- In what specific ways can leaders serve as coaches for those they lead?
- How does CliftonStrengths help leaders to accelerate their own development?
- What role can coaches play in leaders' development process?
Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 10, Episode 8.
Below are audio and video plus a transcript of the conversation, including time stamps.
Organizational leaders need great coaches who, in turn, can guide leaders on their journey from boss to coach. And CliftonStrengths can accelerate that journey. A great coach guides leaders into greater self-awareness, which includes developing their talents into strengths and understanding how to manage their blind spots. Join Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach Dahlia Sutrisno, Director and Founder of Euphoric Coaching, and Libertha Hutapea, AVP of People Partner and Talent Development at Tokopedia in Indonesia, as they share their experience with leadership development.
People with bad managers are very miserable at work, and they're not able to perform at their best. ... How do I empower people to be at their best? ... the only way is to start with the leaders.Dahlia Sutrisno, 30:06
Leadership is from the self to the tribe; from the home to the office.Dahlia Sutrisno, 29:40
As a leader, before you go on and coach your team members, learn about your strengths, learn about your blind spots, and try to match that to your leadership style.Libertha Hutapea, 56:21
Jim Collison 0:00
I am Jim Collison, and this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on February 23, 2022.
Jim Collison 0:19
Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. There's a link right above us there on the live page. Just log in with your Google account. Ask your questions in chat. If you're listening after the fact, maybe via podcast or on YouTube, you can send us an email with your questions: email@example.com. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. And if you're watching on YouTube, there's a Subscribe button right down there in the corner, and you can subscribe to it as well. Bruno Zadeh is our host today. He works as a Coaching Community Leader in APAC and a partner to me in that. Bruno, great to have you back on Called to Coach. Welcome back!
Meet Our Guests on This Episode
Bruno Zadeh 1:06
Thank you, Jim! So today, yeah, you would like me to -- yep. OK. So, today I would like to introduce two fantastic persons: Dahlia and Libertha. Because we are all very inclusive, I will start to introduce Dahlia, and Dahlia will introduce Libertha after. So Dahlia, it's a long time. I know you with 6 years. And Dahlia is a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach. Her Top 5 are Competition, Maximizer, Achiever, Learner and Focus. So in the lens of Dahlia, it's about achievement and be very competitive; you will feel that during the interview -- she brings a lot of maximizing perspective. Dahlia is the Director and Founder of Euphoric, Euphoric Coaching, a management consultancy that she created 4 years ago. And her background is very particular because she started 17 years old to teach and coach children from low- to middle-income households. So she was always this perspective of helping others. She's passionate about mathematics and behavioral economics. She had joined Gallup a long time ago, and she stayed in Gallup during 6 years, before creating her own coaching practice. And she had the opportunity to be trained and to connect with leaders, psychologists, researchers, subject-matter experts. So she will bring lots of insights in this Called to Coach. Her expertise are leadership development, setting up novice leaders for success, and bringing leaders on this strengths journey, building strength-based teams, and 360 feedback coaching at the executive level. And the topic today we are deciding to maximize will be How CliftonStrengths is an accelerator for development and perform with confidence. Dahlia, I'll have you introduce Libertha.
Dahlia Sutrisno 3:03
Hi, everyone! Hi, Bruno! Hi, Libertha! Thank you for the introduction, Bruno. So here's Libertha Hutapea. She is a strengths champion and an HR enthusiast from Tokopedia, Indonesia. And Libertha, welcome! Why don't you introduce yourself? You're the AVP of People Partner and Talent Development at Tokopedia. Tell us more about yourself and Tokopedia and what you do in Tokopedia.
Libertha Hutapea 3:34
Yeah, hi! Hello, everyone! Thank you, Dahlia. Thank you, Bruno, for the introduction. So yes, I'm Libertha Hutapea. I'm the AVP of People Partner and Talent Development in Tokopedia. Basically, I'm heading several teams here in the People and HR teams there. Start from HR business partnering, organization development, talent and performance management. I've always been an HR enthusiast. I think HR has always been my heart since I was in college. And I'm very passionate for how other people, especially the team or peers that work with me to understand their strengths, their talent and also maximize their potential in the most optimum way.
Libertha Hutapea 4:23
My background, actually not from people side, not, not with the HR areas, but actually with the engineering. Yeah. But then along the years, I found that Oh, my passion is not in, really in the engineering side. So I picked a career shift back then, and then, yeah, here I am as an HR practitioner, so with many years in HR consulting as well prior to joining Tokopedia. I have, I'm a Maximizer. I'm a Relator. I'm also a Discipline and an Achiever. And I, and I found that this, all this, all these strengths have actually helped me to perform well in my current role as an HR practitioner here. So yeah, here I am, happy to embark in this chat together.
Dahlia Sutrisno 5:20
Yeah, well, we're both Maximizers here and Achiever too, Libertha. As long as I have known you, since we collaborated about 4 years ago, I can really see your passion for people. And just like you, I don't have psychology or people background, but I come from mathematics background. But I think it's the Maximizer, it's the, your Connectedness that really draws you towards helping people. And, and that's why you're doing it so well, especially in Tokopedia, from my observation and how I witnessed you help all the Nakama, all the employees in Tokopedia. So Libertha, share more about now with the awareness of your strengths, how you play to your strengths in your role in Tokopedia.
