- What is a team Trust Bank, and how do you make deposits and withdrawals?
- What are the characteristics of an unstoppable team, and what does it take to build one?
- How can you evaluate and increase your coaching effectiveness as you seek to help teams win?
Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 10, Episode 6.
Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.
"My goal is that all my teams run like a pack of wolves -- corporate and sports. ... The strength of the wolf is the pack; the strength of the pack is the wolf. We need both." So says author and Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach Maureen Monte about the unity that successful teams require. Building such teams is not easy. It compels coaches to know themselves and their "Why"; to know their craft and be good at what they do; and to have a firm grasp on life lessons that include how to foster team trust. Maureen brings years of coaching experience to this topic; join her and Jim Collison for a realistic discussion that will enlighten you as you move forward on your coaching journey.
Know your craft, via practice. Be good at what you do. Your strengths knowledge ... is ... your ticket to the game. But what else do you bring to the table?Maureen Monte, 12:15
I am paid to get to the root of hard problems for clients. That is why they are paying me. The tip of the iceberg is not where the gold is; the gold is deeper than that.Maureen Monte, 17:09
If you are 100% responsible for what your team does, and your team ... understands that everybody is 100% responsible for what they do, that is really empowering.Maureen Monte, 13:44
Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on January 26, 2022.
Jim Collison 0:19
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, we'd love to have you join us in our chat room; link right above me there on our live page. Sign in with your Google account. Join us in chat; you can ask your questions live. If you're listening after the fact on a podcast or maybe on YouTube, you can send us your questions: email@example.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app, so you never miss an episode. And you can subscribe right there on YouTube, bottom right-hand corner there, hit Subscribe so you never miss an episode.
Meet Our Guest on This Episode
Jim Collison 0:57
Maureen Monte is my guest today. She focuses on highly motivated corporate and sports teams. She's a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, has degrees in both engineering and leadership. She is the author of the book Destination Unstoppable, which, it's, Maureen, that's been out a couple of years now. Right? We did a whole podcast on that. Congratulations. And that's -- we're going to talk some more about that moving forward. But I'm a little excited, and maybe we'll hint at this towards the end, a soon-to-be-released book -- The Win Like a Girl® Project -- which I'm particularly interested in. So let's save that as we get to the end. Maureen, thanks for coming out today. Welcome to Called to Coach!
Maureen Monte 1:34
Thank you, Jim. Glad to be here!
Jim Collison 1:37
So great to have you. It's like old friends. We've been doing this together for a very long time and have spent a lot of time together and, and during the series, I didn't start it as a series. I joke sometimes, I just take what the universe gives me. And all of a sudden, I started booking coaches for Called to Coach that had all this experience. And so you kind of, you're No. 2; Brent was on -- a couple weeks ago, Brent O'Bannon was with us; you're coming on. We've got Charlotte Blair lined up in a couple of weeks. So starting to work through some coaches with some experience. Let's talk about your experience. But let's start with your Top 5. And what I'm kind of interested is as we think about your coaching through the lens of your Top 5, so, so talk a little bit about that.
Maureen Monte 2:19
Yeah, sure. Just real quick before I do, my sister Blanca Garcia is on the, on this, and she's my sister from Mexico -- even though we're not formal sisters, but she was my instructor for certification along with Curt Liesveld, our beloved Curt. So it's, now the pressures on for me to do a good job. So
Jim Collison 2:39
It is indeed.
Maureen Monte 2:40
I'm thrilled she's here. So I just wanna say, "Thank you." So my Top 5: Strategic, right, so that helps me plot where we're going or connect dots; Ideation, got some ... Ideation. And that's Ideation. So I'm an idea machine. Not all ideas are good ideas, but at the time, I think they are. And then Learner, which, of course I love to learn new things and switch careers frequently. And Achiever. That's a real problem, right? Don't manage that well in any aspect of my life. And Individualization, which I think helps me both appreciate people and their natural talents, and customize solutions to the client, maybe to a point of being too customized, but it works for me.
Jim Collison 3:26
No, I, listen, a lot, I, listen, I know, sometimes we play the humble card, and we say those kinds of things. But all of those themes really drive you to success, right? You really find the -- those, that Individualization helps people feel like you care about them specifically. And that matters.
Maureen Monte 3:45
And I do.
Jim Collison 3:47
Yeah, and you do. So I do appreciate that. But I think it's way more powerful than you give yourself, give yourself credit for. Can you give us an update? Just really quick, give us an update? I mean, what has, you wrote this book Destination Unstoppable, and it's, it has really, it kind of became an operating system for you in a lot of ways. Can you talk a little bit about some of those successes or some of those high points that have come out of that work that you've done with Destination Unstoppable?
Maureen Monte 4:15
Yeah. And you used the word "system" -- and that is what it is. It is a system, right? If you follow this system, your team will, if it's, team starts here and you end here, your team will be better off. Right? Without exception. Now, not all people make the journey at the same speed. But without exception, your team will be better off. And one of the things that I get feedback from sports coaches about it -- and while it is a sports story, it's a team success story. I do the same thing with all my teams. The, what I, what they tell me is they like that it's a system, right? So one of the, and so they, if they become strengths knowledgeable through my work with them, and then they do it with, with, on their own, which I'm perfectly happy with. But they tell me then that that, you know, that enables them to do it.
Maureen Monte 5:28
The Win Like a Girl project -- and I'm jumping ahead just a little bit -- but I will say up front that it's not a book about the StrengthsFinder. One of the challenges that coaches told me and corporate people told me is, if they didn't know -- with Destination Unstoppable, if they didn't know the StrengthsFinder language, it made it harder to appreciate. So Win Like a Girl is not going to be like, Oh, here's how many had Restorative; here's how many had Woo, here's how -- it's going to be what they had, to a degree, a comparison between male and female; 505 athletes on both sides. So I've now worked with 1500 athletes and coaches. And so, but I'll share, you know, what the advantage for the male athlete looks like and what the advantage for the female looks like, and what they both have in common -- but using regular language, right? And it again is a system; it just had, I had to adapt for the female athlete teams and the female athletes, they have a different set of problems. And that, and I'll, I'll speak more about that in a moment, if you want.
