blending strengths and wellbeing within strengths cultures.
Ryan Wolf 5:39
So what I'd like to do, Danny, to start is to kind of, to get your viewpoint on wellbeing. So, so, so being so well-versed in CliftonStrengths is really helpful for us. Based upon your experiences that you've had working with strengths coaches and conducting coaching sessions yourself with leaders and with individuals, can you kind of give us your perspective on wellbeing and how wellbeing influences everything from the decisions that we make and the habits that we repeat and the successes that we experience at work
Danny Lee 6:20
Absolutely. Thank you, Ryan. So when I think about wellbeing, so "wellbeing" is a big word, right? A lot of people are using it. It's on the media, and we, we're using that word more frequently nowadays, even in the workplace. Where before, wellbeing was more kind of like your personal stuff, and not a topic commonly appearing in the workplace setting. And that has all changed a lot. But when we think about wellbeing, it's one word, but it's not one thing. So just taking a pause and thinking about that "wellbeing" -- like, what does that really mean? Like being well, so when you're feeling like you're, you are well, and you're doing well, you're being well, that means different things to different people. Just like 1 in 33 million, meeting, the chance of meeting somebody with your same Top 5, and we're all very, very unique.
Charging Your Batteries
Danny Lee 7:17
So when we think about our wellbeing is in a good place, of course, we can dissect those into the 5 elements of wellbeing. But just from a commonsense point of view, when we are doing well, to really simplify, to me it feels like, let's say we have our own batteries. OK, batteries that charges us. And a state of wellbeing, when it's heightened, is when we are fully charged; when our batteries are fully charged. So when our batteries are fully charged, we show up in the workplace very differently.
Danny Lee 7:52
So, for example, when our battery is charged, we tend to respond more to situations in the workplace instead of reacting to them. We tend to take more of a ownership position, rather than being in a more complaining victim mentality. I think when our batteries are charged, we show up more confident than insecure. And when we feel insecure or threatened, then it shows up in different type of behaviors -- in passive-aggressiveness or backstabbing or all those sorts of things, or jealousy, even, in the workplace. When our batteries are charged, and our, we're in a more state of abundance, we tend to be more courageous about being proactive, rather than just being passive in the, in the workplace.
Danny Lee 8:45
So, but when we say our batteries, we all have different batteries. So what, for example, charges Jim's battery might be different from my battery. So Jim leads with high Communication. And for him, when he gets to express himself and tell stories and talk with people and think out loud and exchange ideas, that's an activity that charges his battery. Whereas for somebody like myself, where Communication is a bit low; I'm more introverted, then those activities -- I can do them, but then it does take a little bit from my battery. So I have to find other ways to, to charge my battery. So when you think about people leading with different batteries, we can think about how we can charge those batteries so people can show up, be more proactive, be more of an owner, taking more risk, and being more innovative and strategically respond to situations, versus passively reacting to situations.
Danny Lee 9:48
So let's say somebody let's say, showing up at work where their Learner battery is depleted; they don't feel like they're learning and growing. Or they're showing up at work, where their Achiever battery is depleted or their Belief battery is depleted, where they feel like they're doing work that's not really aligned with their core value. It doesn't fuel them or give them energy. Or even like Connectedness, you know, it's in my Top 5, when that sense of meaning and purpose is, is nonexistent, and we kind of feel like things are kind of disjointed and that Connectedness battery is, is low, then how these talents, how we show up in the workplace, I think has -- going back to the concept of, for those of you who've been around in the strengths world, you'll remember the world, word like "raw" and "mature." So our talent themes, they sometimes show up raw, underdeveloped. Just like in martial arts, there's the white belt level, and then there's the blue belt and the black belt level.
Danny Lee 10:51
And talent expression can be like that too, where sometimes, depending on if our batteries are charged, the way our talents show up in the world is more at the mature state, where it's more giving and external. Whereas and it -- when our batteries are depleted, the way our talents show up is in a more of a raw form, where it shows, not like giving but more like needy. So a talent theme like, let's say, an Activator, if it's charged, it can be very energizing, inspiring the group. If it's not charged, it can show up very, just being very impatient. Or somebody who's leading with, let's say, Arranger, when it's charged, they can be somebody who can be very creative and multitasking and reconfiguring and really adjusting really well to different unexpected circumstances.
Danny Lee 11:47
Whereas when it's depleted, it can show up in a way that's just scattered, just changing things just for the sake of changing, and creating some unhealthy disruptions in the, in the workplace. So in that sense, to summarize, I think, our Top 10 talent, dominant talents have a lot to do with our overall wellbeing, and also how it shows up in our workplace behavior.
