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The Current World of the Manager

The Current World of the Manager

Webcast Details

  • What challenges do managers face as they seek to improve employee engagement?
  • How do managers effectively communicate with their teams and manage remote workers well?
  • How has employee wellbeing changed during the pandemic, and what can managers do to boost it?

Dr. Mike McDonald, Senior Workplace Consultant at Gallup, was our guest on a recent Called to Coach. In Part 1 of a series on managers, Mike and Jim Collison discussed recent trends in employee engagement and employee wellbeing, and the resulting implications for how managers work with their people. Managers themselves need to be engaged in order to lead engaged teams, and one key to improving employee engagement is effective communication. Managers serve as translators of organizational culture, and as organizations seek to plan their way forward post-pandemic, conversations with individuals and their teams will play an important role in the development of employees who are engaged and are thriving in wellbeing.

Gallup Called to Coach Webcast Series -- Season 9, Episode 20. This is Part 1 of a 4-part series on managers. Access Part 2, Part 3 and Part 4 of this series on managers.

When we think about the most effective cultures, they're really tied together by managers who can translate that culture at the organization level to the individual level of their team.

Mike McDonald, 12:16

Wellbeing, while we always knew it was vital and important, ... 2020 took us to a stark reality: There is no choice but to really consider and lead through wellbeing.

Mike McDonald, 6:59

I always think about, on my worst week, on my worst day, in my most shallow moment as a manager, if I can commit myself to feedback, a lot of great things happen.

Mike McDonald, 35:38

Jim Collison 0:00

I am Jim Collison, and live from our virtual studios around the world -- or at least here in Omaha, Nebraska, today -- this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on April 26, 2021.

Jim Collison 0:21

Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help coaches maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. If you're listening live, we'd love to have you join us in chat. There's a link right above me to do that. Or after the fact, if you're listening to the recording, you can send us an email: Don't forget, if you're on YouTube, to subscribe to the channel -- either one, either our recorded or our live channel. That way you get notifications whenever we publish something new. And of course, you can listen to this as a podcast. Just search "Called to Coach" on any podcast platform. Mike McDonald is our host today. He works as a Senior Workplace Consultant with Gallup on the Riverfront, when we get back there, Mike. We're kind of excited. I think we have a plan this summer to make our way back. Welcome back. You're -- welcome back to Called to Coach for you. Good to see you!

Mike McDonald 1:12

Yeah. Great to see you! I think you and I actually had a collision last week?

Jim Collison 1:18

Yeah. Last Tuesday.

Mike McDonald 1:19

So yeah, that was kind of crazy.

Jim Collison 1:21

Good to see you. You were locked up in an office somewhere, I think, on endless call after call. I almost had to do some kind of intervention to get you to come out for a few minutes. Cause you've been, you've been pretty busy. What's been keeping you, what's been keeping you busy?

Mike McDonald 1:36

Yeah. Exciting work for -- similar to a lot of us, right. But this, the the world of the manager, which is consistent with the theme of our conversation today, a lot, a lot of intentionality, a lot of focus, a lot of moving parts for this world and workplace that are intersecting at a frequency that maybe we've never seen before in the history of mankind. Jim, how's that for a broad, breathless statement? I think we all feel it, like, either, either directly or certainly part of our indirect world that we're working within. So, yeah, our Boss to Coach course, open enrollment, if you've all had familiarity with that. It's basically, think about our book It's the Manager being distilled into a 2-day curriculum, with coaching, coaching and coaching as the thread to it.

Jim Collison 2:21

If you want to get more info on that, I think, head out to our store, go to and look under Courses. You can see our open enrollment Boss to Coach. We're going to kind of, over the next 4 sessions that you and I together, we're going to talk about a lot of those topics that are associated with it.

Jim Collison 2:36

But I do want to remind folks who are listening, you and I got together, I think it was in 2018; I think the earth was still cooling in those days. And, and we really put together a 14-part series on Q12 for Coaches and opportunity to look at engagement. And so if if the of the world of engagement is new to you, that would be a great place to start. Just go to YouTube; search "Q12 for Coaches," and you'll see that channel. Don't be intimidated by the 14 hours of learning that is there. It's something you should look forward to.

Jim Collison 3:09

But Mike, we talked about that in those days, kind of general engagement. But we know, as we're coming kind of out of this pandemic, managers are under fire. Let's, let's set the stage -- and probably have one of the hardest jobs in the world, right. And, and we kind of know their engagement is struggling. So let's set the table for what we're going to talk about. What's kind of the, give us kind of a preamble and the kind of the resources we're going to look at in our session today.

Mike McDonald 3:33

Yeah, absolutely. We'll dive right on in. Well, I've mentioned It's the Manager already. And I was just telling Jim earlier, both as a, as a course leader, a consultant, and certainly as a coach, I've been working my way through this book about, you know, I've read, I've read it a couple times already, but I've been working through it about once a month. It's, it's one of those easy-to-digest reference points; it gives me great context to how I can really sharpen the aim of my coaching Jim, quite frankly, and get inside the space of a manager. And primarily, you know, understand what it is that they're working through.

Mike McDonald 4:09

But as much as understanding the context of what, of how and what they're working on is, is giving them edges. Right. And I think that's always the fight and the challenge is there are, there's so much, and we hear this over and over again from managers -- they, they, they're not saying they have a lot of things to do, but we've heard this before, right? It's that these things tend to conflict with each other. And so for us to tease that apart, wrestle apart, help them identify the right priorities, where there's real value and impact with their discretionary, voluntary choice, has never been more important. It was important back, like you said, when the earth was cooling, and now it's, it's a tenacious fight, and I will use the word "desperate." There's a desperate need, if we're going to win this thing, we need managers positioned in a better way than what they currently are. So I'm, you know, if it was a loud call before when we had this conversation, it's, it's deafening at this point in time. So there's a lot of context around the "why" that's happening.

Jim Collison 5:05

Yeah, Mike, that manual of It's the Manager -- the book that's available -- just doesn't get old. It's not one of those kinds where it's a -- it's kind of a reference book; it's not a novel that you would read page, you know, from beginning to end, but 52 chapters of advice for managers, and really, for everyone. I think, I don't think this is just a book that sits on a manager's shelf. We're going to spend a lot of time talking about it. So let's move to the next resource. What else are we going to be looking at?