Maureen Monte 5:54
But overall, it's the, it's helping individuals and teams reach their full potential. There will be a Destination Unstoppable 2 about last year's Cranbrook hockey team, which was the best team I've ever worked with -- ever worked with. And best team for me isn't just that they won, though it's nice they did. But they won with less talent, and they won through unification, love of one another, hard work, survival through COVID. They did things that, if I could get all teams to do, they would, they would be better off as well. So I'll write about that someday. They weren't very big. They're my size. And so --
Jim Collison 6:30
Yeah, that's great. That's a great, it's, it harks back to the, you know, the 1980 Olympic hockey game and the U.S. --
Maureen Monte 6:38
Right! It's very much that!
Jim Collison 6:39
-- versus the Soviet Union, right. And, and anything, you know, you think that and so, great story. When does the Win Like a Girl Project stuff come out?
Maureen Monte 6:47
It's in editorial review right now with coaches, sports coaches, right. And, but what I'm thrilled about -- and I'm going to jump ahead, because this is of course --
Jim Collison 6:58
Yeah, we're talking about it; let's just do it.
The Win Like a Girl® Project
Maureen Monte 7:00
So what I'm thrilled about is, as the coaches are reading it, so at the core of Win Like a Girl is a fear management process. And what I found so astonishing was how fearful female athletes were compared to male athletes. And then you add to that social media, the fact that parents don't prepare the child for the road; they prepare the road for the child. They never face an obstacle, hopefully. And that's what parents hope for. And I totally disagree with that, right. But, and then COVID, and then school closings. So it's just been a fascinating, not just the comparison between the strengths of the two, male and female athletes, but then the journey for success for a female athlete is vastly different from, from male. So at the core of it is a fear management process.
Maureen Monte 7:51
But as, the funny thing is, female coaches suffer from some of the same, some of the same, some of the same challenges. So here's, one of the coaches emailed me today, yesterday -- this morning. And she's reading it, right. And so she said, "After reading Chapter 7," she said, "you would have been so proud of me today, after reading Chapter 7" -- which I can't even remember which chapter that is -- "it gave me confidence into today's small altercation" (altercations are good; that means you're standing up for yourself) "with the men's baseball coach and our strength conditioning coach. They were told they couldn't -- ." So, and she said, "I said to myself, 'No way! I read Chapter 7; I will not let this stop me.'" And she went right at him, right. And a couple of things: The team sees it. Now we see a female coach standing strong.
Maureen Monte 8:44
The goal of Win Like a Girl is it's a confidence encouragement development program so that they become champions at the game of life. Because there's always going to be a jerk you work for; somebody is going to do something stupid on social media; you'll be followed by someone around a store. There's any number of things you need to do to take good care yourself. So it's about that steel spine thing that I'm trying to build, and to play like a pack of wolves, which is what I want them to do. So but, she said, anyhow, that's what I get this morning. Right? So she, in the past, she would have deferred. And that's, we -- No, no, no, no. I said to you yesterday, as we were talking about the prepping for this, and I'd been to a Gallup Summit where, is it Johnny Taylor, head of the HR organization?
Jim Collison 9:29
Maureen Monte 9:29
Jim Collison 9:30
Maureen Monte 9:30
And when he said when I was in, in Nebraska, in Omaha, he said, "If you want a seat at the table, you have to speak up." And that is critical. And that's what this coach did. And through my work with teaching courses at Cornell's Leadership and Development Program for tech and engineering executives, the female executives were doing the same thing. They would sit at the table and be afraid to raise their hand and express their view because they were worried about the other, what the guys were going to think. You're a vice president. You are paid to make decisions, you are paid to speak up, and you're paid to lead your team. So let's figure out how we do that. Right. But so it's fascinating to me that in my work with STEM, I've seen some of the similar thing.
Basic Assumptions About Coaching
Jim Collison 10:15
Yeah, and STEM, we won't spend too much more time on this, but STEM is with, with COVID, the, all the work we did -- I do a lot of work here in the city of Omaha in STEM, STEM education, opportunities around that really went backwards again. So we're gonna have to kinda get, as we get through this, get back after. And I think there's some opportunities there. We wanted to spend a little -- Maureen, I think that's a great intro to you, by the way. I think everyone's just heard, everyone just, no, this is great, because everyone just heard your passions, what you stand for, what you're about, and, and kind of what you're doing. So I think that was a great, I think that was a great introduction. We've got a couple lessons learned. And I think you, you know, I kind of asked you to speak to our Certified Coaching community, for coaches who are just certified, newly certified, just went through the training to those that have been around, you know, a while, right, so some lessons learned for us. There's some basic assumptions. So you've got, why don't, why don't you lay those out first, and then we'll go through these lessons.
Maureen Monte 11:15
Basic assumptions. So I'm assuming, to me, for the things I'm going to speak about after the, this is the foundation, right? No. 1 is that you know yourself -- "To thine own self be true," right. And you know your "Why," and you're extremely clear about it -- both with yourself and your, so knowing your strengths and all, but not knowing but also doing, right, using them in your work. And you're clear about that and communicate, communicating it to your clients. And I use, one of the things I use is I have on my website a mission, a vision, mission and purpose statement. And that's my North Star. If what I'm doing does not fall under those things, then I shouldn't be doing it. Right. So I recommend you, you, you craft those, and they're an asset to share with clients as well. Right. But it's got to be you. Mine isn't yours. So build one that's for you. It's on my About Me page on my website: maureenmonte.com.
Maureen Monte 12:12
2) Know your, know your craft, via practice, right? Be good at what you do. And it isn't just your strengths knowledge, which I think we've all got good stuff there. And that is, that's the, that's your ticket to the game. But what else do you bring to the table? So my background in engineering, my background in leadership, entrepreneurship, I taught for Cornell, I work with University of Michigan's entrepreneurial program. Those are all things I have done, because I am part of that. But I don't do all things, right. So, but the other thing I bring, and I've got a little -- I always have to have show-and-tell. I highly recommend people do this, because I think it's helpful to see. So this is -- which you will not be able to read -- but this is, out of The Wall Street Journal, the, the top-selling books -- fiction, nonfiction and business hardcover. And in the business hardcover, of course, we always see StrengthsFinder 2.0, which is why I continue to call it "StrengthsFinder," so I know that you'll forgive me for my faux pas, but I will continue to do it till I die.
Jim Collison 13:17
I'll cut that part out.
Maureen Monte 13:19
I don't blame you.
Jim Collison 13:21
Or I'll just dub over CliftonStrengths.
Maureen Monte 13:24
In your own voice.