Libertha Hutapea 6:11
Yeah, so I joined Tokopedia 4 years ago, yeah. So for those who doesn't really know what Tokopedia is, so Tokopedia is actually an Indonesian technology company with a mission to democratize technology, commerce to, through technology. So we, we are an ecommerce platform. And we have millions of sellers on board in our platforms. And then my role is, by the time I was hired, at that time, so I think our employees only like one-fourth of our current, current and current numbers now. And then a lot of infrastructure that needs to be built at that time.
Libertha Hutapea 7:00
Yeah, so I'm ex, I was exercising my Discipline and Achiever at that time. I love routine; I love structure. So I'm striving to get the things done, make it all happen and complete all the assigned projects. And I used those two of my strengths to really build a good governance -- yeah, a good governance. Because at that time, I think I found that so many unstructured processes and systems that needed to be fixed. And together with the team, we developed many governments, many guidelines, especially around talent and development strategy. And as well as I'm using my Maximizer and Relator strength to educate, to coach all the leaders, the entire organization, and also my team to follow the right norms that we've created. So yeah, I'm very glad that along the years, I got this opportunity every day to exercise my strengths.
Bruno Zadeh 8:06
Excellent. Dahlia, I would like to hear about, so your Top 5 are Competition, Maximizer, Achiever, Learner and Focus. How does that play for you? Can you tell me a little bit?
Dahlia Sutrisno 8:18
Yes. You know, I have a story. When I first joined Gallup, Jerry Hansen asked me, "Dahlia, how do you find your, your, your strengths?" I said, "This CliftonStrengths is wrong," you know, because at Gallup, you know, you will put the Top 5 at the desk. So everybody would walk past -- and I was new -- everybody would walk past my desk, and they would see the first thing is Competition. Bruno, I was like, "That's it! I'm gonna have so many public enemies, you know, because I have Competition No. 1." And I was really trying hard to tell Jerry, "Like, Jerry, this is the reason why you hired me. If you look at my resume and my background, you know, I'm a very team player. Like I come from sports like rugby and softball and, and netball. Like I've never do like a solo sport. I was trying so hard to explain to him that I'm not competitive. You know, just because I don't want people in the office to feel that they have to, you know that I'm going to be the public enemy.
Dahlia Sutrisno 9:29
But anyway, after Jerry Hansen explained the CliftonStrengths to me, I must say I love my Competition. Because Competition and my Maximizer means that I don't settle with the status quo. I don't settle with mediocrity. And I think, you know, my friends say I'd like to live life on the edge. But to me, it's a beauty, because it takes me out of my comfort zone. So with Competition, Maximizer, with Achiever and Focus, so, you know, I always set very high standards for myself as well as my, for my clients. But with my Achiever and my Focus, I don't get distracted. So, you know, in today's world, Libertha and Bruno, with all the social media, you cannot beat me. Social media cannot beat me! My Focus and my Achiever will not let social media beat me. So that's how I play to -- any goals I set, I will achieve. That, that's how I play to my strengths.
Bruno Zadeh 10:34
That's a good explanation. It's very, very interesting what you say, because when you complete CliftonStrengths the first time, everyone focuses on isolating only one strength of, "I'm a Competition" or "I'm a Maximizer." And as you develop yourself, and you grow and you have more self-awareness, and awareness of others, you realize that you play your strengths, really, as a package of 10 or 12 playing together. And you also learn also to moderate your strengths and use them in a way that it helps others as a team player. So that's a very nice explanation. I would like to know, What are your role models and how they inspire you? Can you tell me a little bit about that, Dahlia?
Dahlia Sutrisno 11:21
Yeah. So I mean, as I mentioned, my Competition is No. 1, and I have Achiever and Focus. I love sports. I love to watch F1 -- Formula One. But my role models in sports are Paralympians and even, you know, I'm doing leadership. Even as leaders, I find Paralympians are good leaders as, as my role models. So one of my favorite is Amy Purdy. She is a Paris snowboarder, an inspirational speaker. She is an entrepreneur and also she has been called the hero by Oprah Winfrey. She is an amazing dancer; she dances so gracefully, even with two prosthetic legs. So Paralympians, you know, really prove to me that the only limitations that we have is in our minds, and that your mental strength can conquer any of your physical disabilities. So my role models, Bruno, are Paralympians.
Bruno Zadeh 12:25
I can see the Maximizer and the Focus in action here. So I'll leave you to ask a question to Libertha as well.
Dahlia Sutrisno 12:33
Yeah. So I would love to hear from Libertha. Libertha, so who are your role models? Or who is your role model, a person in your life?
Libertha Hutapea 12:43
Yeah, so I'm a Relator. So my, my role model is actually my own father. Yeah. So I think there's something very special about him that throughout his life, he only worked for only one company. So can you imagine if he were in this era? So I think it's a quite a surprising fact that we still have those kind of people.