Mike McDonald 5:32

Well, so we went past tense with It's the Manager; let's go future tense with our Wellbeing at Work book that's coming out, Jim, keep me honest -- May 6?

Jim Collison 5:39

May 4.

Mike McDonald 5:40

May 4, OK. I was so close. May 4 is even, it's an even better answer than May 6 because it's earlier. But no, it's, Wellbeing at Work -- difference, it's, you know, it's, it's different and unique content. But the thing about the Wellbeing at Work book is it's, it's written at that organization level and mindset. Now, don't miss the mark. That doesn't mean that it stays out on the fringes of wellbeing and what it all means in the workplace dynamics that everyone's trying to succeed through. It does take itself specifically where I was telling Jim earlier -- I was getting excited is the way it gets really sharpened to find about each of our CliftonStrengths, and how each of those 34 strengths can roll up and support the 5 Elements of wellbeing. So start thinking about the advance of that discussion.

Mike McDonald 6:29

And it's got some great coaching questions -- considerations for managers, actions for managers, and coaching questions for managers are right inside that, that book. So I know, as Jim and I, guess, selfishly lead teams here at Gallup, we were looking at it through the lens of, This is really, this, these are strong conversations. Coaching at the individual level, coaching at the, at the collective team level to move wellbeing forward. And Jim, I think the thing there, I think we got taught a lesson in 2020. And maybe I'm, I'll lead with a bias here. I think wellbeing, while we always knew it was vital and important, I think it, 2020 took us to a stark reality: Like, it, there is no choice but to really consider and lead through wellbeing. And I think we appreciate it now more than we ever have before, because we saw the absence and presence of it in a way that we had never seen before another year.

Jim Collison 7:20

We are doing an interview with Dr. Jim Harter on Wednesday. So if you're listening to this live, you'll want to join us Wednesday. If you're listening to the recorded version, it's probably out there in the channel, on the Called to Coach channel, follows this one, if you're subscribed as a podcast. We had Jane Miller on, our COO and President, couple, oh, 2 weeks ago or so. And we really talked about, Mike, how the -- that 2020 stressed the systems that we had. And oftentimes, systems that are not under stress, they can get away with a lot of, you know, a lot of maybe being average, right?

Jim Collison 7:55

But we learned in 2020 that the stress put on them by the pandemic broke many systems. And I think wellbeing was one of those. Wellbeing is not a new topic to Gallup, right; we've been talking about it for 10 years. We wrote a book on it 10 years ago, which, all of a sudden now, is, is getting a lot of attention, right, as we talk about those 5 elements. So we come to this kind of, this conversion point where I think engagement and wellbeing kind of really begin to come together as we, and then, you know, we layer strengths on top of that, of the how. So it's a, I think it's an exciting time to look at the three of those components. We're going to spend a bunch of time talking about that over the next couple sessions with you. We've got one more resource for folks to take a look at as well. What is that one?

Mike McDonald 8:41

Yeah, I would encourage all of you, if you haven't already, go out to, and there's a really tremendous article that was just put out there. I don't know the exact time stamp on it -- within the last couple of weeks. And the title of it is "The Wellbeing-Engagement Paradox of 2020." And I'll just give you, here's the, here's the headline to that takeaway, that you'll, that you'll want to go to that article for, is for the first time we're seeing in our research, the resiliency and the increase of engagement. But wellbeing, which used to be carried, right, wellbeing and engagement used to correlate and be carried along with each other; if one went up, the other went up. Now, they diverge -- for the first time that we've noticed, where wellbeing actually went down while engagement had a position of resiliency and went up.

Mike McDonald 9:30

So I think Jim, honestly, that's kind of the flashpoint for, you know, as you and I talked about this, for where I'm so motivated for our conversation is just when we thought there was some level of predictability about the culture that we work within and how it supports engagement and wellbeing simultaneously. Now all of a sudden, these two aren't predicting each other. They're not relating to each other in the way we'd seen before. We'll see how lasting that is, but I think they're just, again, one of the many lessons that we're hearing and learning about the workplace, just when we think we've got it figured out something else ships and -- shapes and -- or shifts and shapes a completely new dynamic that our coaching, as we think about managers specifically, needs to adapt to in an aggressive, aggressive fashion.

Jim Collison 10:16

Let's dive into the manager. We've titled this session, kind of The Current World of the Manager, and then we'll look at some components of it over the next 3 sessions after this. Mike, kind of give us a summary. What do we know -- for folks, I mean, we've been saying a lot of these things, but I think it's just good here to kind of set the stage and talk about it. Can you give us, you know, give us the bottom line on managers today? Where are they at in, as we look at, you know, April 2021, where's the manager today?

Mike McDonald 10:41

Yeah, well, here's the signature statement that we all need to know: Managers are no more engaged than the teams they lead. And that is really interesting. And here's why. When managers are categorically engaged, the teams they lead are 59% more likely to be engaged themselves. So let's just cut to the chase right there, Jim. Managers are not any more engaged right now, and certainly in the United States, than the teams they lead. And yet, if a manager is engaged, the team that they lead is 59% more likely to be engaged themselves. So when we think about just, you know, the, what's our best strategy to engagement, what's the engagement level of the managers in your organization?

Mike McDonald 11:24

So again, we just keep, we're just going to, this, this pressure point -- for lack of a better point of reference around managers -- it's, you know, the book was titled, It's the Manager. I mean, now, it's just underscored, highlighted, italicized even more than it was before. So all roads still continue to go back through that pathway of the manager. And we, our coaching us to get there as well. We need to be thinking about how we coach to and through that particular population for us to, again, for us to win the workplace in the world we're operating in, we've got to get there.

Jim Collison 11:52

Mike, what kind of, what's different today for managers? Or, or, as you've been working with folks, you know, over the last year and coaching them, have you seen a different trend in what they're saying about their role and maybe the support they're getting? Or have the topics changed? Are they being more transparent? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Mike McDonald 12:11

Yeah, well, that role of translator, we talk about it all the time. But, but when we think about the most effective cultures, they're really tied together by managers who can translate that culture at the organization level to the individual level of their team. And that is a tight spot. And we'll talk about this, specifically in our fourth of these 4 discussions, Jim. But one of the things -- I'll kind of put out the trailer for that, that fourth session -- is that when we think about managers, I think we have to be really active thinking about how well can they translate some of those tough but necessary decisions on behalf of the organization? Do they understand it? Do they buy into it? Do they believe it? Maybe did they have a chance to even inform it to some degree?