Ryan Wolf 12:17
Nice, I like it. So some folks might be familiar with "the balcony and the basement" lesson. Is that pretty, is that pretty similar with, with the batteries? Does that play right into it?
Danny Lee 12:30
So yeah, it's, there's some overlap there. So balcony and the basement is, it's similar. It's a, it's a language that we started to move away from, because it wasn't internationally applicable. But balcony and the basement is where a talent is showing up in a more positive state. And it's really positively appreciated. We called it, it's "the balcony." Whereas the, when it's showing up and misfiring, and it's misunderstood or misexpressed, showing up more as a weakness, then we called it "the basement." And in that context, there's a lot of overlap. So exactly, Ryan, when people's batteries are not charged, then there's a lot more probability, I think, for the, the talents to show up in a way that's more, looks like more of a basement than a, than a balcony.
Jim Collison 13:26
Ryan, we spent some time '18 -- 2018, 2019 -- Al Winseman wrote some great blog posts on gallup.com about helps and hinders. And we've, we've messed around with these phrases a lot. I get a lot of questions on them; I get some folks who've been away a while who come back. Doesn't really matter what we call them. The idea, the, to Danny's point, the idea is, Where's it firing? Or where am I getting charged? Where is it not firing? And where am I being depleted? And, and you can interchange those -- don't get stuck on the topics; dive into the people and say, "Hey, how do we, how do we get to the bottom of this?" Don't, don't worry about the labels; get to the people.
How Strengths Can Mitigate Stress, Worry
Ryan Wolf 14:05
I like how, Danny, you bring, bring up the terminology with, with batteries. Because a lot of times, when people initially think about wellbeing and charging their batteries, they're thinking about eating to charge their batteries; they're good about moving, exercising; and they're thinking about sleeping. So I think it's cool how you bring that analogy of a battery into wellbeing in that kind of intellectual sense that's kind of separate from physical wellbeing, yet interrelated. So I think that's really cool. So I want to get back into a little bit of our research again. So we've been, we've been researching emotions on a regular cadence. And we've noticed that negative emotions have been on the rise. And that's really not a surprise, because things like stress and worry and sadness and anger and loneliness have really been influenced by the pandemic.
Ryan Wolf 15:07
But our research showed that negative emotions were actually on the rise quite a bit prior to the onset of COVID. We know from one of our studies, about 4 years ago, we conducted among more than 2,000 employees in, in Japan. Those who were engaged and had high wellbeing and who worked in a strong strengths culture had just a 1% chance of experiencing high stress. So if you take away those three key ingredients -- engagement and wellbeing and utilization of strengths -- there was a 43% chance that they felt high stress. Could you talk a little bit about how utilizing strengths seems to help mitigate either the symptoms or perhaps the direct root causes of stress?
Danny Lee 16:07
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I like the fact that you use the word like "mitigate." Because when it comes to stress, I think, I don't think there's anything, like there's a thing called "stress-free," where anybody's just completely free from stress. Because stress is also, I mean, we all have it. And --
Ryan Wolf 16:29
It can be good.
Danny Lee 16:29
It's also -- yeah, yeah. And it's also necessary too. And if you think about somebody who's completely stress-free, who does not get stressed at all, I don't want to be around that person. It's kind of like being around a dangerous person. It's like people, like people who just do not fear at all; there's zero fear. It's like they can hurt people and hurt themselves too. So in that sense, I think just stress is all around. And the reason why we are stressed is because of our protection mechanism. We, if we don't, if we don't have it at all, we will be like, it's just like a kid touching a hot stove, like, over and over and over again.
Danny Lee 17:11
So stress is always there. And I think how to mitigate is No. 1, just understanding where is my stress coming from? Because just because, just like we all have different batteries, we also have different stress factors. So we can, even in our day-to-day lives, we experience where a certain situation happens and people react to those differently or respond to them differently. Where some are more, if something happens and then they're just kind of chill. Whereas some get more emotional about it and really get stressed out about it.
Danny Lee 17:51
So even when, for those of you who are strengths coaches, we have this awesome coaching tool called the Theme Insight Cards. And in the Theme Insight Cards, there's this thing, there are statements like, "This is what I need." So all these dominant talent themes, it comes with needs. It also comes with, "This is what I love"; "This is what I hate." So it kind of gets connected with the, like our value judgment too. So knowing our stress kind of factors are critically important because what drives us crazy -- what gives us energy is different. But also what drives us crazy are very, very different, as well.