Jim Collison 13:25
Maureen Monte 13:27
But you find atomic habits. So imagine laying, layering StrengthsFinder on the other things, right, atomic habits. The one I use a lot lately is Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin, two Navy SEALs. And let me tell you, every leader should read Extreme Ownership. Because if you are 100% responsible for what your team does, and your team is, understands that everybody is 100% responsible for what they do, that is really empowering. Now it's hard, and it can be hard to get buy-in. But I did that with a high school hockey team this year. They read Extreme Ownership as a team book study. When the season starts, they're very good. And they only win 1 game and they lose 4. And then we meet. Now mind you, they studied Extreme Ownership. And I give people prework; I give all my clients prework. And it's a test: Do you have enough commitment to the team to do the prework? It's also useful information that they get when they do it.
Maureen Monte 14:26
And it became clear in this workshop, Oh, we want to win the state championship and we work hard and we blah, blah, blah. And then when we talked about the prework, they hadn't done it. So the coach came to me, said, "This is so typical of these guys. They say it but they don't do it." And so I said, "All right, let's have a little" -- once he told me that, I said, "OK, just be honest with me. Raise your hand if you actually did the prework. Three, three young men. So, I said, "Well, maybe only three of you are showing up for lifting weights or are preparing for a great game, or, or, or -- maybe. Is that why you've lost four games? So I said, "Listen. Part of extreme ownership is me owning my thing. I didn't check to see if you did the prework before we started. That's my fault. It's your fault you didn't do the prework. We both failed, and now the mission's failed." So we had that discussion, and they've gone 9-2 since. But you have to get real frank sometimes with --
Jim Collison 15:27
Yeah, well, and I think, you know, I was, I was talking to a group of coaches just yesterday. And I think even sometimes when we think about our strengths reports that, you know, so we get these people to finally take CliftonStrengths. And they, they, then we hand them their reports; then we spoon-feed them the, the analysis; then we tell them what it means, instead of letting them take ownership and, you know, "Did you do the prework?" I know a lot of coaches that give prework for the very first conversation they're going to have. And we're so afraid that, that they're gonna, they're gonna walk away, but we really in some ways want them, we, we want that high ownership. I -- that's what I hear you saying is high ownership in the process. And I think that's a lesson in itself, by the way, I, you know, I know for some things --
Maureen Monte 16:19
A life lesson.
Jim Collison 16:19
Yeah, I'm really hesitant to buy something until I get to the point where it really bothers me that I don't have it. You know, it's one of those kinds of things, where I'm like, "Oh, if I just would have had it!" that might be an indicator that I need it, as opposed to trying to have everything available in the moment. I've bought so many things. And I was like, I never used them because I didn't really need them. Right. So I think a great, I think a great life lesson in there. Let's dig into some of these lessons, by the way.
Maureen Monte 16:44
OK. Yes, sorry, I'm already off track.
Life Lesson 1: Get to the Root of the Problem
Jim Collison 16:46
No, this is -- no, there is no off track on Called to Coach. What's Lesson No. 1?
Maureen Monte 16:50
Lesson No. 1? Oh, I'm on the wrong page. Identify, embrace, tackle and solve the hard problems. That's where the value is to the client. I am paid to get to the root of hard problems for clients. That is why they are paying me. The tip of the iceberg is not where the gold is; the gold is deeper than that. And we got to get to the whole iceberg because no team is unsinkable. No team's unsinkable. So this next real brief case study was with a large, multimillion -billion dollar company. So they're not small potatoes; they're big potatoes. And big-potato companies have big-potato problems. Right?
Maureen Monte 17:35
So I was brought in to help with a CEO and his direct reports that are global -- around the United States and then in, a couple in Europe, to basically play like a team. Right? We had new people; we had a reorg. There was, there was a series of things -- this team had not coalesced. And a fragmented team will underperform a united team every time. So I come in, and I explained, we'll do Destination Unstoppable. We'll identify strengths; we'll build a team Trust Bank and commit to a team Trust Bank. We will define success, and everyone will be valued for being valuable -- because the, the, at the root of Destination Unstoppable is a third-string goalie that never played a game who helped that team win in other ways, right? So, but when I ever, whenever I work at the top of the heap, on the, at the top of house of a large company like that, I always do individual coaching first, which is, it's not rocket science, right? There's egos, there's concerns; we know they're not coalesced.
Maureen Monte 18:35
So those all went very well, with the exception of one. And when we did his debrief, he was delightful. But he's cautious. His strengths reflect, reflect his cautiousness. And he said, "So tell me about the team workshop we're going to have." So the plan was individual coaching, team workshop, more work, and then we have another workshop. That was the plan. And I said, "Well, we'll take a look at everybody's Top 10, and we'll see what it means -- what it means to you, what it means to me, what it means to the group." And he goes, "You're gonna share my results?" I said, "Yes." He goes, "No, no, no, no!" And I said, "Why? Aren't you -- don't you want people to know what makes you great?" "No, it's none of their business. It's none of their business."
Maureen Monte 19:29
So this goes on, and I'm laughing. I could, you know, we can, he can, I don't care. "We'll figure it out," is my take. But I said, "Well, aren't you curious about their strengths?" He paused. But then he says, "No," right. He's not. And then he said, "But I'll bet you the head of HR has Empathy." I said, "Well, I would love to discuss that with you, but we're not ever going to share our strengths, so that wouldn't be possible." And he said, he said, "You're trying to manipulate me." I said, "If you have questions about her strengths, you go talk to her," right. So I left it at that; I let it go. I explained to her. We got him to agree to the Top 10. But I bet you today -- this was a few months ago -- I bet you today he's not shared his whole profile with other people on the team. But that's his problem. Right?
Maureen Monte 20:14
So, but you got to get through those hard problems, right? So then we meet as a team. And the goal was, with prework, of course, I want to know what success looks like for this team, what the challenges are, and a few other questions I do as part of the prework. And I thought we'd get through the strengths, success for the team and the challenges. We didn't. It was the first time they'd been together since COVID started. So it'd been a year and a half since they've been together. And we only got through the strengths, right, and a little bit of the others. But that's OK. Because once the magic starts, let the magic continue. Right, I didn't interrupt a thing that was, something was going very, very well.