Mike McDonald 12:56

And every organization is having to make decisions that are necessary for their own sustainable growth, but, but the conversation has to extend itself in its most meaningful way, in a way that the manager is having that locally with their own team. And I'm not so sure, you know, that every manager feels that confidence, feels like they've got the, the background to it to sit down. And so I wonder, Jim, maybe there's a lot of managers out there, that, hey, this is kind of a tough but unpleasant, but necessary conversation I need to have with my team. But rather than engage in a conversation, I'm going to just drop this piece of paper off on their desk or send them an email, and just run away as fast as I can. And just hope that things, you know, turn out well, which, right, we would all know would categorically disengage the team in the process of it.

Mike McDonald 13:36

Or, but just imagine, right, if I can, if you and I, Jim, can qualify that conversation and have a high-level discussion with our team and give the background to it -- why is, in the short term, it's, it's somewhat disruptive and uncomfortable. But how does it set us up for a sustainable future? And we have solutions and a confidence level and the capacity and the success of this team, it can be one of the most powerful, engaging discussions we could ever have. So the, the same, the same content, but a very different experience, based on the capacity of that leader. So that's one aspect of it.

Mike McDonald 14:06

The other, again, that I would contend with, it might be more necessary and more important, but I wonder about the position too that we're putting some managers in, where, are they really able to advocate on behalf of their team? Are we actually creating, for that feedback loop, so I think very specifically about these two words: endorse on behalf of the organization, and being able to advocate on behalf of their team.

Mike McDonald 14:29

And by "advocate on behalf of the team," Jim, that's where if you were a senior leader, and I've had a conversation with my team, and I've got some really useful feedback, do I have the invitation and the space to reach out to you and meet with you and say, "Hey, here's some things that I've got from my team that I think are important for you to know." Right? Is there any routine or rhythm around senior leaders having discussions like that with their managers? Because that feedback loop changes the entire conversation across the organization. And imagine, Jim, if I get to sit down with you and say, "Hey, you know, that last decision, the messaging wasn't great, there was a couple of words we used that didn't, kind of made the group feel marginalized, you know. Or maybe the timing was off; if we could have done it on the Friday instead of the Monday, people would have had, you know, an experience around it or they could have processed that differently, whatever that would have been.

Mike McDonald 15:13

Or maybe the decision itself, maybe there was some really great input from the team. And given the status of the decision, maybe we probably should have just tapped, tapped into a couple teams, just to make sure we had a good broad -- but that, but here's the thing: Most managers, you know, won't, won't, with courage, reach out and say, "Hey, my team thinks this is a terrible, you know, a bad idea. And there's some things we could have learned from and done better. But if we can create that space, we release a lot of the stretch and challenge that managers are having to work through. That gets them aligned. And all of the best of what they can do then gets released -- that translative spot that they're so necessary for now is optimized. Or, or they can get stuck, right, and now their disengagement starts to mount, and we lose the, we lose the rest of the culture as --

Jim Collison 16:02

It starts to work its way down, right, that, that, that rotten apple begins to affect everything around it, right? And with, with real potency -- it's not, it's not like, it's, it's not like one on the team. They're like an accelerant on the team at driving engagement.

Jim Collison 16:20

We're gonna cover some data points in just a second. But JL Vollmer says, Curious if the "thriving American" stats will be updated soon with 2021 data, in other words, our, kind of our Q12 data or State of the American and Global Workplace, with vaccines and reopenings? Are there predictions how quickly this will rebound? Well, JL Vollmer, we're not in the business of making predictions. We don't do that. We just kind of follow the numbers. But I would, I would say, Mike, I think between now and our summit coming up this June, I think we're getting ready to release some of those numbers from last winter, from this spring, as we think about the Northern Hemisphere, first quarter, last quarter and first quarter of this year. So I think those numbers are coming. But Mike, you've got some numbers you want to share with us. What are some of those key numbers that we have?

Mike McDonald 17:05

Yeah, let's just follow JL's lead and we'll just go on into that conversation. So here's 4 numbers. And just so you all, if you all remember our Q12 series, I love to work with this framework of the empirical, the emotional and the experiential, right. So we're going to triangulate and converge around those 3 features. And as we dive on in with the empirical, Jim, there's 4 numbers that I think really jump right out that are going to become guideposts and reference points for our conversation today.

Mike McDonald 17:29

So here they are, if you want to write these down, find something to write with, something to write on. 44% is the first digit that we'll be referencing. 44% is the first, first digit. 47% -- second number you'll want to write down. 39% -- sorry, let me back up 44% is the first; 47% is the second; 40% is the third; and 39% is the fourth. We're gonna reverse-engineer each of those, each of those numbers: 44, 47, 40 and 39.

Mike McDonald 18:06

Jim, the 44% refers to the number of individuals, the percentage of the U.S. workforce who can strongly agree that their employer has communicated a clear plan of action in response to the coronavirus, COVID-19. 44% can strongly agree with that, OK, Here's what's interesting, Jim -- well, actually, I'm gonna hold off. I'm gonna, I'm going to, I'm going to touch on all of these comprehensively. The second number, the 47%, is the percentage of the United States workforce who say that they can strongly agree that they feel well-prepared to do their job. I hope in the backdrop of all of this, we're hearing, "manager, manager, manager," and going back to that translative role that the manager has to occupy.

Mike McDonald 18:50

The 40% is the percentage of the U.S. workforce who strongly agree that their immediate supervisor keeps them informed about what is going on with their organization. OK. And then the fourth data point, 39%: 39% of the U.S. workforce strongly agrees that their organization cares about their overall wellbeing. So you can see the threads, right? All of these resources really work their way right on through. These 4 features, these 4 reference points, but think about this, right? We are at a precipice, right, we're at a point where there are massive shifts as the workplace really works to redefine itself. It's -- I'm not even gonna talk about "new normal." I'm just gonna talk about disruption, change and transition, the swirl still of uncertainty.