Danny Lee 18:36
So when we think about somebody who leads with high Responsibility, and somebody misses a deadline, that's very stressful; that's a high-stress situation. Whereas somebody who, I don't know, leads with more Adaptability or Maximizer, is like, "Hey, you know what? You know, that's, a, you know, somebody missed a, more of a guideline." Or somebody with Harmony is, "Oh, you know, that can happen." Whereas Responsibility might say, "Dude, that was a deadline! Somebody can die! Like that's a deadline, and what is wrong with you?" So we can react very differently. And just knowing that, where it's not an objective reality, but our filters come into play in how we interpret and respond to the situation that creates more fear than, than others.
Danny Lee 19:26
So I think one thing to think about is look at our Top 5 or Top 10. And then kind of look at your own work environment and be aware of, What are those times that you really get stressed out about? Because when we can pinpoint those, we can better manage those emotions. Because we know, Oh, I know what's, what's wrong with this situation. Oh, I know exactly why I'm really upset or frustrated right now. It's like you're ill. You go to the doctor. And the doctor says, "Oh, no, you're fine. Nothing came up on the MRI," but you know that something's wrong. And when you don't know the source, it just -- the stress amplifies. Whereas, when you go to the doctor and say, "Oh, here's, here's what's causing the problem." OK. Then we're gonna convert that energy, that stress into solving the problem. And we get less stressed out about that issue.
Danny Lee 20:27
But when we don't know it, so let's say I'm working with Jim, and something about it really stresses me out. And I don't like Jim, and I don't know where it's coming from, then it's about "I hate Jim. Like I'm really stressed out." The, it's about the whole being now; it's amplified. Whereas it's like, "Oh, actually, something about Jim I don't like." Or, "When I can pinpoint it, it's not about the whole being; now, it's very specific, and I can manage around it." So one of the activities that can be very helpful -- and for those of you strengths coaches, you will know this activity, or if you've been around, we, you know, this activity -- the Best of Me.
Danny Lee 21:09
So, kind of thinking about, "You get the best of me when ____." So it's a sentence-completion activity, where you're reviewing, "You get the best of me when ____," and here are the conditions where you get the best of me. "You get the worst of me when ____." Here are the situations where you get the worst of me. And then reviewing, "This is what I need." So for me to thrive, here are some things that, that I, that I need. So when you look at the "You get the worst of me when ____," and "This is what I need," and really analyze, it can really give us a lot of insight on our stress factors. And when we understand what those are specifically, then it enables us to respond to those situations a little bit more, more better. And be less stressed, and prevent us from creating unnecessary, unnecessary stress.
Danny Lee 22:09
So a metaphor -- I'm a man of metaphor. So one metaphor is, Hey, look, I'm a sports car, for example. If I'm a sports car, and I know that I'm built to thrive on a highway, but I'm going to struggle if I'm, I have to drive through the desert of Nevada, or when I have to drive through some rocky terrain, then when I know that, then I can manage that. "Oh, I'm not really built for this situation. This is exactly why I'm frustrated and I'm struggling right now. But I just need to get through this and get myself back on the highway." Versus if I don't know this, and then I'm struggling in the desert and this like cheap little dune buggy like chuckles along and is like, "Man, why am I not like ___? Why am I worse than ___?
Danny Lee 23:02
So then you get into this inferiority or imposter syndrome or get really stressed out -- the fact that you're not like another person -- when, in fact, you're totally fine. It's just the external environment that we have to manage through a little bit. But when we don't know it, we can't pinpoint it, it's harder to manage.
Jim Collison 23:22
Danny, what do you think for coaches -- you know, certainly, a certain amount of stress is great in an environment; we need it, right? An overabundance of stress is also equally detrimental to our success, right? As a coach, how do we help people identify that healthy amount, finding that healthy place? I heard you allude to this idea of maybe, Is it charging your batteries, in that sense? Is it -- are you finding satisfaction in it? Are you finding success? But any tips as we think about -- because I think right now, we're in such uncharted waters for some folks. They may not even know, like, "I'm stressed out, but I don't know why." Like I, so, so any tips you'd give coaches or individuals on kind of thinking through that process?
Danny Lee 24:10
Yeah. One thing I mean, this often comes up in strengths coaching conversations as well. Where let's say somebody doesn't have, like Discipline is low, or Responsibility is low. Or they see themselves like procrastinating or, you know, things like that. It's, I think it's insightful to understand from the top, What are my blind spots? And how, what are some external stress factors that can help me mitigate that? We can also look at what's on the bottom and see if, if the lack of expression on the bottom talents, is that the one that creates my procrastination or the barrier? Then we can actually channel that energy or use it more productively.