Libertha Hutapea 13:11
So yeah, my father always taught me even during my early career life, he taught me that, Don't choose the profession because it's, this is a popular job, you know, this has got the highest pay in the market. No. He always give, give advice to me that, Follow your passion. You need to understand your strengths and be excellent in what you do and, I mean, be, be an expert in your chosen areas. And you must be successful in that, in that role. So yeah, that, that's the, one of most important career advice that I took along my career life. And, and that also motivates me, when I just a career shift from the engineering towards the HR areas.
Dahlia Sutrisno 14:10
Wow, that's inspiring! I mean, yeah. Bruno, a lot of us keep changing jobs. But I cannot imagine, I don't think we can find someone right now in our generation who sticks to the same company in the same job as loyal as your father. But that's really great advice, and that you take your father as your role model.
The Story Behind Euphoric Coaching
Bruno Zadeh 14:36
I love the story. Thank you for sharing that. That's brilliant. And what I love, it's, you both have different models, but they are both very aligned to your strengths, when you take a step back. Now my next question to you, Dahlia, it's, why Euphoric Coaching? I want to know what's the story behind, because you could have set up another title. But Euphoric Coaching, it's really, I'm curious to know -- that's probably my Input somewhere. I would like to know. Can you share with us?
Dahlia Sutrisno 15:05
Yeah. So Bruno, Euphoric Coaching is my ikigai, or in French, it is my raison d'etre -- is it right? Did I pronounce it right? Yes. So I would say there are many signs that this is my calling, to help people with coaching and to develop people. And really, I asked one of my mentors in business, his name is Chris Mohawk. You know, I did a coaching with him. And I asked him, How do you feel after being coached by me with the CliftonStrengths? He said, "Euphoric!" I said, "Well, I want everybody who's get who gets coached by me to feel euphoric!" But, but really, why Euphoric Coaching? I have two stories I'd like to share. I mean, this is my raison d'etre; it's my, my purpose.
Dahlia Sutrisno 16:02
One of my clients who is a stage 4 cancer survivor, his name is Mohit Mathur, I've actually written an article about his story on my LinkedIn. So Mohit one day wrote to me, and he told me how his life has changed positively from applying what he learned from our coaching session. He calls me his guru. And he said, "I really value the 1 1/2 hours of my life with you in the coaching session." It was just a phone call; at that time, Zoom was not popular yet. He shared how his perspectives changed, and that led him to be more conscious with his habits and his health and his wellbeing, and how he evolved as a leader daring to lead differently, even with his cancer, you know. And he was sharing with me how he got promoted. Like all that joy that he shared with me his success stories was heartwarming for me.
Dahlia Sutrisno 17:04
And in his message that he wrote to me, he ended with -- and this is someone I've never met in person; the coaching was on the call (he was in India, and I was in Singapore) -- he said, "Do you have any plans to come to India, Delhi? Let me know, and you can stay with us. My wife Ankita, we'll be happy to receive you, along with our kids." And he was happy to share with me also that, "Hey, I've got my second baby." So to me, that is very meaningful that I've made a mark in somebody's life.
Dahlia Sutrisno 17:38
And also my second story is that I have a good friend who is also my salsa dance partner. She was murdered by her husband 2 months after the wedding. And I promised her with all of my heart when I give her my last kiss at her funeral, I said, "For the life that is taken away from you, I shall use this gift of life, every bit of it, to do meaningful work from here onwards." And the day that I launched Euphoric Coaching, I called Mohit to thank him for inspiring me, because it was his message that made me say, "I am going to do this." And he said, "Dahlia, thanks for this news. Today is my birthday." And I didn't know it was his birthday. And I so believe that this is Maktub, like Paulo Coelho says, the universe conspires. And it's been 4 years now, Bruno.
How Strengths Feed Performance
Bruno Zadeh 18:39
That's a beautiful story, story and very inspiring to see how you dedicate it to change the life of people. How do you think strengths fits in the performance piece when you coach?
Dahlia Sutrisno 18:51
Ah, well, I personally, as we all already mentioned, I started at Gallup. So I was introduced first to the CliftonStrengths. I was introduced to the strengths-based psychology and the methodology to perform. So my manager, this great manager, Meliani Wu, she applied the strengths-based methodology in my development. And it gave me so much confidence to be with my strengths every single day, and to be aware of my blind spots to perform. So I use my Competition, my Maximizer, my Focus every single day -- I'm very conscious, and I see results. So, so, you know, I feel, you feel good, you know, to lead with your strengths. You don't, you don't feel judged. You don't have that limitations, you know, the cognitive bias and your self-doubt and all of that. It just breaks all those barriers in your brain that will drive you to perform.
Bruno Zadeh 20:03
Thank you for that. I'll leave you ...
Dahlia Sutrisno 20:05
Yeah. Thank you. I mean, I'd like to hear from Libertha too. I mean, personally for you, Libertha, the same question: you know, How does strengths feed into the performing piece for you, maybe also through your observations with the people in your organization?