Mike McDonald 19:40

Here's why these 4 numbers matter as much as they do. They've actually declined. They're at their lowest point. So Jim, when we go back over the course of time, we measure these exact same 4 items in March of 2020. We measured them again in May of 2020. And then we measured them most recently in December of 2020. The stats I gave is our year-end stats around this state of the workplace as it works its way back through COVID disruption around communication, preparation to do the job, the role of the local manager and then the care and thoughtfulness around wellbeing.

Mike McDonald 20:15

And just for the point of reference, employer communicating a clear plan of action, that's actually down 11% from where it spiked in May. Preparation to the job is down 4% from where it was in May. Immediate supervisor -- keeping up with our theme of manager -- immediate supervisor, that's down 10% from where it was in May. And then this notion of wellbeing is actually down 13% from where it was in May.

Mike McDonald 20:41

And here's, so Jim, I, you know, it'll be interesting as, as you know, as JL points out, as we continue to measure these with more frequency, I think, as this transition takes place, here's the lesson I'm really compelled and held accountable to, and I would love to push out to all of us, is I, I'm worried that maybe we think we've made it, or that maybe we've become a little comfortably numb to the circumstances. But as these data points would indicate, we haven't made it yet. We're not there yet. And so while people may have, you know, stabilized on the surface, that below the tip of the iceberg, there is a lot of uncertainty and turbulence and a lot of work for us to do as coaches and managers to sustain and take our teams on through to a very successful future as we continue to put these conditions together.

Jim Collison 21:26

As we'll hear from Jim Harter on Wednesday, as we talk about those numbers, a couple times I've heard him speak over the last 6 months, and he's used the word, you know, the May numbers as a rallying cry, right. There was a rallying effect to -- we, you know, there was the stay-at-home orders. People were home for the first time. Everybody's figuring some things out; it's a little bit of a crisis. And people rally during times of crisis. And then there's this slow kind of, as we get towards the end of the year, at least here in the United States, numbers begin to surge. But we didn't see the same rallying effect with, in those, at those moments. And so we know the managers are kind of under fire -- in this, in this case, learning to do new things in new ways. And it was sustained.

Jim Collison 22:14

And so, Mike, I love the point, we've kind of now set a new baseline, right, for when we look at engagement and where we're going. The new baseline is today. I don't know if we can look back at the, you know, I think we felt like even maybe towards the end of late 2019, you know, we had celebrated, increased each year. You know, we'd seen 30%, 31%, 32%, 33%, right. That global number began to move to maybe even a 34% or a 35%. That whole thing is maybe pulled back a little bit, right, in that. And, and we've got some serious kind of, we got some serious things to look at. When, when we, when we think about the engagement of a manager, how can, moving forward, then -- so let's not live too much in the past -- we know, like what, what could we be doing as we think about moving forward? What, what advice would we have in this case?

Mike McDonald 23:07

Well, so let's, let's take ourselves -- and to, to your point, Jim, to that, we'll take ourselves into the air traffic control tower of each of those 4 fields. I think, and this is what we love about coaching, right, is we aim these conversations. We aim coaching at something. And I think for all of us, these data points become targets for our coaching, and certainly for managers to be mindful of. So every single one of these 4 items, centrally, can, can and should be driven, certainly some more specific in the language than others, by that most local manager.

Mike McDonald 23:36

So for me, Jim; Jim, for yourself, how is it that we're part of the communication channel, the clarity of the action plan that our teams need on behalf of our employer and related to our response to COVID-19? Right, just where, where does that show up for expectations? Where does it show up for materials and equipment? Are we translating that with specific aims around the each of the [Q]12 items, but communication is not information. I'll, you know, let's just draw a line in the sand there. Information, if we do it poorly, is just the transmission of content. We're just shoving words across at each other.

Mike McDonald 24:11

Communication -- and I would love to have us all think about this -- challenge the organizations you work with to go back through the way they, the way they share content. And think about this. Every organization has habits about the way it talks to itself, you know, about the way it transmits information. And if information doesn't equal communication, communication, maybe if we lift it up to a higher order, does it actually drive engagement on the receiving end? If I receive this message from Gallup on any aspect, how does it actually change my decision-making, my behavior for the better on the receiving end? Right.

Mike McDonald 24:50

And we should go back through and audit the, do we always send the same messages from the same source? Maybe we should reexamine that. And do we always send our messages in the same way and give too much assumption to the fact that if somebody possesses content, that we've engaged them that we're driving performance? And I would contend that a great way to do this, Jim, is, is, as we think about how we can combine this notion of communication across each of these 4 touchpoints -- communication of action plan to COVID; preparation to do job; immediate supervisor keeping the rest of us informed about what's going on with the organization; and the organization caring about my wellbeing -- we can convey emotion in that communication, if we do it well, right.

Mike McDonald 25:32

And so at the very least, I would contend, can our communicate at the organization level, it should at least create a parallel local conversation, Jim, that sets me up with accountability and expectation that to, to have that local conversation. So if Gallup puts out an overall message like, Hey, here's some decision-making around our return to work, also, in conjunction with that, I should be speaking to my team about that exact topic, and bringing that conversation locally. And then now we're creating conversations that are leading indicators; now we're engaging; now we're changing our decision-making, our behavior, our local sense of control and ownership, and not just pushing information out but creating a strong and vital feedback loop.

Mike McDonald 26:15

So you can see the difference between the two. That's where I just, I think that we have a lot of opportunities and think about now how that makes me feel, Jim, as a local leader. You've equipped me to have a great conversation, right? And with the expectation, I get to tell you how it went, you know, without feeling fearful, anxious or apprehensive. If it didn't go well, not necessarily, you know, that being because I did a poor job necessarily. That we get to really audit the value and impact of what that conversation represented.

Jim Collison 26:44

Mike, off script for just a moment, when we think about what we know about communication, have we heard, listened, asked questions -- have you heard anything? As we think about effective ways the pandemic changed fundamentally the way we communicated to our teams, right? Because where we used to just be able to maybe do it in person, or what have you, have you, what do we know about communication? Or, or what, or do we know some things about communication a year into this that say, there are effective ways; there are ineffective ways? You know, anything along those lines? This is totally off script!