Maureen Monte 20:47
And one of the things I like to do with a team analysis is I slice and dice. So we, I show all 14, 15 people's Top 10. And then what they have in common and what the makeup looks like -- this many, this percentage is Relationship Building, etc., etc. But I slice and dice by gender, by org, any slice and dicing that can help with understanding and insight. Right. And so then I begin to just ask questions: "What do you think it means that nobody has Includer in their Top 10 on this team?" Right? Look at the, look at the, the two different organizations. Look how different you are, right? They then start to ask questions. They're laughing, they're talking to one another; I just let it go. So that went very well. Great.
Maureen Monte 21:31
Then there was work in between. And I, at halfway through -- we were meeting 3 months later, because they got to come from all over; they don't meet together very often. And I have them give me feedback like, "Today, what is the current state of your team Trust Bank? If you had to scale, a scale of 1, where it's low, to 10, where it's great, what is it?" And they all sent me their responses, along with their justification, as well as what are the challenges this team faces? And so I'm getting 15 different perspectives. One person says it's an 8; other person says it's a 2. I know who said the 2 -- not that it matters; it's his experience, right? So I put it all in a document. I remove all the names. It is a long document; now I have 15. And I shared it with the CEO and the HR, and my job is to provide insight, right. And I talked about what I thought I saw, asked them what they thought.
Maureen Monte 22:26
And then I said, "I personally think we should share this raw document, raw data with everybody before we meet again." It gives them time to think about it. Right. So then we have the second -- they agree; to their credit, they agree. And they, then, then we have the next meeting. Right? And it was a lunch, very brief, a build-blankets-for-the-homeless team-building thingy over lunch. And then we start at 1:00. Well, my problem child doesn't show up on time. And then he would still like to slowly eat his chicken salad outside the room. And the CEO and everybody else is ready. I said, "It's 1:00." It's my workshop. It's my house. I said, "We're starting!" I kind of yelled at him. And he said, "I'll be there in a minute." I said, "We're starting now." And I started. And he didn't like it. Right? I don't care. This is my job. You are supposed to be here. It's disrespectful to the CEO. It's a withdrawal from the team Trust Bank, and everybody else is here. So get in here.
Maureen Monte 23:22
So, and here's what happened; I've never had anything like it. I sit in front of the room, and I said, "So why don't we just start with -- I've shared all the data, right, the stuff you said. What do you guys think?" Well, it began. And we finally got to the gold of this, what this team needed. I stood there for 2 1/2 hours and never said another word.
Jim Collison 23:44
They began to dialogue. They began to talk it through. Some, Maureen, sometimes that can, I mean, you have to kind of referee -- when it begins, you got to kind of referee that a little bit too, to make sure it stays fairly positive. Right. When you're getting to the heart of problems, though, it's not always positive, right?
Maureen Monte 24:02
It isn't. It's direct. And there was some, you know, swearing and some real examples. I have to get 17 levels of approval to give someone a $50 gift certificate, right? I mean, we're talking about these basic things, right. So it was very, very good. And I would never have let it get completely out of hand. But I'm willing to let, to get a little bit direct, right. So anyhow --
Jim Collison 24:24
So with your, with your hockey background, what you're saying is you allow them to fight a little bit.
Maureen Monte 24:29
You do. You know, sometimes you need to clear the air. And there are people -- I was reading about the other day, and I used this once in another company, and it didn't go over well. But the way you get a mule's attention is to hit him with a 2 x 4. So there are some people who needed to be hit by a 2 x 4. Right? They've been there a long time. They have their own opinions. It's all right. So it was great. And I, you know, I got feedback that was, it was terrific. You made your ex -- and they described it my expert command of the content, which, at that point, I didn't even talk, but prior to that. But the point is the strengths, CliftonStrengths helps them, it's the foundation for everything else; put some goals and the dialogue around it. So I encourage people to find that place where they're adding value on top of, or, or along the chain that, and I like, I like a system; the system for me has worked. And I am not a Discipline person. We were talking about that. But this system works. All right.
Life Lesson 2: Connect Strengths to Success Metrics
Jim Collison 25:24
Let me, let me in Lesson 2, you talk a little bit about knowing what, what success looks like. And in that group, if we can just stay with that, at what point -- because this is tough; like this is the hardest part of coaching, especially in the sense of the corporate coaching group world. At what point did you define or did you know success metrics for this team? Did you have those before this conversation? Did you know where you were going before it? Did they come out of it? Can you talk a little bit about that?
Maureen Monte 25:58
Sure. We had done some rough stuff in our first workshop on what success looks like for this team. I don't define it, although my objective is always the same. I unify, a winning team -- I build winning teams; unified, overcomes obstacles and achieves goals. That's, that's what it is for me. That's my, what success looks like for this team. Theirs is that they have to own it. So I never tell people what to do or how to do it. But they, they came up with the things that they, they needed. And it was unity, which is ... problem; it always is with teams. And then also kind of some inclusiveness kind of stuff, and, of course, we'll get Includer. Right?
Maureen Monte 26:38
So people would, we, one of the things they said is, "We have a culture of nice. And the culture of nice isn't working when solving business, these business problems." It's been a challenging couple of years, right, for everybody, especially including this company. So getting them to embrace what success looks like for this team, so they sent that to me. And then I kind of did a rough draft based on that -- wordsmithed it a little bit; shortened it; people said similar things, but not identical, does that cover it? And at the end of the day, we, they had a statement that they owned, that included both what they want to do as the team -- this doesn't, this is not your numbers per se. It is not, it's not, you know, goals like, We have to sell this much. But it's what this team must do, and how you behave to get there. That's what, that's what a success statement is in my book. Right? That will get you the business metrics. But we have to agree to these things. It's a little bit of an operating principle statement.
Jim Collison 27:35
We should clear up some cultural misconceptions just really quick. So Justin is in the U.K.; they probably have different measurements, 2 x 4s. You can say "a stick," you could say, "a stick."
Maureen Monte 27:48
A big, thick stick.
Jim Collison 27:49
I think, Maureen, I think, when we think about defining metrics and then holding to those metrics, like we're gonna hold at all costs, and we're gonna get team unity, and we're gonna do this, I think there's a fear -- and Catherine brings up this fear: Have you ever had an experience where that approach backfired? Right, you come in hard, you come in hot, and then it doesn't quite work? How as a coach do you, you, particularly, how do you handle that situation, where you're like, "Oh, this isn't going well."