Danny Lee 25:03
So, for example, this is live and public; I'm going to tell everybody. I'm, something about me, I'm a procrastinator. I'm like, so, Achiever is not very high; I have high Adaptability; I have high Maximizer. And along with that, having Connectedness, there's a lot of things that I'm very selective about what I, what I do. And so one thing I know is, pressure is good for me. Pressure is good for me. Having that deadline, having that pressure, it will crank that -- it's like, the Maximizers, there's always things in motion, but there's no action; there's nothing being produced. But when that pressure comes to place, I'm actually embracing it. Or even I will, when I'm partnering with folks, I will say, "Hey, I need pressure. So do not feel sorry about pressuring me, because that actually helps me."
Danny Lee 25:59
So when I understand that, it becomes like, it's almost like I'm using what can feel like a negative force, but actually to my advantage. So think about when you look at your Top 10 or Bottom 10, what are those healthy, stressful factors -- it's not natural for us. We don't enjoy it intentionally. But every once in a while, it's important to have that in place. So I would even say it's kind of like oil change. Like oil change is something that we don't have to do all day. We don't have to do it all the time. But if we don't do it at all, it can be detrimental to our, our vehicle. So identifying, What are those kind of oil changes that I need in my life? And how do I put those intentionally artificially, so that it actually enables me, rather than becoming a barrier for for myself?
"You Get the Best/Worst of Me" Exercise
Ryan Wolf 27:00
I like it. I want to come back also to the "You get the best of me" and "You get the worst of me" exercise. So is that something -- who's that for, and what's a good frequency to, to conduct that exercise? Is it for me and my manager? Is it for me and my colleagues? Me and my spouse? Where's the best setting for it?
Danny Lee 27:23
Good question! I would broadly say, anywhere there is a relationship, that tool can be very powerful. So if you use it in a family setting, that's powerful. If you use it in partnerships, that's powerful. If you use it with communicating with your team members, that's great. If you use it for, with communicating with your manager, that's, that's even better. Because part of this is letting yourself known to people -- that "best of us" is like a, it's like a user manual for, for people. Because we're all very complex. All of you, you know, watching this webcast, you're a complex human being. Jim, you're complex; Ryan, you're complex; I'm complex.
Danny Lee 28:10
So expecting us to, I mean, even simple, like, electronics, they come with user manuals, but a complex human being, it does not. So we just assume that we're mind readers, and we know how to figure out, you know, how to use stuff. It's just like, you know, sending us to, like, I don't know, like NASA and giving us this really complicated, you know, I don't know, computer and just expecting us to use it right away. So this can really operate as a user manual, identifying, you know, what I need when I'm really thriving -- You get the best of me when ____; worst of me when ___. This is what I need, you know. You can count on me too. So any relationship exists, it can be powerful.
Danny Lee 29:00
Now, it can be also, you can do it once in a while, like periodically updating it and sharing. It can also be something short-term too, even when you are working on a 3-month project with team members, just start the project with "You get the best of me when ___" -- like the "Best of Us" activity. Now going a little bit further, in terms of going back to that stress management and charging our batteries, there's another version that I can think of is -- so there's the, "You get the best of me when___ and etc.; the best of us. But then you can actually change those statements to like more of a self-reflective version of, "I get the best of me when____. I get the worst of me when____." So think about a situation where it's almost like you're looking back and, "Aw, man, why did I say that? Like why did I respond today in that way? Man, that was like ..."
Danny Lee 30:02
So think about a situation where like, "Oh, I was really best." So almost like I'm a third party observing myself, like, "I get the best of me when ____." So then you think about, "I guess the best of me when, when I'm really relaxed," or "I'm well-rested," or "when I'm well-nourished," or "when I jogged this morning, or ..." So oftentimes, you know, I'll find myself, you know, if it's an important course or a speech, then I know that I get the best of me when? When I accomplish something meaningful before that particular event, almost like a victory experience. So then I'll go out, like jog or do, like, 100 push-ups or do something meaningful that I feel good about myself. And that can also be an indicator -- it can also be a tool for myself too, and not just communicating with others.
Talking About Employee Wellbeing in the Workplace
Ryan Wolf 30:59
Yeah, it's, it's, it's very prescriptive, for, for wellbeing. I like it. You know, for those of us who are coaching others, or managing others and leading others, and kind of focused primarily on workplace outcomes and career elements of wellbeing, are there any strategies you could share for how a leader can also integrate other elements of wellbeing into the conversation to make it just a little more wholesome? So elements like financial, physical, social, community?