Mike McDonald 27:19

No, it's actually not. And Justin put a, put a comment in the chat earlier that I think is a great segue into this. And we've got Lisa and others who are endorsing as we move forward. But yeah, the notion of, it's just fascinating to me how infinite the topic of feedback actually is, Jim. I mean, it is, I don't think we'll ever reach the limits of like, "Yep, box checked; we know everything we need to know about feedback." And that's, that's the primary fulcrum underneath all of this, as we think about where managers can activate the best of their local culture and translate it most effectively in this, you know, in this role that they occupy.

Mike McDonald 27:53

So when we think about feedback, I'd -- let's, you know, just love to have us come back around on that specific topic. When we look at the groups, you know, in the explanation of feedback and its relationship to engagement, and I want us to start thinking about three different groups, subsets in the workplace right now. We've got one group who never works from home. OK, one group who never works from home. This hybrid model, right, where we've got a group who has some choice, some opportunity to work from home but maybe go on site by their own discretion, or as their role would call them. Then we've got a group who exclusively works from home. And there's an interesting story line there when we think about the, again, I use that metaphor "the fulcrum of feedback" as we get underneath what can happen.

Mike McDonald 28:39

Some interesting numbers, and the relationship between engagement and feedback continues to tell itself. And I'll just kind of use this to set the edge as we take this conversation further. But we look for, the group who never works from home, 75% strongly agree -- now this is of the engaged population who never work from home. So remember, we're starting off with the group that's engaged. But for that group that's engaged who never works from home, 75% strongly agree that they received meaningful feedback in the last week. It's a strong number, Jim, 75%. I mean, we're starting to eliminate everything at 75%.

Mike McDonald 29:17

For that hybrid model, 65% -- 65% say that they strongly agree that they received meaningful feedback in the past week. So there is a dip, right, that hybrid model, so now, Jim, you can see we have to start kind of -- I guess I'll use that verb "chase," we have to start chasing people a little bit more with our feedback if we're a team leader. And it steadies itself -- the group that works exclusively work from home, 65% strongly agree, of that engaged population, that they received meaningful feedback.

Mike McDonald 29:46

So first off, let's just make sure we hit the mark here: "meaningful feedback," right? So let's make sure we get "meaningful feedback" really well addressed. And then think about the active pursuit of how we apply and add value through meaningful feedback, regardless of where our people are working -- specifically, as we can see in the numbers, those folks that are not just conveniently showing up on site every day, who we can take advantage of hallway conversations, break rooms, lunch rooms, etc., to transmit communication. There's a pursuit there that shows up in that data point.

Jim Collison 30:17

Why do you think that first group is as high as it is?

Mike McDonald 30:21

No, I honestly think it's, I think it's, Jim, I think it's that we have a proximity advantage in the fact that if we're on site, and they're on site, I think there's defaults that show up. When I see your face, that, that kind of holds me accountable to like, Oh, yeah, I should talk to Jim. Oh, Jim's in his office; I see him. Or I, you know, Jim, how many conversations have you and I had in the hallway where we transmitted, you know, conveyed really important information? And I think we lose the -- there's no virtual hallway out there, so to say. There's a, you know, etc., and we lose that organic transmission. I think that can easily explain the gap.

Jim Collison 30:53

Well, even when you and I connected this morning, in the preshow before this, not quite the same feeling as when I saw you Tuesday in the office. Like, I didn't get to talk to you till the end of the day, because you're so busy. But it was, it's interesting, it did have that effect. I've been saying throughout the year that I really have enjoyed this time, of, of at-home work full time, and I've been very, very productive in it. But yet, now that you're saying it this way, I was, when I saw you on Tuesday, I got, I came up another level. You know, I was like, "Oh, Mike is here," right? Kind of. So there is something, and the numbers would say, right, regardless of how I feel, the numbers would say there's something to that.

Mike McDonald 31:39

Yeah, yeah, there's no question. Eileen's touching on this, I think, you know, and Ali's all over it as well. But I do think, you know, we're social creatures. Even when we go through the Q12, our, you know, Jim Harter would tell us, every one of those elements is relational at its core. Even Question 2, I love thinking about this, Jim, and we'll get into it later on. But Question 2, Materials and equipment, is resources. But think about this: Our relationships we have with each other are resources. Jim, you're a resource for me. And that's driven by the relationship that we have with each other. My access to you relationally gives me insight into content that I wouldn't have otherwise. There's institutional knowledge there; you have a capacity, you have expertise. And if we have a relationship, that becomes a really active, vital resource for me to be able to do my job better. And so even at that level, those, as human beings we have social needs, but the utility of that as it drives performance shows up in a multitude of ways, even the materials and equipment I need to do my job right.

Jim Collison 32:39

Mike asks, Lisa is asking a great question like she always does. She says, Does this depend on where the manager is working? If the manager is home only, can you address that?

Mike McDonald 32:49

Yeah, it's a great question. You know, and you all will know the answer. But great managers defy the circumstances. Great managers just override whatever dynamics and features, we have one of our best practice managers here at Gallup. She, for the last -- and I've worked with her, she's, she'd be in my Q10 Best friend at work category -- she has worked from home, and her team was on site pre-COVID 100% of the time. And Jim, she had some of the most amazing world-class engagement numbers that we'd ever seen. And she's a world-class manager. She, you know, she just figures it out.

Mike McDonald 33:29

So it really comes down to the talent level of the manager applied with the intentionality of that manager to figure out and re-create that culture. So that's what's exciting is we're not lacking at all; the solutions are in front of us. I think, for us in this conversation, if we can equip managers with the eyes-wide-open empirical data points that helps them guide and organize their efforts, I think we can map that intentionality back to the talent and the motivation that they have to be able to bring out the best for their teams. That's where I get really excited about these 4 discussions that we have coming up.

Jim Collison 34:00

Do we have any concept of frequency and how that matters in communication and feedback?