Maureen Monte 28:21
First of all, coming in hard and hot is always my last -- even though I'm combative, as you know, with low Harmony, it's, it's the last resort. It's when nothing else has worked. And to Catherine's excellent point, I worked with an executive in the automotive industry, female, who was notoriously late to meetings or just didn't show up at all -- for her team meeting. We met -- we were supposed to meet, and I was there on time. And she texted, I, she texted me and said, "I'm on my way." Fifteen minutes passed. Now we're 15 after when we're supposed to be there. And she came strolling in, perfect lipstick applied, she's got a Starbucks coffee. And we had an ineffective strengths conversation. They were trying to get her to change her behavior -- "they" being HR. They asked me to meet with HR, her boss and her. OK? Now I'm good with that. Right?
Maureen Monte 29:16
So far, I'm remaining nice, OK. And she doesn't show for that meeting! The head of HR is a VP. And so I said, "Well, did you make it clear to her?" So clear expectations are critical, right? And accountability is critical. And I said, "Did you make it clear to her that she had to be there at, let's say, 2:00?" whenever we were meeting. And her manager said, "Well, I added you to the invite, and I hoped that that would send the right message." I'm like, "She's never going to hear that." Right. This is the "you got to hit her with a 2 x 4" moment. And I said, "I think you need something stronger." I might have even used the words "hit her with a 2 x 4." But they never, they were afraid to challenge her. And she wins, right, and they've got a team suffering.
Jim Collison 30:01
That's really common. I mean, that is a common, you know, it is the, confrontation is difficult. And, and there -- listen, we could spend hours on conflict resolution, conflict management. In fact, we spent some time with, with Alicia Santamaria talking about this last year in conflict resolution. So yeah, we won't pretend to get to the root. I mean, there's, this, this is where the rubber meets the road. And I think it gets very, very difficult.
Maureen Monte 30:27
It is, and here's the deal with the team Trust Bank. This is where a team Trust Bank works. It's an accountability tool. You don't have to say, "You're a rotten manager, woman, and your teams hate you, and we're really struggling with figure out what to do with you." But if you say, "Actually, not showing up is disrespectful and a withdrawal from the team Trust Bank, and we've committed to making deposits only to the team Trust Bank," then you can hold them accountable that way. But you've got to do it every single time. You both show gratitude when there's a deposit in the Trust Bank, and you challenge withdrawals. And it can be done nicely. But you can say, "For me that was a withdrawal from the team Trust Bank. For someone who's more sensitive -- I'm not sensitive -- but not showing up is utterly disrespectful. Right. That's a withdrawal.
Jim Collison 31:10
That's a really good concept, I think, you know, very similar to we have this idea of a Drop in the Bucket, in relationships, a deposit into the Trust Bank, and then you just made it withdrawal. You know, and it, it does allow to have that kind of conversation in a more, with a little bit more, I guess, easier words for folks to, to work through. So you had another example, as we think about this setting, you know, and defining success metrics, and how that's helpful. You had another example. Can you share that one with us? From your book.
Maureen Monte 31:49
Lesson No. 2?
Jim Collison 31:50
Yeah, No., No. 2. We're at No. 2, a little behind the scenes -- we're in 2 in the outline.
Maureen Monte 31:56
Oh, yes, of course. It is actually quite similar. I explained that the, at the core of Win Like a Girl is a focus on Confidence in Managing Fear. But let's, it's, let's talk about how hard this is for young people to positions of authority. Right. So when you have to pull the Trust Bank card, violation card, on an adult on, on a person in authority, that can be hard. And this was, one of the, one of the chapters in Win Like a Girl is a start to the young season of a girls' lacrosse team I worked with. They'd won the state championship for the 2 years prior we'd worked together. And this year, they were like, 1-6 or some -- a terrible start to the season: 1 win, 6 losses. And they're, they're all panicking.
Maureen Monte 32:38
Parents are coming to me, "What's wrong with this team?" We had a late start to getting together, whatever, it doesn't matter. I'm like, "Maybe nothing's wrong. There are a lot of new girls," right, younger girls. So long story short, as part of it, our journey from disaster to some really great success was that they played well in the first half but not in the second. And so, the more I focused on the second-half-itis, no one could give me any clarity why this was a problem, right? Why are we, why are we doing, why are we behaving this way? So I said, "Let's have another meeting." I have a good relationship with the head coach; not so good with the two assistant coaches, which is another story. But the, and so we met, and I said, "What's up with the second-half-itis?" right. No one's, no one speaks.
Maureen Monte 33:21
So right then, you know, you've got the iceberg that's about, that's sinking the team, right? So I said, "You guys got, you guys know. So I need to know. There's wisdom in this team; you have to share it with me so I can help you." And the, one, one, somebody mumbles, "The coaches are always so negative." I said, "Oh, OK. OK. So 'Coaches are negative' -- That is a global, broad statement. Thank you. Now we have a place to start. Give me a specific example." So now somebody has got to call, say a coach, explain why a coach is negative, right. And so this freshman raises her hand, and real clear, she goes, "I'll give you an example. Yesterday when I was trying to learn a new defense thingy, my question, I asked a question, and my question was met with sarcasm." And you could see her tears starting up, and she said, "I don't appreciate," right, and so I, I'm like I went right over, hand on the shoulder. "Good job. That took courage to say it, and that is specific." But now I have to decide what to do next. Right. I can see the coach that I think it is fuming. It's not the head coach.
Maureen Monte 34:30
And so I thought for like one millisecond, this is where Ideation kicks in. I said, "Do you guys know the root of the word 'sarcasm'?" And they didn't. I said, "Going by memory, I believe sarcasm is Latin for 'tearing the flesh.' When you are with your friends, and you're having fun, and you're learning and you're just having a good time, be as sarcastic as you want. In a learning and growth environment, where you're trying to move out of your comfort zone and having a coach be sarcastic about your very valid question -- you were confused -- is a withdrawal from the team Trust Bank; we don't make withdrawals. And when we do," I said, "so let's talk about what happens next, if there's a withdrawal. Everybody makes mistakes. Coach makes mistakes; I make mistakes; you guys make mistakes. But when there's a withdrawal, fix it. Apologize, say, 'I'm sorry; I'll do better next time.' Because when you do that, that's deposit. A withdrawal becomes a deposit." Right? So that's where, and then they went on, and in the book, I explained what happened, but we got through it.