Danny Lee 31:33
Yeah, absolutely. I think this topic just needs to be a little bit more comfortable for leaders and managers to talk about because before it felt like, Oh, career wellbeing -- that's a safe topic; we can talk about that at work. But when it comes to, like, financial wellbeing, then it's like, Hmm, like, I don't want to talk about this easily, because it's, because it's sensitive. And then, you know, they might ask for a raise, and I, you know, I can't give them a raise. So like, I'm gonna stay away from that. Or, you know, even like physical wellbeing, you know, you can't just like, "Hey, Jim, you know, why don't you just work out? Why don't you lose some ... ?" I mean, that's, we're afraid to have those conversations.
Danny Lee 32:15
So I think, but now things are changing, where work is not just about the work, and work is more about the whole being. And even our research shows that the younger generation, they don't see the workplace as, This is just my job, to get paid. The work is, it's kind of like my life; it's my identity. So what I do at work kind of defines who I am. And that's why people are paying more attention to purpose and meaning of, of what they're doing.
Danny Lee 32:47
So in that sense, I think what leaders can do is -- I think the easiest thing the leaders can do is, if you're not comfortable having these conversations just yet, just start role modeling. Start role modeling, working on your own personal, like, wellbeing -- physical wellbeing, and start just talking about it, your own self, like what are your, what are the things that you are working on to take care of your physical wellbeing or social wellbeing or community wellbeing? And even like financial wellbeing.
Danny Lee 33:20
Another thing is, create a space where people can share, just talk about it. I mean, I was recently in Dubai. In Dubai, there's a lot of overseas workers from the Philippines. And, you know, we're talking about how they're saving money and saving funds, and then how they're buying like houses back home and investing it so that later on, they have a place that they can retire. And it's just a very common topic. So what that generates is, like, because we don't know what we don't know, right? And as it becomes more of a common topic, people are like, Oh, you know what? That's a good idea. I should do something about my, you know, retirement. I should do something about my physical wellbeing or financial wellbeing.
Danny Lee 34:08
So creating a space where people, it's not like you shall, you need to do this. It's more like just creating a space where people can talk a lot about what they are doing outside of work, and what are they doing and best practices that they've -- and it's just another data point, and making it more knowledgeable. At a more organizational level, similar things of what we are doing at Gallup -- and Ronny Miller does a great job in initiating those -- is, you know, making more available those programs and educational programs, such as Dave Ramsey's, you know, programs and just helping employees be more financially aware. And you know, there's also this thing called like FQ, like financial ... like there's IQ and the EQ and then there's also the financial side of raising the awareness and providing, like, training and education and free sessions that people can work on and educate, educate themselves.
Danny Lee 35:14
One of the things for those of you who attended the Gallup Global Strengths Coach program, on the fourth day is actually conducting a wellbeing coaching conversation. So the coaching in itself is just, looking at the 5 elements of wellbeing, have the person pick one of the wellbeing that they're working on. And then just asking -- it's not recommendation; it's not solution; it's not, you know, arm-twisting them to do anything -- but have them really think through and explore their future state where they want to be; how they see in their current state; and then think about designing some actions or designing some habits.
Danny Lee 35:58
Because when it comes to wellbeing, I don't think any of these 5 elements of wellbeing is achievable overnight, or in a couple of weeks. It's, it takes time. And when we're achieving things that are, that takes time, habit is more important than actions, because actions are like kind of one and done. But habits are the small things that we do over time that creates great results. So it's kind of like if I eat a scoop of natural honey today, ain't gonna do much. But if I have the habit of eating one spoon of natural honey every day over 5 years, that's going to bring miracles.
Danny Lee 36:41
So what are those habits, repeatable habits that folks need to, they want to put in place? Because when it comes to habits and these wellbeing topics, it's very easy for folks to procrastinate, or Oh, I'll worry about that later because the -- this project deadline is coming. So giving them that space to have that conversation, help them press that Pause button, helps a lot. And then at some point, when leaders and managers do get comfortable, they can actually have one-on-one coaching conversations about the other 4 elements of wellbeing, when it comes more appropriate and the trust and relationship is, is built.
Jim Collison 37:24
Danny, I think this topic, as we think about these 5 elements, wellbeing in the workplace, is particularly we need coaches around the world to environmentally adapt to this to what's going on culturally in those areas. I mean, certainly we have some thoughts; we're all -- we're all here in the United States; we're all influenced by those elements, those cultural elements that live here. But certainly the, the ideas, the practices of wellbeing are different around the world, certainly, right, as we, we go in.
Jim Collison 37:56
And I think this is where, you know, we have almost, we have 11,000 and some change Certified Coaches around the world; about, I'm gonna say about 50,000 in just Strengths Champions. I think there's a real opportunity to take these practices, right. You, you've traveled around the world. Take these wellbeing concepts and really make them cultural to the environment in which they're in right there. So I hope people don't hear us saying as things like -- and this happens all the time; I happen to be from the United States, and I say things like I live here. I think oftentimes, we need to take those and turn them into, What works in the culture you're in? What would work in the culture you're trying to influence? Anything else, Danny, that you'd add to that?