Libertha Hutapea 20:25
Yeah, I think I do agree with your statement before that,, I would like to add it like, you know, I really believe that the right strengths actually help you to perform in your particular role. Yeah. Because as an HR person, I think many of us would be, would believe like or dreaming on how to, you know, have the right person at the right place in all positions in, throughout the organization. And sometimes as an HR person it's, you know, it's, it's kind of like a frustrating situation. Because there's a lot of pressure, yeah. I mean, start from the hiring, from the development, thinking about the career, the growth, how to retain our key talents. And sometimes I just, you know, talk to myself and then, Can we really find the right person at the right place? You know, until I found, and I was introduced to Clifton, CliftonStrengths, by Dahlia, thanks to you.
Libertha Hutapea 21:36
And then after that, my mindset is actually shift towards, we need to exercise the right strengths at the right time. So it's not just, you know, sometimes this, it's not about, we're having the wrong people at the wrong place. No, but it's just that maybe the person is not aware of their strengths, and maybe they not, they're not exercising the right strength at the right time. Because everyone, I believe, wants to, you know, have a sense of fulfillment in their job, right. And then I believe, when someone is actually exercising their strengths, try to minimize their blind spot, that's, that will be the, you know, euphoric, yeah -- let me borrow your term -- euphoric moments of, Oh, Aha! moments. Oh, work can be this lovely and so amazing.
Libertha Hutapea 22:40
Because finally, when you're exercising the right strength at the right situation, yes, I believe you will perform. Even though you don't have that, you know, specific, exact strength that may be really suitable in this particular role. But we, I mean, along the years, I've learned that we don't have, I mean, we have like a top, Top 10, Top 10, Top 20 strengths, or even we can work, collaborate with others, yeah, with your peers, with the team members with your directly that have, has different strengths, as well -- in fact, to complement each other, working as a team, collaborate together, and then together, we can excel and perform in our role.
Bruno Zadeh 23:28
Thank you for sharing, I think some good points here. Strengths is really an accelerator in performance when you start to understand how do you work and what you need to be able to perform. Because each people with different strengths have different lenses, like my glasses. And based on your, on your strengths and your lens, you know that to deliver a performance, you will need different pieces of information than someone else. Like I imagine for you, Libertha, you are high Discipline like me. So you might be very good to set up some process. And it's something which is natural for you. Because you probably all the time do some process. And the opposite, some people who don't necessarily have that or got, without isolating strengths more complex, because every strength plays together. But when you understand who you are, you can effectively understand where you're good at. And when you're not good at, it's not a problem, as long as you know who in your team has this strength to help you, which is a piece of complementary partnership. Now, I would like to ask you a question. How did you meet Dahlia?
Libertha Hutapea 24:43
Hmm. That was, that's a nice story. Yeah, so I met, I met Dahlia, I think, 3 to 4 years ago. As I mentioned before, that Dahlia introduced me to CliftonStrengths. So I met her in a, in a workshop together with my team, in the beginning of my journey in Tokopedia. So thanks to Dahlia once again, it was a very special moment because Dahlia helped me to connect better with my team. And on top of it, she helped me to really be aware about my team strength. Yeah. So at the time, I think I have around, I had around, less than 10 people, yeah, eight or nine people. And I was new to the company. And then we have this, we have this workshop. And then we have the team grid strengths, where I can see, Oh, all the eight, nine team members actually have different strengths.
Libertha Hutapea 25:51
And I remember that after those workshops, series of workshop, I think it is a 2-day workshop together with Dahlia, we adjusted our team structures and roles. And we try to accommodate the team strength better, yeah. So I remember that one of my team members, actually really happy because, because at the time he was assigned in, in a job that not really utilizing his strengths; it's more to, like a center of expertise role. But then he got the Relator, Maximizer, Influencing strength themes. So we shift his role to be, to lead the HR business partnering role. And at that time, he was very happy and really thankful on the change of the role, yeah. And not just for him, but also for the entire team, I found that I got better team bonding.
Libertha Hutapea 27:02
And then we, you know, after, after this workshop, actually, we really understand each other and how to leverage each other's strengths. Yeah. Because I'm not really strong at the Influencing themes. But I have I think two or three of my team members got really strong at that theme. Yeah. So wherever, you know, this Influencing skill is needed, then I will push three of them to help me and cover me in that area. So yeah, that, that's one example. So yeah, and then some of them already, I mean, some of them are still working with me in my current team; some of them already rotate to the other team. So yeah, I'm really thankful and grateful. I think that's a very special moment for us.
Dahlia Sutrisno 27:56
Yeah, I'd like to add on, Bruno, as the coach and trainer observing the team, I would say for Libertha, it was new for her, and she didn't know the team well yet. But I must say that the accelerator of knowing the strengths of the team, with the DNA, you know, the DNA, the collective DNA of the team, and then knowing Libertha's strengths, the team, they're new to Libertha as their leader too. So them to know Libertha's strengths, and Libertha as a new leader, new to the organization, new to the team, she was very open to be vulnerable, to get, you know, to share insights of her strengths to the team. And that is the key. If we talk about accelerator, Bruno, that's the key to trust. The team quickly trusted Libertha. And I must say with all of my heart, because I connect with every single person in her team, they all fell in love with her. They all love Libertha. Until now, I have people keep telling me how, you know, great experience they have been working with Libertha as their leader.
Why Is Leadership Development Important?