Jim Collison 35:35
I love, I love that, the visualization on that. And I think that deposit based on the initial withdrawal can actually be more powerful. In other words, that you pull it, yeah, yeah, it's been pulled out, and it's not ideal. But when you put it back in, the process of doing that creates -- and I don't know if it's linear or exponential -- but it creates growth in that, to be able to say, "Listen, I've been plenty sarcastic in my, in my responses to people. And the opportunity, this is an area I probably, even as, in the work that I do, of admitting, "Yeah, you know what? I was, I was very sarcastic. And I'm sorry. I was, I was trying to get this point across. That's not the right way to do it; it wasn't appropriate. Let's, OK, let's -- it's out. Sorry about that. Let's, let's move forward." I think that can have some really, I mean, that in itself is a success metric in some regards, right.
Maureen Monte 36:30
It is, and what we want out of that is -- my goal is that all my teams run like a pack of wolves -- corporate and sports. We don't care, they will never run like a pack of wolves if you have discouraged morale and low morale. They will not join the pack. So we need the pack, and we don't need to care who gets the wolf. OK. So -- I mean, who gets the elk, like they're chasing an elk, right? A pack of wolves is chasing an animal. We don't need to care who takes the animal down. The pack, everyone will get to eat. So the pack of wolves, you know, the strength of the wolf is the pack; the strength of the pack is the wolf. We need both. But we are always this. And that's, that's the success metric. Did we get there? And did they then play like, and fight like, a pack? So that's the goal.
Jim Collison 37:17
Yeah, it's, and it's, it is by far I think the hardest. Like, I mean, all these things you're, Maureen, this stuff is so, this is difficult stuff. Like I think sometimes we, the magic of coaching, I think we think is that moment when someone, you know, sees their Top 5 for the first time, and they begin to talk about themselves, and the heavens open up and angels sing.
Maureen Monte 37:40
And that is great.
Jim Collison 37:41
It is great. It is great. But it's just the beginning of a very difficult process of working through, right, of working through. I know many of the coaches listening today know that, but I think it's a, I think it's a great reminder to us of, of that. Can we, are we OK, can we move on to No. 3? Because I want to dig into this a little bit.
Maureen Monte 37:59
And this will be short.
Life Lesson 3: Know What Success Looks Like for You
Jim Collison 38:00
But let's -- yeah, well, maybe, maybe it'll be short. I mean, I might make it long. So let's talk about lesson No. 3.
Maureen Monte 38:10
So trust the process, right? Use the process, trust the process. I did use my, I just turned down a, a 6-month engagement, and I don't, I rarely turn down engagements unless I think I cannot add value, the value that they need. And there was something about their perspective that I, frankly, felt was counter to a strong, a strengths discussion. It'd be like saying, you can only have Maximizer and be part of this team. Right? And I, you know, I talked about it a little bit, I thought about it, and I'm like, No, this is, they're not ready for this. But there's someone else who can help them. And I referred them to someone else. And I did it with Harmony and diplomacy. And that, that in itself is, because I wanted to tell them I thought they were nuts. But I didn't do that. And so that's good news.
Maureen Monte 38:55
So trust the process, though, trust that your process -- know where it works, right. My goal is to bring my best game to the client. And I'm looking for what those right places. Someone I asked if I was an athlete -- Yes, I was. Right. And that does help. But what I love about sports teams is they are all in, and they value the strength of a pitcher. They don't try to make a pitcher a catcher or a goalie a goal, a major goal scorer, right? So there's part of that too. But I wanted to just under -- emphasize that you can do everything right and still not win the game. But trust the process. Because even if you're not there, when the, at the end of the game and you think, "Man, I don't know," and only some of the people made the journey. Right?
Maureen Monte 39:44
So you can have a group of dehydrated horses that need to drink at the fountain. But not all of them will. Right. And so maybe they need a little more, they need to be thirstier for a little bit longer. They, no matter how desperately they need help, they have their, have their own agenda, or they don't want the team to succeed; they may not even want the leader to succeed. I ran into that recently. So, but know that, that at some point, it will stick, it will stick, and you don't need to be there to see it. And sometimes I hear about how the horse got religion and drank some water from the horse itself, an athlete or a coach or a leader coming to me and telling me about it. Or I hear about it from parents or a corporate executive will tell me about how someone finally got on board with something. That's all great, right? So you trust that your process is working, even if you're not there to see it, right.
Maureen Monte 40:38
And I explained one quick example. I worked with a hockey player. And he was part of the Destination Unstoppable 2 team, the best team ever. But the, I worked with him from, from 9th grade to when he graduated in June. And as I explained to you, Jim, he started his career in the penalty box and he ended his career in the penalty box. And despite our many conversations about how unhelpful it is to be in the penalty box. You have to withdraw from the team Trust Bank; you don't score from the penalty box last time I checked -- nobody scores a goal from there. So in, when he was a freshman, we discussed it, and he was excited about his strengths, and there was a lot of horsepower there, right, a lot of Influencing talent.
Maureen Monte 41:16
And, and then his, his sophomore year, we talked about, What can you do to not retaliate? I swear, if another guy looked at him, he was retaliating for it. So, and he said, he was studying algebra at the time, and he said, "If I turn my skates 45 degrees, I could skate away." I said, "Well, turn your skates 45 degrees!" I always make the athlete come up with ideas. Then they own the solution. They need to own the solution. Right? So I'm not there to tell him. But, so we did that, and that one helped a little. And then he was a junior, and he's like, "I'm a junior now!" And I'm like, "Yes. And people look to you for leadership. So think of that when you're yelling at the ref. So if we can try buttoning that up, that would be good."
Maureen Monte 42:00
And in his senior year, each time we made, I would say, like 10% progress per year. Not great. But 10%. And there were times I said to him, "You are the best," coaches said, "You're the best player on the team sometimes, but not in the penalty box." So they, the Destination Unstoppable 2 team comes to, and they play, and they're not that talented. But man, they continue to win, they continue to win, and they win -- they're going to win the state final, 4-1. And with 9 seconds left, he gets a penalty! Like I wanted to kill him. And kids are laughing in the stands. And he's, he's in the penalty box, laughing his head off. I'm just like, Oh my God, I never, you know, it's a failure. I'm a failure. And, and then, over the summer, maybe August or about August, I got a text from him in the middle of the night. And he said, "Maureen, I just played my first junior hockey game" -- and that's where you go before you go to college to play. "And I put everything you taught me to use, and I stayed in the game." And I think that might have been the only game he ever played from start to finish where he didn't end up in the penalty box. I don't know. But I reply, "Oh, I'm so proud of you. Good for you," you know. So you just never know. And even if you don't know, trust that some seeds have been planted.