Mike McDonald 34:06

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's amazing. A couple, a couple points about frequency. Yes, frequency does matter. But the notion of "meaningful"; we can't lose meaningful, right. And we could talk about what meaningful looks like. But when we look at this, you know, we've got a couple of data points here that, that really tells a profound story about frequent and meaningful feedback, specifically in the past week. OK, let's reverse-engineer this. But when we look at the population who strongly agree that they have received frequent and meaningful feedback in the past week, or the question specifically is, "I've received meaningful feedback in the past week," that population who strongly agrees, 70% are categorically engaged. So Jim, it's a money shot, right? I mean, I just love this. When we think about defaults and effort, feedback, if we get that right, the numbers are profound. It almost mathematically -- almost mathematically eliminates the percentage of active disengagement down to 1% of that population who say that they received meaningful feedback in the past week.

Mike McDonald 35:15

If we flip that around, if we look at every other category, anybody who said 4, 3, 2 or 1 [on a 5-point scale], only 22% are categorically engaged and 17% are actively disengaged. So the multiplier is well, well worth our time and attention. But again, I love the fact that we can get down to just these simple, straightforward, but powerful ways that managers can organize their day. I always think about, on my worst week, on my worst day, in my most shallow moment as a manager, if I can commit myself to feedback, a lot of great things happen. A lot of great things happen.

Jim Collison 35:49

Mike, JL asks another great question out there: How does Gallup define "meaningful"? Right? It's like, sometimes it's the actively engaged or actively disengaged, when we think about those those terms. How do we define "meaningful"?

Mike McDonald 36:02

Yeah, it's a great question. We didn't, right, that we didn't. And I would contend, JL, to your point, that is a fantastic conversation for every local manager to have with the person on their team. "Hey, when you get feedback, or when we have feedback-driven conversations, what's useful to you?" Right, so I would start there, and get some ownership on the part of that person approaching the part of the, the people on our team. The other aspects, Jim, that we ask is, we ask questions, "Do you have -- does your manager have regular meetings with you?" We didn't define "regular," but it's a great conversation to have with the person on our team -- How often should you and I be getting together through your performance. Doesn't mean that you have to prescriptively do what they say. But it's a conversation that helps them join in. One of the main things we know is that these discussions around feedback are most effective when they're co-created. So I would start there.

Mike McDonald 36:54

Jim, I do have 4 specific points that I think add some edges to what I think meaningful feedback can look like as we've really been able to dive into it and break apart, you know, 4 ingredients that make up a great recipe. If when, when we get into feedback, and conversations that local managers would be having with their team members, we would encourage you to start off, and you -- this is incredibly strengths-based -- but start off asking that person to tell you about their wins. Like where is success showing up for them? And open up the conversation that way.

Mike McDonald 37:27

And it's interesting, if we can coach managers to start off with that question, as we all know, it opens up solutions, it opens up pathways for the conversation. But I contend, maybe as much as anything, when a manager starts off asking the person on their team to share their successes first, changes the tone of the conversation for what's to follow, but I think it also puts that manager by default into a position of listening, Jim. And I think a lot of, you know, I think that's a necessary maybe overcorrection, to just know that if I start off my feedback discussion with a question that puts me into the mindset of listening to what it is that that person on my team is going to share, great insight. I may think I know, Jim, what you're gonna say, but what a great interrater for me to ask that question open-ended and to see if I was right. And just how much more context you'll actually add to it without me rushing right in with my own content. "Jim, I think you did well, here, here, here and here." I mean, how much, how much are you really going to add to that if I get too overly aggressive in that conversation? So that's a really powerful point of ownership. And again, that notion of putting ourselves in a leadership posture.

Mike McDonald 38:31

The other thing that I would have is think about -- the, the second portion -- is, is the, the details, right? We hear this all the time. But general feedback like me telling Jim, "Hey, Jim, that was a pretty good job! Keep doing more of that!" Not bad, but pretty hard for you to get, you know, into the, you know, the details, the, the mechanics specifically of what it is that reproduced that success or could reproduce that success. So the main thing there, when we think about "Focus on specifics," is to be absolutely sure to establish, what does great work in the role actually look like?

Mike McDonald 39:04

So Jim, when I give you feedback, what's the context of where you're at, relative to great work? And then with specificity and detail, how do you get there if you're not there already? Or how close are you? Or, progressively, how much have you, how far along have you come on your way towards what greatness in that role looks like? So we just don't want to leave people short-handed. Right. There's an enthusiasm, there's a proximity, a proximity to that goal. But, but always walking around, never conceding or compromise, what does excellence actually look like?

Mike McDonald 39:37

By the way, Jim, I would think that's one of the compro, that's one of the concessions -- maybe not concessions, "casualties" is a better word. Excellence really got lost in 2020. I mean, people really shifted into a notion of survival. But I would challenge all of us and a lot of clients we work with, we don't, we have external value propositions that we need to uphold. We have clients, customers, patients, students who don't have the luxury of us just being OK, of us just being in survival mode. Like they need us to be adding as much value to their own chance of success futuristically as they ever -- maybe more so, right. And so I think it's easy for us to kind of lose sight of that value proposition in times of disruption.

Mike McDonald 40:20

So that notion of keeping our team members mindful of "What does great work in the role look like?" I think we have to really lean into that. Because otherwise, Jim, I think in survival mode, it's just "hot potato." "Hey, I just want to pass, I want to get this off my plate and on to Jim. Because the whole world is swirling around me, and I'm barely able to keep up with, up with it myself." And I think we can lose sight of just how necessary we are for the success of those, again, external stakeholders that rely on us so heavily. So that's the second piece.

Mike McDonald 40:48

The third one I would have to think about is just Pairing encouragement with constructive feedback. And I think now more than ever, right, there is, there can be the capacity for error, mistakes, exploration. You know, a lot, a lot of things were new. We saw things we'd never seen before in 2020. And I think the point about Pairing encouragement with constructive feedback, is that, you know, in the reality, giving some grace and margin to people. Look, for, you know, Don Clifton, you know, Jim used to tell that great story about, Hey, you know, imagine the traditional family breakfast table. You've got a couple of spouses sitting there with a, you know, a 3-year-old and an 8-year-old. And the 3-year-old spills their milk. And it's crawling across the table and it's working its way through the butter and the pancakes and the knives and the forks and the glasses, etc. And it's crawling across the table. And one spouse says, "You spilled your milk." The other spouse reinforces that, "Hey, you spilled your milk." The older sibling says, "Hey, you spilled your milk." And Don has this great point, like, Guess who knew that first, at the age of 3?