Bruno Zadeh 29:13
Yes, trust, it's one of the many elements of good leadership. And my question to you, Dahlia, it's, you're so focus-oriented, and why is leadership development so important to you? You had some conversation previously, but I would like you to share, Dahlia, why leadership?
Dahlia Sutrisno 29:31
OK. Libertha has a role model: her father. My father is the best leader I've known in my life, you know. So, Bruno, leadership is from the self to the tribe; from the home to the office. I believe this, you know, from the home to the country, you look at many, you know, leaders in this world, you know. So from my consulting days at Gallup, I used to lead employee engagement projects. What I found a lot is that people with bad managers are very miserable at work, and they're not able to perform at their best.
Dahlia Sutrisno 30:13
So as a Competition person, as a Maximizer, that frustrates my Maximizer. You know, I'm like, I want people to be happy; I want people to be at their best. And so, as, you know, the Maximizer that I am, and I have Relator in my Top 10 and my Individualization and my Positivity, I couldn't stand it. So, you know, for me it's, How do I empower people to be at their best? And the only way is to start with the leaders. So I use the strength base and the positive psychology with the leaders first. You know, and so that's why leadership development is very important to me.
Bruno Zadeh 30:59
Do you use a specific framework in your leadership curriculum?
Dahlia Sutrisno 31:04
Yes. So, so my framework is similar to the Gallup's behavioral economics model: You start with strengths; you apply the positive psychology. For me, my framework is self-awareness to self-actualization. Start from within or be without. You know, I come from martial arts background. My brother Brad, who is also my mentor, is trained in Wing Chun kung fu. I do Muay Thai boxing and Brazilian jujitsu. Now spiritually, I learned that one person's development -- your character, your attitude, your mindset -- all starts from within. So the, the leaders I coach, I use the CliftonStrengths Assessment tool for insights to start with a self-awareness, always from within.
Dahlia Sutrisno 31:52
And it's not biased when I use the tool, because the tool is scientifically proven. Then I use the power of feedback for action. The results will get you to greater self-confidence, and you will naturally self-actualize with your success, just like Mohit's story that I told you earlier, my client. Yeah. So I would like to hear the same from Libertha. So maybe Libertha, for you, what is your point on leadership development?
Libertha Hutapea 32:26
Yeah, so I think I would share the leadership development from the organization angle, yeah. So here in Tokopedia, we believe that leadership development is very critical. We invest a lot in this development program, because we believe that the leaders are the ones who create the culture, and the culture later on will drive the performance. We have our 3 DNA. Tokopedia, I mean, really appreciates our own culture. So we built 3 DNA straight from our founders.
Libertha Hutapea 33:10
So 3, our 3 DNA consists of focus on customer and make it happen, make it better and also growth mindset. And based on my observation, for, for the team that has, let's say, a leader that really have a strong 3 DNA, we can, we can see that the entire team will, will also exercising their 3 DNA in, in the expected manner. But when, when the leaders not really get buy-in or, you know, get internalized with our 3 DNA, and that's, sometimes the problem happens, yeah. So, yes, we, we incorporated so many programs; we did experimenting in a lot of leadership development programs, start from the hiring. We built our own leadership curriculum to internalize our culture as well.
Libertha Hutapea 34:15
And also, recently, we established like new coaching and class system, because at the end of the day, every single person is actually unique and has different challenges as well. And we cannot survive without coaching. Because not, we, yes, we have so many programs. But I don't think that all the programs that we've provided can capture all the individual needs of our leaders, because the company's growing bigger and bigger. We have around, right now, almost 800 leaders, and the majority of them are actually millennials; a majority of them with age less than 30. You know, the average is only 28-29 years old. So most of them are having the first-time experience as a leader in our own company. So yes, we are aware that we need to invest a lot.
Libertha Hutapea 35:21
And within our coaching ecosystem, we applied the CliftonStrengths framework as well. Yeah, we started with our senior leadership team. We gathered them and, you know, have them involved in the self-assessment with Gallup's, with CliftonStrengths, and also have a team workshop together with certain group of leaders. And recently, we also expand this from work to our key talent development programs. You know that thing, yeah, lately, the Great Attrition trend is happening, yeah, everywhere. It's just, you know, it's a big headache in HR, how to retain their employees. And we found out that actually, out of so many criterias, actually, the purpose is critical. Yeah. And, I mean, the job purpose is actually very, very critical.
Libertha Hutapea 36:30
So we try to help our leaders and also our employees to understand that, why they need to work with us in Tokopedia. We internalize the purpose of work even deeper, through coaching, and also help them to be aware of their strengths and how to use their strengths to accelerate their development, their growth, their career success in their current role or even within the organization. So that's, that's the recent development that we did in, in our team, in our organization.
The Role of Strengths, Coaching in Leadership Development
Bruno Zadeh 37:12
How do people react after, I mean, you talk about a lot of leaders, and I love your coaching ecosystem. So how often do people receive a coaching session on their strengths?