Jim Collison 43:10
Derek asks a great question along this. He says, With my Strategic Thinking themes, how do you not fall into the temptation to change the process if you, if you didn't win, right? Even if you have a reputable process, how do you stay true to that, like, stay the course, go the distance, right? How do you --
Maureen Monte 43:33
The force is with you.
Jim Collison 43:37
Any -- just driving through Iowa. So how do you, how do you do that?
A Winning Team: Unified, Overcomes Obstacles, Attains Goals
Maureen Monte 43:41
I think, first of all, from a team standpoint, it's, they do start here and they end here. It has never as a team failed to make them higher performing. And at the individual level. I try to hold them accountable. And I, there doesn't make them bad people if they're not ready, but they will be ready someday. So it's just my Belief, perhaps it's through the -- I've been doing this since 2006 in a similar fashion, right, that I've never seen it utterly fail across an entire team ever. And we've had hard conversations and we make this much progress rather than this much progress. And remember what winning looks like to me: a unified team that overcomes obstacles and achieve their goals. That's what winning looks like to me. So
Jim Collison 44:33
If they get to the end of the season, and they didn't make the state championship, but they --
Maureen Monte 44:39
I could care less. They care, right, especially the male athletes, because they're so competitive, but I could care less. And I say that to them: "I love you either way. I don't care if you win," and they don't like me to say that. Because it's important to them. I'm like, "I don't care," but I want to see unification, I want to see a wolfpack out there.
Evaluating Yourself as a Coach
Jim Collison 44:56
Maureen, I didn't, I didn't tell you I was gonna ask this question -- I think it's a hard one, but I want to ask it anyway. At the very highest levels, when coaches don't perform -- in other words, the defined success is winning, so to speak, and they don't, many at the highest levels are just fired immediately. As a coach, now, we don't see that happening in the corporate sense -- or maybe we do, in some regards. But as a coach, in what you've, in the experiences you've been through in these highly competitive environments, when they're not winning, how do you keep from, from quitting? And saying, "You know, maybe I'm not, maybe I'm not everything I think I should, I should be with this?"
Maureen Monte 45:39
Jim Collison 45:39
Maureen Monte 45:41
So first of all, I think, to me, it goes back to Extreme Ownership: Have I done every single thing I could? Have I owned the relationship with the coach? You know, I had a team last year, oh, the coach; the girls, though, I'd worked with for years, right. And I could either give up on the whole thing or I could continue to work with those girls, because they desperately wanted me to. There were, there were workshops she did not show up to -- the coach. But I did not do everything I could have to improve the relationship with her. I got so frustrated with a few, very few conversations I had, that I could get her to have with me. But I could have gone to the athletic director and said, "Help me understand what's going on with her." Right. There were things I could have done that I didn't do. So I need to own it. And there is, and then there are other reasons: The team needs it, even if she isn't getting it. And the question will be, What do I do this year? Because she's gonna be the head coach again; we'll see. But it is a, it's a very interesting, it can be very hard, but I want to own 100% of what I can do to make it work.
Jim Collison 46:49
It's never perfect, right? I think sometimes we think we're going into these things, it's going to work this way. They're gonna win the national championship. It's gonna be great. And --
Maureen Monte 46:58
Well, look at the, just look at the playoffs of any sport. It's rarely the team they, they thought, right? So this is why we play the game. And winning twice is hard if you've won a championship. I don't know that this year's team will do it. They have more talent. But right now, they're not a wolfpack. Right. So, but still, the journey, and I have this disagree -- I don't, "disagreement" is not the right word. I met with the captains this year, and I said, "Winning the state championship doesn't change your life." And they were like, "It does too!" I said, "It doesn't. Did you get more money? Did you get a better grade? A new job?" They're high school players, right? No. But playing like a pack of wolves, becoming utterly unified in pursuing a state championship like a pack of wolves -- that changes your life, because you can do that anywhere. So that's what I try to do.
Teamwork, Winning in the Corporate Space
Jim Collison 47:50
I love that. Maureen, as we think about the corporate space -- and you've got a lot of experience in the corporate space as well -- there isn't a state championship. There isn't a Super Bowl. There isn't a FIFA championship, whatever they call it, in soccer or in football. The, how do you, just, just some thoughts on driving teams to success where those big, those big events don't necessarily exist. Any thoughts on that?
Maureen Monte 48:19
Well, but they do. Show me a business, including nonprofits -- and they're harder to get on this page -- that isn't competing with somebody else. Your -- business is a competitive sport. You are trying to win something. You're trying to win market share; you're trying to win number of clients; you're trying to win. And somebody else is trying to take your elk from you. Right? There are wolves everywhere pursuing the same stuff. So that, I just make, help them make that mind shift. Right? It is harder, especially in today's environment, where people are more easily offended. Right. So, but I'm straightforward about it.
Jim Collison 49:06
When you're working with leadership teams at the C level, do you, do you use, you know, financials as success metrics to say, ultimately, market share or units moved or total revenue in some of those? Because the results of teams working better together, right, the results of people knowing and understanding who they are and being able to do that with their teammates can have and should have a direct -- we know through The Gallup Path that will have a direct -- should have a direct revenue. Do you spend much time? I think some folks are afraid to go that way. Because --
Maureen Monte 49:46
No, I'm not afraid to go that way. But I would say there's the formal system of success, and there's the human system of success. And you will be, this is way more likely -- the financials, the employee engagement even -- right, if the human system of success is working well, and so it deserves equal attention. And there's, we don't even say the word "team chemistry" in the corporate world. We should. Because that's what, that's the human system, system of success. Right? So I'm real clear about, let's get clear on the formal system, which is, by the way, your ticket to the game. If you can't play hockey -- you can't do accounting, and you're an accounting firm -- I can't help you, right. That's your ticket to the game. Be great at that; know what success looks like there; and invest in the human system of success equally. And it takes just as much practice, deliberate practice, takes just as much focus on understanding your people as pursuing the other stuff does. Right? They're really clear, they're often clear on the metrics; they're way less clear on what success looks like for this team. And that's done at each leader level, right?