Mike McDonald 41:52

So inside our own workplaces, do we really need to get that heavy-handed, you know, in pointing out the error? But where we can get really involved with, through great feedback is the conversion of that. And that's where pairing encouragement with constructive feedback is, How do we convert that shortcoming, that error, to the degree that we can, to a learning opportunity? How do we make sure that it, you know, that not just ourselves learning from it but the rest of the team learns from it? And how does it set us up with more strength moving forward? And the resiliency on the other side of that, Jim, I feel so much better about myself when you gave me the permission to actually acknowledge my mistake first but convert it to a, Hey, we won't do this again. And, you know, in some cases, it could be a stretch, right? Maybe we explore, explored an experimented in an area that we didn't before. And so how do we convert the courage to go into that space and place and endorse it appropriately?

Mike McDonald 42:47

Last point, and this is the theme that we talked about already, is just Keep those conversations frequent. Meaningful conversations at least once a week -- if we can commit to that habit, we win. We absolutely win. And here's, here's, when we look at the psychology -- and remember now, Jim, we'll shift into the emotional piece of this -- is how does it feel, right? The frequency of those conversations and when they're meaningful, it increases the focus, it increases the confidence, it increases the courage that I have. The absence of those conversations actually increases the anxiety, the apprehension, and the, may, and the fear that I have, the, just the, just the absolute fear that I would have. So again, the frequency matters, when we think about what's emotionally at stake and these 4, these 4 specific ingredients to what we would say is really effective feedback. So I'd encourage all of us again -- you all know this, but as we think about the managers we work with, I'm not sure that they all do. And I think it's a great way for our coaching to extend itself on through the managers that we're working with.

Jim Collison 43:53

I think it's a great framework, as you're coaching managers, to begin to get them to reflect in these 4 areas to say, How do you feel that's going for you? How, what, what kinds of things are getting in the way for you in that? Where is it breaking down? What kind of feedback are you getting? I think, Mike, one of the things we, we, we've been hard on the managers, and we often think of the managers as direct-line managers to their employees, but then the managers of managers get left, are off the hook. This has kind of been one of the areas for me I've been highlighting, and I think, you know, some folks get that next rung and they, they're like, "OK, I don't have to manage anymore! I'm a, I'm a director; I'm a VP. I don't, I don't manage people." No, you manage leaders, which is even more important, right? You have a direct influence over the experience that a manager has who's working, who's in the trenches, right, who's on the front line with them. And so there's some, there's an experience point to this as well. So what do we know as we think about that experience? What other data do we have around that? What's the experience been so far?

Mike McDonald 45:04

Yeah, no, great question. So here's what we encourage all of you, as you think about going back to, again, the mechanics of engagement. There are 5 specific items in the core Q12, Jim, that really, I guess become targets for all of this to converge with. And so when you talk about leaders thinking about how they can translate and bring their organization along through the managers who are part of the organization, these 5 engagement items really stand out as those that are most necessary during times of disruption -- categorical tough times. And we really approach disruption as being different than change and transition, Jim. Like COVID's a great example. Like COVID was a disruption. It was not part of our organizational strategy. It was not part of our organizational change, right? We weren't trying to, you know, redefine our product mix or rebrand ourselves; it forced itself on us. It forced itself on the world. And so there's a reactive stance to it rather than a proactive stance to it.

Mike McDonald 46:04

And so, similar to when we operate out of our weaknesses, disruption can actually take options off the table. And so we, you know, there's some great insights there for us to drive forward to these 5 items so that we can open up that window where more solutions can show up and we can resubstantiate our foundation of engagement during those tough times. But I'll walk us through these and then I'll, I'll pull them together in a cohesive story.

Mike McDonald 46:27

The first one is, is "Knows what's expected of me at work." It's gonna be really hard for us -- just imagine, and we all revisited this back in our Q12 series, that pre-COVID, only half the United States workforce could say "Yes" to knowing what their expectations were. So I doubt COVID took that item forward. Right? I'm pretty sure that it probably will move backwards. "Materials and equipment" shows up, right. You know, I poke fun at this a lot, Jim, but think about, you know, all of a sudden, working from home now. Have there ever, have there been more complaints on record about somebody's printer at home relative to the one that they had at work, right? And just the simple inconvenience of paper and ink and maintenance of a printer, if there's a printer? I mean, just things like that. But that's just, it's one of several nuisances that roll up to become barriers to how well people can perform and just how they feel about the work they're doing. So "Materials and equipment is second."

Mike McDonald 47:21

And in Question 3, "At work, I have the opportunity to do what I do best" really got robbed from us, really got threatened and attacked in during times of disruption -- certainly 2020, right. Just when we, Jim, we were in the slipstream; we were in a groove. We had all sorts of routines at showing up on work that really promoted the best of our work and the work that we do with each other. There was an alignment there. Now we're working from home and everything's manual; we got to figure it out. How do we interact with each other over Zoom? You know, what's, what's my own habit and default? I just, you know, have to relearn everything all over again and fight for that window of opportunity to "do what I do best every day."

Mike McDonald 48:00

So you can see in those first 3 items, those are all -- we would say are foundational, right? So the, the pressure to make sure we reestablish that foundation is really profound. So we can't give that away. Nothing else is sustainable if those 3 items aren't on point. So we would say those 3 are necessary. The last 2, though, are really interesting, because to me, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, the forest for the trees, etc. But if we have that foundation intact, it goes back to some of the, the conversation that I, that I was involved in earlier here, Jim, where the fourth item is "Mission and purpose of my organization helps me feel my job is important."