Libertha Hutapea 37:23
Yeah, so based on the feedback of the recent Key Talent Development Program, actually, the coaching and mentoring got the highest satisfaction score. So out of so many programs that we provided to them -- we have done elearning, social learning, mentoring, coaching; oh so many -- and then they're very, very excited about the coaching. And, you know, right after the coaching, then, "Can we have this for all of my team members?" And then -- wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. We need to build that internal coach ecosystem well first, before we expand it to many more people, yeah. Because, because we just started this, this, this initiative, I think, 1 1/2 years ago, yeah. And then at that time, we don't have any internal coaches. And then after almost 2 years, we already internally certified like 100, 100+, 100+ coaches. But yeah, it's still not enough to coach all the almost 4,000 or 4,000+ Nakama that we have in Tokopedia. So yeah, so we are really happy with this development.
Bruno Zadeh 38:43
Such a definitely euphoric moment!
Libertha Hutapea 38:48
Exactly! Thanks to Dahlia once again!
Dahlia Sutrisno 38:54
I'm happy, I'm happy to, you know, cause I'm also half Indonesian. I think if my father hears this, he will be very happy that I have contributed to the development of talent in Indonesia. So yes, euphoric.
Bruno Zadeh 39:11
Do you think we've, so Tokopedia is growing so quickly, and you started from a small company to now 4,000 people-plus. Do you think you will observe a change, in terms of everyone seems to be very enthusiastic about coaching, and it will have an impact on your culture, like everyone wants to coach each other, because we observe that coaching just develops the brain and helps people get better and find solutions? Do you observe, do you believe there will be a change as you coach more and more people, because you have already 100 coaches, so it's a lot, Libertha. What do you think? What's your thought on that?
Libertha Hutapea 39:53
Yeah, I think we, actually we believe that every leader needs to be a great coach. Yeah. So I think, yeah, when we were working as an HR, every day, you, you found different challenges, with different demands within different organization. I mean, the business units are the directors. Yeah. So when we introdu -- I mean, when we started to train our leaders to be a coach, and it's not easy. Because, you know, sometimes leaders need, I mean, I mean, when, when they need to position themselves as a coach, they cannot be telling the team to do ABC as, as they usually do as a leader, right? So they need to step back and try to help the team members to, you know, find, find their own solutions in every single problems that they have.
Libertha Hutapea 40:59
I believe that, yes, we have so many supporting ecosystem around, you know, how to track productivity, how to ensure that people have high ownership or accountability of their work. But I've seen that when the leaders not being able to coach the team members well, usually, the problems will last longer than it used to, I mean, used to be. So that's when the HR team needs to, you know, help them. We have a people partner, people adviser for all the leaders. And yes, people partners also learn how to be a coach to their customer, to their leaders as well, to help them to be also a good coach to their team members. So it's, I think it will be quite a long journey, Bruno. But yes, I believe this is one of the right solutions that we need to keep on doing for, yeah, just to ensure that a bigger benefit that we deliver to the leaders and the teams in the wider organization as well.
Bruno Zadeh 42:22
Absolutely. And I can reflect on that; I just, that's my Learner speaking a lot here. I've just done a course with Gallup last week, which was a Boss to Coach Part 2, and it's all about, one of the capabilities that we observe is the coaching capability for managers and leaders are essential. Because instead of telling, we're asking the right question will make the person reflect, process differently and take more accountability. But because you ask the right questions, the person will come back with a solution which is individualized, and will probably match naturally their strengths on how they do things. So they will also enjoy more and get more engagement piece. So you tackle a very good point, an essential point here: coaching capabilities are essential to develop people. I totally agree. Now, my next question to you, Dahlia, it's, you know a lot of tools, you're a coach; and you have your own coaching practice since 4 years, and you have been very well-trained. Why do you choose CliftonStrengths as a tool instead of another?
Dahlia Sutrisno 43:31
Yeah. Well, I have tried the MBTI and the DiSC and all. But I mean, it's obvious, Bruno. First of all, I have been introduced to the tool when I first joined Gallup in 2010. As I mentioned, my great manager applied the strengths-based methodology for my development. I personally, you know, have evolved as, as a person greatly from it. So first of all, there's the belief in the tool. I believe in the assessment. And then I got trained to coach and, you know, I trained the coaches as well. Now, what I really like about the CliftonStrengths tool, you know, and all other tools are good too, but why I choose the CliftonStrengths tool, No. 1, you know, also because I have Focus. So I like, I'm, I'm loyal like that; I have Focus. Just use one and master that well.
Dahlia Sutrisno 44:28
So, but CliftonStrengths is very accurate. You know, I have clients who are very high Analytical, and initially they're like, you know, like, is this validated? How do you, how is this CliftonStrengths designed? You know, they question how the CliftonStrengths is designed, in terms of accuracy. But all, I would say, that all of my clients who have gone, who initially have doubts around the, you know, all these personality assessments or psychometric assessments, after they learn about their strengths from the CliftonStrengths, they say, "This is really me." And they say, This is crazy, how accurately CliftonStrengths describes their, their innate talent.
Dahlia Sutrisno 45:16
So one is accuracy. The other one that I really like CliftonStrengths is, yes, it brings out the uniqueness in you, you know, with the different combinations of your talents and strengths. Most importantly for me as a coach is the "How." So it's very practical to motivate my coaches into action. I mean, if I say, "OK, Bruno, you're a Strategic Thinker. I am a Strategic Thinker. Libertha is a Strategic Thinker." But what CliftonStrengths does is, we all think differently.