Undermining Others Because of Fear of Success
Jim Collison 50:54
There is sometimes fear in teams of being too successful, too, in the sense, like, What happens if we do achieve this? You mentioned this a little bit earlier. I think sometimes, there are teams, there's some fear in, like, if this goes too well, and I know that sounds kind of weird, but people will start sabotaging teams when they're afraid, like, Oh, if, you know, I'll get voted off the island -- if this team's too successful, I don't feel like I'm a part of that success factor, and I'm going to get voted off the island. So I'm going to start maybe doing some things to tone it down a bit. Right. And I think we miss that element in teams, too, is, you talked, you said this word "fear," and there some, there's some unrealistic fear about the consequences of said success.
Jim Collison 51:48
I can't tell you how many times I've done a project and I've had somebody fight me on the project. And when you start getting to the bottom, you realize the success of that project creating a great amount of fear in someone, because it changes my world, or I've only been this kind of programmer for this long. What happens when that, you know, the, the success is replacing that system? But is it really replacing them? That's how they see it. Right? That's how they see it. And so you may be seeing sabotage internally, based on things that don't make sense, because you haven't dug in to say like, What are you, what are you really afraid of in success, right?
Maureen Monte 52:26
In success. By the way, undermining others is a withdrawal from the team Trust Bank. And whatever movie you are creating inside your head -- and we all create movies -- cannot come true. I don't care what disaster movie, what opera you are creating inside your head about what that future is, it will not come true. Not like you imagined it. Not exactly. So stay in the now. Let's, right, let's focus on where we are. Know that we're going to make it as a team. You're part of the team. You'll be part of the team after, right? We'll find, find a spot for you to continue to learn and grow. I bet that -- to me, it still gets back to the unity and managing that movie you create inside your head. And we all do it.
Jim Collison 53:07
Yeah. It -- I love that. Sometimes it never, it never turns out like you think it's going to.
Maureen Monte 53:12
It's never going to turn out exactly like you think it's going to -- ever.
Jim Collison 53:17
One more question for you. And then we're gonna, for those listening live, we're gonna kind of do an extended postshow. If you're listening to the recorded version of this, this only be available live, for you to get to ask Maureen some questions; we'll just kind of go rapid fire. But Sarah asks this question, and I think just a clarifying question; we'll kind of wrap on this one: Is it everything I COULD have done or everything I COMMITTED to do? Does that resonate with you at all, as you look at that, Maureen? And how would you, how would you respond to that question?
Maureen Monte 53:44
I think it's a good question. They should be the same thing. If you're committed to the success of the team, eventually, they should be the same thing. Right? And, for example, that coach I struggled with, if we work together again, this year -- God help me -- I will be more committed to creating, making that relationship work. I will take 100% responsibility for making that relationship work. And I didn't do that last year. So there's a mind shift. I could have done things. But I wasn't committed to it either. I gave up on her. Right. I got frustrated with her. I didn't understand it. So I gave up. And that's on me. That was a bad choice. Right. So I think, I think there is a line there. But if we are fully committed to the success of the team, we try to, we do everything we can. Right. So me included, right?
Jim Collison 54:42
Yeah. It's such a great, you know, I've been, I've been thinking a lot about leadership, and I've been thinking about where lately -- or in the past; we were just chatting about this in preshow -- where my leadership has broken down. And oftentimes, it's when I've gotten too me-centered and not we-centered, right? Talked a lot, on Theme Thursday, we talked a lot about this "me" versus "we," and bringing that. And that's what I just heard you say is, you know what? It's going to be difficult. I'm going to own it and do all that I can. If it doesn't work, it doesn't, it doesn't work. I mean, I've done, I've done everything I can to make it work. But I'm going to at least put myself in a situation.
Jim Collison 55:23
I think all of us have those opportunities, including this guy, to evaluate those -- whether it be with my kids or, or in my work relationships or the things that I do around the podcasting space, to say, Did I, did I do everything I could do? Because, trust me, there's been times I've sabotaged things, because I just didn't want to do them. So just easier to sabotage. And say, "Yeah, this will fail. OK, it's done. Now, let's, let's close the doors. And let's move on," right, instead of really going at the problem -- agreeing, like, Yeah, let's not do this anymore type deal, as opposed to just sabotaging.
Maureen Monte 56:01
A dialogue, which would probably work a little bit better. But, you know, one of the challenges of the 100% commitment to the success of the relationship, we're often waiting for that 50% mark -- what are they doing? Right? But if you own it 100%, then it isn't about what they're doing. Now, it may never work, but I will at least have done 100%, fully committed 100% to the success of that relationship. Not 50%, or 25% because they're annoying, right, I'll try a little bit. No, 100%, I'm responsible 100% for the quality of the relationship with that coach. Yuck. It's not what I want to do, but it's what I have to do.
Jim Collison 56:40
Right. Right. Maureen, thanks for coming out today. Again, if you're listening live, hang tight. We'll do some additional questions in the postshow. But thank you, thanks for your time and thanks for your commitment. You've been doing the long game with us for a long time at this point. Always great to catch up.
Maureen Monte 56:56
You guys have been great partners. And Jim, you are one of my favorite people, and Blanca as well. So thank you, thank you, thank you!
Jim Collison 57:03
Appreciate that. Always, always a trusted partner. I know I can just pick up the phone if I -- or do a Zoom call these days. Nobody picks up the phone anymore. That's like, you know, yeah, anyways. So thank you for the --
Maureen Monte 57:18
Thank you for the opportunity. And thanks for people for showing up. And the success for this was, was it fun and entertaining and helpful? If it was, we had success today.
Jim Collison 57:27
Yeah. And, and maybe as I close things out, drop in chat what you learned. Let's just do that really quick so we can kind of see any takeaways from you. And Jan, I've got your question. We'll cover that here in the postshow. With that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources we now have available in Gallup Access. Go to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. For coaching, master coaching, or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, you can send us an email: firstname.lastname@example.org. And we'll get somebody back with you, so, with some information on that. You can stay up to date with everything that's going on -- follow us on any social platform, just search "CliftonStrengths." If you're listening to this as a podcast, go ahead and subscribe to Called to Coach so you never miss an episode -- or there on YouTube in the corner, right down there, there's a Subscribe button. And click on that and hit the notification bell so that you don't miss it when we produce these live. Thanks for coming out today. And thanks for being a part of this. Maureen, thanks again. Always great to spend time with you. Live folks, stay around for a little bit of postshow. With that, we'll say, Goodbye everybody.
Maureen Monte's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Ideation, Strategic, Learner, Achiever and Individualization.