Danny Lee 38:36
Yeah, I would completely agree with that. And even just at the individual level, again, how we charge our batteries are very, very different. So even in a coaching conversation, this is old -- I mean, this is in the old color scheme, but I still have this like really close by. And this is like, Guys, this is my battery. So the ones on the top represent my battery. And when I look at this, I'm thinking about, How does this connect with the time when I was really struggling? Which batteries were depleted? When I was thriving, which batteries were really charged? And how can I intentionally keep these batteries charged?
Danny Lee 39:17
And similar to that, we're looking at the 5 elements of wellbeing, and thinking different ways of how I can charge these, these batteries. And even, like, thinking about order, like which of these 5 elements are, if I were to force rank them in order, which one's more important? Which one gets more attention? And these priorities can change over time, as well. Like community wellbeing, when I was traveling a lot, it didn't mean a lot because I, I wasn't physically here a lot. So as long as my kids and family was safe, that was, that was good. But pandemic hits, and now like having jogging trail and being able to work out and all of that, it raised in terms of importance.
Ryan Wolf 40:05
Nice. I like how you talk about how it's important to just leave it open for, for interpretation, asking, you know, which, which of these elements is most important to you? That's a really broad question that can start a conversation that doesn't feel like, "I'm trying to give you some advice here that you really need." It's open. And then, and then following that up with, "OK, which strengths do you think you can point towards that element of wellbeing that's, that's most important for you right now?" So I like your thoughts there.
Managing Burnout With Your CliftonStrengths
Ryan Wolf 40:35
I want to talk a little bit about, about burnout. Obviously, huge topic of conversation, as it relates to everyday life in the U.S. and wellbeing at work. And we found that, though, even prior to the pandemic, 3 out of 4 employees said that they experienced burnout from work at least sometimes. So it's been prevalent for a while. If we couple that with some research that we conducted that found that some higher correlation of stress with, with some particular CliftonStrengths elements -- so things like Adaptability, Command, Empathy, Belief. Can you kind of give us your thoughts on how to, you know, deal with stress and burnout if we're potentially more naturally prone to experience that or to feel or to feel burned out?
Danny Lee 41:30
Yeah, I think it kind of aligns with just understanding our stress factors. What are the situations that really stresses us, us out. And even, I mean, you mentioned here like Adaptability, Command and, you know, Empathy and Belief. And, you know, we all have our kind of inner voices, or inner judges, or in certain coaching disciplines, they'll call them like inner saboteurs. And being aware of those is, I think, really important, and how it's also connected with our dominant talents, as well.
Danny Lee 42:11
So, for example, maybe Command in situations can show up as being very controlling. Or they feel like there's lack of control, and then, and it's showing up in a way that's very stressful for them. Because burnout itself is, I mean, there's the workload, but it's not always about the workload. But it's more like how I feel about the workload. And even if the workload is really overwhelming, if I feel like those work are meaningful, and they're adding value to somebody or it's meaningful to me, then even if it's a lot of workload, subjectively how I feel about that is less burning me out. Whereas if I feel like I'm doing a lot of work that's just a whole lot of nothing and it's, we're just, I don't know, being compliant to things that at the end of the day really doesn't matter, and we're checking things off the list. And then it can easily, even if reality is you're doing less work than the other, other person, can feel a lot more burned, burned out.
Danny Lee 43:18
So even like, like myself, I lead with high Empathy. And when my Empathy battery is not charged, and when I'm stressed out, this, the way this can show up is in a very weak form of becoming like more of a people pleaser. Or my Harmony can show up in a way that it's more like a conflict avoider. And, you know, one of the things that I hear a lot when coaching is, People who lead with high Responsibility, boy, it's so hard to say "No." So hard to say "No." So they end up taking like all these ownership on things and, but then they get, they lead themselves to burnout because they, they don't sometimes have the energy, almost have the energy to press that Pause button and evaluate. Is this a "Yes"? Or is this a "No?"
Danny Lee 44:17
And it, it kind of reminds me of what Dean Jones said -- my colleague, Dean Jones, said in one of his Called to Coach series about our dominant talents being a filter. And he talks about his his dog and how his dog chases a rabbit. So when his dog sees a rabbit, there is no, like, decision. It's not a choice. The dog has no choice but to chase the rabbit. And it's not thinking about like, "Why am I chasing the rabbit? What am I gonna do after I catch the rabbit?" None of that, just like, and when we are stressed out, when we are weak, our dominant talents can show up that way too, where we're just saying "Yes," because there's a, there's a rabbit or there's this request or ask, without really thinking about that, "Should I take this?" Because there's a lot of things around us where just because we can do it doesn't mean we, we should.