Dahlia Sutrisno 45:51
So you are maybe the Futuristic person, so you're very visionary. Libertha is the Context person. So she's more about, you know, what had happened in the past. She wants to know the context. And then maybe I am the Ideation person. So I'm the creative Strategic Thinker. So it, you know, it's more, to me, precise, but also practical to take action. Like if you, if I say, "Oh, you're an introverted." You know, I don't like when people say you got to be extroverted, but how? You know. But in this case, you know exactly, and CliftonStrengths also gives you the action points on how you can maximize your strengths and how to play to your strengths. So that feeds into the practicality of the "How," how my clients can, you know, take action forward.
Creating Accountability With CliftonStrengths
Bruno Zadeh 46:54
In regard to performance, Dahlia, how do you create accountability using CliftonStrengths? Do you have some example or something to share on that?
Dahlia Sutrisno 47:02
So, you know, blind spots are to blame for many accidents, OK. So when my clients are aware of the powerful dynamics of their strengths, as well as their blind spots -- especially the blind spots -- you're talking about accountability. And this is the accelerator, because a lot of people, they're not aware of their blind spots. You know, but from the beginning, if you're aware of the blind spots of your strengths, most of the time, my clients will straightaway go -- and this is the euphoric moment -- "OK, Dahlia, tell me what I need to do." There is acceptance and appreciation to -- "Nobody told me this is my blind spot." You know.
Dahlia Sutrisno 47:45
So my clients are motivated to take ownership of their action plan for change and transformation, because it is unique; it's not a plug-and-play or one-size-fits-all approach, you know. So they, accountability comes from their awareness of their blind spots and relating to their current situation, the current state of engagement or productivity or performance, you know.
Dahlia Sutrisno 48:11
Another way is also, we were, we will identify the accountability buddy. So if you have a team, who actually would complement you as a partner to push you, you know, to stay accountable. I mean, if not, then it would be me, you know. I would use my Achiever and my Focus to hold them accountable. Yes. So, maybe for, in my case, as I'm doing the coaching, Bruno, right, I would like to hear from Libertha. You know, coming from HR and managing, you know, a lot of people, in terms of performance, so accountability would be a very huge challenge for you, Libertha. What are some of your challenges, when it comes to, you know, accountability; you know, people not really meeting your standards? What would you, what are some of your challenges?
Libertha Hutapea 49:12
Yeah, so, I think, when it comes to accountability, I think, here in Tokopedia, we've, we've invested a lot in, you know, getting people to have the high ownership, because it's part of our DNA. And as I mentioned before, we also assembled so many the right infrastructure to, to hold everyone accountable to their OK, to their goals, to their, you know, have, like, we have like a goals tracking system. We have even a wellbeing monitoring system, so many systems.
Libertha Hutapea 49:49
So I think the key that, I think another challenge that we found in the organization is, even though everyone is actually pushed to hold on accountable of their, their target, their goals and their responsibility, their assigned projects, but we also need the leaders to help, help in problem-solving, right. So speaking of the blind spot, because in many, in many cases, I think it's, you know, people think that, Oh, I'm, maybe I'm not, maybe I don't have the right capability to deliver this project, you know. Maybe I'm not the right person in this role. And then maybe -- I found some cases when, when people got promoted, and then, you know, have a bigger responsibility, and then they started to freak out: "Oh, I don't think I can, I'm not be able to deliver this and to get a significant impact to the team." And then when I coached them, actually, they're just not realizing their blind spot.
Libertha Hutapea 51:03
So I have one case where one leader actually, you know, has Analytical, very, very high intellectual as well -- Intellection as well. And then during their, any, you know, any problem-solving, decision-making, the team seems like, the team perceives him as a slower decision-maker. And, "Oh, you're the one who makes us not successful in this project, you know. And there's some accountability problems in our leader," you know. And when I talk with the leader, actually, is not having problem with accountability problem, but because the Intellection and Analytical strength that he exercises so much, he enjoys, you know, having a brain, you know, like a long brainstorming discussion asking, Where do you get this data? Why this? Why that? Why don't like this? What if we tried this scenario? you know, and so on and so forth.
Libertha Hutapea 52:08
And, and I told him, Oh, actually, this is not an accountability problem; this is your blind spot of your strengths. So please get, you know, exercise more pract -- become more simple, more practical, and you should use your other strengths. Fortunately, he has, like, another strength, which is Maximizer, as well. Yeah. And then, and we told him to, you know, exercise the other strength as well, to balance the blind spot that you have, you know. So sometimes it's not only about accountability, but, you know, during coaching session, then you will see the right, root-cause problem. Yeah. And then it helps you to solve the issue in the right manner.
Bruno Zadeh 52:57
That's a very nice example you bring here. And I think it's important to know your team and to know who you work with and knows your strengths, but the strength of others. Because sometimes, your team member can give you some insight about receiving the right feedback, to say, Hang on here -- you overuse your strengths. I think we are going a little bit excessive here. Jim, would you like to something?