Danny Lee 45:14
And so understanding our filters helps us discern versus react to external situations that will end, kind of drive us to a state of like stress or high burnout. So that kind of goes back to the importance of keeping our batteries charged. And when we think about, you know, "Then Danny, what are ways to charge our batteries?" That's like, that's why we have the next episode with Jaclynn, Dr. Jaclynn Robinson, coming out and showing us how we can charge our batteries.
Danny Lee 45:57
So that's a little cliffhanger for you. Like, come back for the next episode! But, you know, even things like I was talking with, actually, a course participant who said, "You know, Danny, I was really, like, physically tired after the full-day course. And I just felt like I needed to take a nap. But instead" -- and she was somebody who leads with Woo -- said, "Instead, I started talking with my friends about how the course was great and all the experience." And that activity was so energizing for her, she said that it was better than taking a nap. Her -- she was physically charged.
Danny Lee 46:43
We can also feel like, for some people, like activities that charges my Connectedness battery may not necessarily charge other people's battery. One of the coaches that I know from Korea, she mentioned that she was having a conversation with her, with her client, and the client said, "You know what I need to, I need to rest; I'm really physically tired. And so on the weekend, I'm not gonna do anything. I'm just gonna just do nothing." And then later on, she checked back and say, "Hey, how did that go? How did that work out for you? Do you feel more charged?" And, and the client says -- who tends to be an Achiever -- client says, "No. I felt worthless. I felt like a loser not doing anything. And instead of charging my battery, it was, it was really draining."
Danny Lee 47:34
So there's all different ways that we can -- when we are aware -- intentional actions that we can take to manage our stress. Again, we can't eliminate it entirely. But we can choose actions, how we can respond to them.
Ryan Wolf 47:51
Nice. I like it. Danny, that was, that was my last question I had for you. But I just want to give you opportunity to, you know, to close us here you talked about, you know, just the diversity in how we interpret wellbeing and how we can integrate our strengths into those 5 elements. So any last thoughts as we, as we head off?
Danny Lee 48:18
Well, one thing I would share is that wellbeing is something, again, it's not something that happens overnight. We can't just create a quick to-do list and then expect results like next week. So it, it does take consistency. So frequency matters. The habits we build towards these 5 elements, it matters. So when it comes to consistency, like what's sustainable, I almost feel like it has to, it has to align with how we're wired. We cannot grit through that long journey of repeating things that are not natural for us.
Danny Lee 49:00
I'll share a little bit of a personal example where I share with a lot of strengths coaches out there. There was a time where I was like massively overweight and really struggling with health, with a lot of really good, super, like first-class excuses why I couldn't work out. But I'm somebody who Achiever is not very high; it's on the, it's on the bottom. And when I tried to be an Achiever version of working out, it was very short-lived. I'll gain a little bit, but then, because it's not natural of how I was wired, I just bounce right back up. So just a little bit of a, just a series of yo-yo and feeling bad about myself. But then when I applied something that aligned with my talent, which, in my case, it was Connectedness, then because it was charging my Connectedness battery, it was sustainable.
Danny Lee 49:57
So it only took me about, like, 8, 9 years of all these trial-and-error and excuses, and X, Y and Z; it only took me 4 months, 4 months to lose about 25 to 30 pounds. And because it was aligned with how I was wired, now it's sustainable. So that was like 2014. And it's not that I'm, I'm like a bodybuilder or like a K-pop star or anything, but I'm still in shape. I'm still in shape, and my cholesterols are down, and I kind of feel good. And I still can do things that I was not able to do even in my, in my 20s. So this is not just a personality report. This does have a lot of good insights and information and a roadmap to finding how we can individualize our wellbeing strategies and thrive.
Jim Collison 50:55
I was wondering how long it'd be before I got a K-pop reference on Called to Coach, and it took, it only took 9 years. But --
Danny Lee 51:04
There it is!
Jim Collison 51:05
Ryan, let me throw that same question to you. You come, you know, your Top 5, you got a lot of Focus in what you do. As you talk about recharging -- for someone who has high Discipline, high Focus, how do you recharge?
Ryan Wolf 51:21
Yeah, for me individually, I've got Discipline and, Discipline and Achiever 1 and 2. So really, really differently than Danny. And that's the beauty of it, is that it can still be done. There's always struggles, but, but for me, it's, it's planning things out, knowing what to expect, making sure there's time in my calendar. And getting it done reinforces that it'll get done again next time it needs to happen -- in terms of everything, from eating to getting good sleep and to exercising. So that's just the physical element. And then it can be applied and cascaded throughout the other 4. So that's just a little snapshot.
Jim Collison 52:07
Well, and that has played into, you know, our relationship. It's no secret -- we've talked about this before; you've been my trainer for a lot of years. And the, I learned early that consistency at which I showed up would charge you up. Like, it was when I began to sense that, like, I need to be there. If I'm going to, if I'm going to do this thing, it's important to him that I continue, and either I'm in or I'm out.
Jim Collison 52:31
Like, and so, in our relationship, it was one of those kinds of things that kept me coming, because I knew that would charge you. And we never really had that conversation. But it was, it was one of those kinds of things that I just, I -- and I wanted to; it was good for me. Like the things that we had, I always wanted to have a million things going on at once, which is what charges me up on the weekends. I want to have a whole bunch of things happening. That's, I get, I get recharged when I do that. If I, if I'm sitting around too long, I'm like, What can I break? So that I can start fixing it, right. And it's not Restorative, it's just Arranger wanting to do all kinds of things at the same time. Danny, I am too a procrastinator, and I just use that Activator to trick myself. Like, OK, in a second, when I'm not looking, I'm just gonna start doing it. And it's the dumbest thing ever. Like, you think, dude, like you're an adult; you could just do the thing! No, I actually kind of need to trick myself into it. Once I get going, I am fine. Right.
Jim Collison 53:31
But I, the budget was a couple weeks, month or two behind here. And I was stressing about it. And one night I just came down here and I kind of tricked myself into starting it. And I got it done in about half an hour. And I felt so much better. And it, to your point about like doing push-ups before you get in there. That budget, when I completed it, I felt good. Like, I got it done. I could do anything! I got that done; I could do anything. And so I love that tip that you gave about get something -- when you're about to go into a big event, or when you're about to do something, get a win, get an early win ahead of it. So you feel good. Is that kind of what you meant, when you were, when you were saying that is get a win ahead of it?
Danny Lee 54:14
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, even Don Clifton said something -- it's probably not a direct quote, but -- something as, you know, "We're never so strong as when we have our strengths in mind." So when we have more of our victories or winning experience in our head, we show up more confident and be better.
Jim Collison 54:36
Well, tonight is one of those examples. Lots of great, lots of great comments in the chat room. They've found this very, very helpful. Danny, this, I've gotten very few questions. This may be one of the few Called to Coaches you've answered all the questions before they are even asked. So, appreciate that. Right. Ryan, take a second and thank Danny for our time.
Ryan Wolf 54:56
You bet. Yeah. Thanks, Danny, so much for joining us. I know there's tons of great, actionable advice that that you gave, that will certainly be rewinding and replaying in the weeks and months and years to come. So thank you very much for sharing them with us here on this platform tonight.
Danny Lee 55:18
Thank you. It was a pleasure. And it was fun. Thank you for inviting me.
Jim Collison 55:21
Danny, always good to have you. These are some of my favorite. And I appreciate you coming out. You, you two hang tight for me one second. With that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we have available now in Gallup Access. A lot of what we talked about today is available in Access. It's also available on gallup.com. I put the links to it in the chat room, if you want to find some of those articles that Ryan referenced. Head out to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. You can log in there. Danny was showing his All 34 report -- page 21, specifically, of his All 34 report. If you haven't unlocked the 34, you can do that as well -- get access to it on your Strengths Dashboard. Again, that's gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. If you need coaching, master coaching, or you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach -- both these guys are -- you can do that as well. Give us, contact us: email@example.com. Danny mentioned that Jaclynn's joining Ryan and I on the next one of these that will actually launch an entire podcast series. So we're super excited about that. The problem was, I didn't get my job done and got it posted today. I was supposed to, and it just didn't happen. So I'll be posting it tomorrow. You can find it: gallup.eventbrite.com. That's where we post everything. That will be out and available for you to get signed up for. We'll, I'll be advertising that through all the social platforms as well. But speaking of social platforms, if you want to follow us, just search "CliftonStrengths," and you can follow us anywhere. We want to thank you for joining us. If you found it helpful, why don't you share it? That would be, that would mean a lot to us, if you would just take this -- especially this one, just share it out, whether it's the live or the recorded version. We'd love to have you share it with those that you work with or your family, whoever. Get that shared. We want to thank you, for those who joined us live, we want to thank you for joining us tonight. Have a good rest of your day, evening, morning -- whatever time zone you're in. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.
Ryan Wolf's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Discipline, Achiever, Futuristic, Activator and Harmony.
Danny Lee's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Individualization, Empathy, Connectedness, Harmony and Developer.