CliftonStrengths Tips for Managers
Jim Collison 53:24
Yeah, let me, let me, there was a question in chat earlier. And I want to kind of ask you guys. I know we got some more stuff to cover, but we're kind of up against the end here. But I want to get this in. And, and let me start with, I want all three of you to kind of answer this question: If you thought about some tips for managers -- because managers are under fire at the moment, right? All kinds of things are going wrong -- tips for managers in managing with CliftonStrengths. So if you think a tip or two, I won't prescribe who it goes to, but who wants to start, as you think about coaches helping managers, or managers who might be listening, tips to help them -- who wants to start? A couple quick tips on our way out here. What do you think?
Bruno Zadeh 54:04
That's perfect. I will start with my Activator. So as a tip, I think, especially on the, we are in a time now where people work remotely -- in the office, ... etc. Have some ongoing coaching conversations. That's important to stay on gauge, and you cannot -- well, it's rare that people perform if they don't know what to do. So by asking the right question, you will get more engaged, and as a manager, you need to develop this coaching capability, because it's important to understand that managers play for 70% of the variance of performance in organizations. That's my tip.
Jim Collison 54:48
Great tip. Libertha, how about you?
Libertha Hutapea 54:52
I will suggest for leaders to be able to ask the right questions. So maybe the first step is, Don't trust or believe the first word that comes from your team member. Because you need to deep dive, you know. You know, people can, you know, I don't think, you know, when, we're, let's say, let's say I invite people for a one-on-one with me. It's like, they will prepare, you know, so many scenarios -- "OK, I will answer this when Libertha asks this," you know. So you need to keep asking until you find, Oh, this is the root cause; this is the real feelings. This is the real, tangible things that, experience that they have. Because people will say, "Oh, yes, I'm OK. I'm happy in this job. I'm happy this." And then, 2 months later, they submit their resignation letter. And then you're, "What?" So yeah, asking the right questions -- don't really believe in the surface, but deep dive into the deepest that you can take in.
Jim Collison 55:57
I like it. Dahlia?
Dahlia Sutrisno 56:00
Yeah. So I would just share one story, you know, of my clients. So I had a client, Mansour Mbaye from Salesforce. This is a tip for managers, before you even coach. So what he did was, he was very open to share his strengths. So first of all, I always start with self-awareness. So as a leader, before you go on and coach your team members, learn about your strengths, learn about your blind spots, and, and try to match that to your leadership style. And when you understand yourself as a leader, then if you can go, go out to your team and share, "Here's my strength. This is how I lead. This is why. I have these expectations or these standards," or "This is why I respond to this." Now, what it helps is that your team, to Libertha's point, they will start to open up to you.
Dahlia Sutrisno 56:54
So whatever scenario they had, you know, thought of the night before, they will forget all of that. They, because now, as a leader, you open yourself. You're vulnerable. You share. Your, it will be very easy for your team members to open up and to want to receive from you when you discuss about their strengths, based on the insight from the CliftonStrengths. That will be my first, first, "You got to do that as a leader."
Jim Collison 57:24
Now that's great. Bruno, let's take a second and thank our guests. While they're, while you're doing that, we've got some great recognition in the chat room I'll bring in as well. But Bruno, take a second and thank our guests.
Bruno Zadeh 57:36
I would like to thank you, both of you, Libertha and Dahlia, because, first it was very difficult to match the time zone to be all in the same room together. And I know you've put so much effort in preparing that. And you were so responsive. And thank you, you, you shared a lot of tips, a lot of good insight here. So thank you so much.
Dahlia Sutrisno 57:57
Thank you for having us, too. Thank you, Libertha!
Libertha Hutapea 58:00
Thank you for having us. Thank you, Bruno!
Dahlia Sutrisno 58:02
Thank you, Jim! Thank you, Bruno! Thank you!
Bruno Zadeh 58:05
Jim Collison 58:06
Well, truly global and truly around the world. And it is a challenge, but it's been great to, you know, to get, as we think about the global representation that we have here today, super proud to be able to host this for you. And some great stories and some great advice; certainly some great acknowledgement from the chat room. So for, for me as well, I'll say thanks for coming out. Appreciate it. With that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantage of all the resources -- some of them we talked about today -- now available in Gallup Access. You can head out to gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. Maybe you're hearing this, and this is your first introduction to CliftonStrengths. And you're like, Man, how do I get more of this goodness in my life? Well, we got some instructions on how to get that purchased out there: gallup.com/cliftonstrengths. For coaching, master coaching, or if you want to become a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, you can contact us as well: firstname.lastname@example.org. We'll get you directed to the right person on that one. If you, again, if you have any questions, same email address: email@example.com. You can find us on any social platform just by searching "CliftonStrengths." And we definitely want to thank you for joining us. You guys have an amazing draw. I saw a whole bunch of new people that I've never seen before. And so if you're joining with us for the first time, first time coming to one of these webcasts, and you want to see more of them, we have a whole bunch more as well: gallup.eventbrite.com. Just follow us there, and you'll get a notification whenever we publish anything live. We want to thank you for joining us today. And if you, if you found this helpful, we'd ask that you'd share it.
Dalia Sutrisno's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Competition, Maximizer, Achiever, Learner and Focus.
Libertha Hutapea's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Maximizer, Discipline, Achiever, Relator and Connectedness.