Mike McDonald 48:36

And just think about that, that we can, you know, in disruption, we start to -- our peripheral vision shrinks. I just see the work that's right in front of me. But is my leader, is the organization helping me be mindful of the fact that, Hey, these are short-term wins, but they're going to accumulate and roll up. If we can, if we can brace ourselves through a couple of these preliminary points, there's, there is an intentionality and a sustainable future on the other side of this in the way -- and I think Question 8 is really important for us to lean into -- external value proposition, external stakeholders, the big "Why?" behind our role, the "Why?" behind our organization. If we ever lose sight, Jim, of our clients, customers, patients, students, etc., I think we'll lose our way. It doesn't matter how prescriptive those steps are for Expectations and Materials and Equipment and Do Best, we don't know the "Why?" What's what's the purpose, or what's the meaningfulness of what we're all trying to do? But if we have that established, in times of disruption, we'll fill in all of those gaps with our own effort because we can make sense out of the context and the experience. So Question 8 becomes really important.

Mike McDonald 49:44

And then the other side of it, Question 9. Question 9 is the fifth item that we really need to lean into. And I think, Jim, that's, that's in large part -- Question 9 is "My associates are committed to doing quality work." So what's important about Question 9 that's, that's unique but similar from Question 8 is we're still talking about value. So Question 8 is my value, I would contend, in a way that rolls out and expresses itself externally. Question 9, the value proposition, is extended internally. So Jim, what's the quality of work that you inherit from me that sets you up for success? What's the quality of work that I inherit from you that sets me up for success? And those transitions and cross-functional exchanges become really vital in unifying our effort internally, so that we can have more success, despite the disruptive, tough times and circumstances that we're trying to deal with.

Mike McDonald 50:36

So as we think again about those 5 features, when we sharpen and aim our managers to lean into those 5, and specifically, their feedback driving towards each of those 5, I think we've got a great chance. And as that data would tell us in the beginning, we're not there yet. So maybe now, maybe more than ever, I mean, before we back, take our foot off the gas, Jim, this might be the time that we actually need to, need to lean into it even more so than what we thought May, March, December of 2020.

Jim Collison 51:05

Mike, that Question 9, we, in some recruiting work that I did out at the University of Maryland, I partnered with a professor there in a 50-member class over 6 semesters. And Question 9, we had them take the Q12 at the beginning and the end of the semester. And Question No. 9 could predict the, the quality of the grade that the team, these were teams getting together doing these capstone projects. And the higher they felt the quality was, the better grade was. And it was a trust factor. Right?

Mike McDonald 51:35

Yeah, right.

Jim Collison 51:35

That question really got to, Could I, can I trust my teammates to do quality work? And when they could, the projects were better. And so I mean, think about the productivity and the quality inside an organization. And if they don't trust each other for, for great quality, they're always second-guessing and sabotaging, right? They're always thinking like, "Well, if they can't get this right, I'm just gonna do it all" or "I'm not, I'm," or "I'm not going to do what I need to do because I don't believe in this, because they don't believe in me." And so it's this beacon -- it was, for us, it was this beacon question that began like, Hey, how are they feeling about their teams? It was also an early warning indicator that the teams weren't feeling good about themselves. Right. And so it was, it was one of those questions. It was crazy when we saw it in the first two, and then we tracked it over the next -- because it was, you know, we got two a year. When we started tracking it over time, it really was interesting how that would correlate to the grades they got at the end semester.

Mike McDonald 52:32

That is!

Jim Collison 52:33

We didn't tell them that. Like we didn't, we didn't leak that information. And that just kept hitting every single time. I think that can pertain too to How are we feeling -- for organizations that are doing Q12, I think they can look at Question 9 and say, How are they, how are these teams really feeling about each other at this point? It really kind of gets to the heart of the matter. There's some other areas as far as Recognition goes and Best Friend at Work, and some of those other that play into that. But, but man, that Question 8 and Question 9 together are powerful in this. Mike, as we think about, as we kind of wrap this up here at the end of our time, when we think about that wellbeing-engagement paradox, use that -- we learned a few things in there. Use that to kind of wrap us up.

Mike McDonald 53:14

Yeah, absolutely. Well, so here's what I would say -- and Jim, I think your segue is perfect. You know, really, when we think about those 5 items of engagement, when we think about this wellbeing and engagement paradox, is correlatively, it's really easy for us to feel like we're still in somewhat of a zero-sum game. And I think that's what Question 9 teaches, you know, feels like, Jim, when it's off, relative to when it's on, is if I have to extend more effort, that feels like it comes at my expense, right? I get very short-sighted. And so I'll start to withdraw, maybe retract efforts and just think about, hey, me -- whatever I need to do for me is all I can pay attention to. The mindfulness and the intentionality of whether that benefits anybody else is lost during times of disruption. And so I think that's where, as leaders and as managers coach and, and position their culture effectively, it's always making us necessary to each other and seeing that that's our best chance and opportunity to create a great lift comprehensively across our culture in a way that supports engagement and wellbeing.

Mike McDonald 54:21

So a couple of things that I would have us think about is specifically in this sharp conversion, as we consider key questions about people who are working from home all the time; never going to work from home; or starting to, you know, keep that transition moving in that hybrid role, wellbeing has to be driven primarily in 2 aspects. And we'll have, we'll tease out more of the 5 as we walk through our conversation. But for our conversation today, I would have us think first and foremost: career wellbeing, which is really synonymous with so much of what we talked about with engagement. Engagement can become a vehicle that, while it won't explain all of wellbeing, can be a great vehicle to carry a lot of the leading indicators of what wellbeing could look like around a high level of career wellbeing experienced.

Mike McDonald 55:13

So when you think about the "Opportunity to do what I do best every day," every hour, every hour, we get to spend being mindful, being mindful of what we do well, whether we get the chance to do it. But let, you know, reality will work its way in. But if we're always mindful of what we do well, we have a chance to have a much stronger sense of wellbeing. So there is literally a physical immune system that will come from just being mindful of what we do well, and then, on the other side, having a chance to do it well every day. So lean into that.

Mike McDonald 55:42

The other aspect of it that we've talked about too, Jim, is this notion of social wellbeing. And we talked about, you know, the infrastructure of culture is our social connections as human beings that we all have with intentionality. So when we think about all 12 of these questions, who are the people that approximate the best of these 12 questions? And as a leader, do I know, do I know which people really represent each of those 12 items to their fullest degree? And am I using those folks and positioning them with each other on my team with intentionality and purpose, so that we don't lose our way, right? That regardless of what we used to take for granted in the physical platform and the way we did work, the virtual is not causing us to have any barriers to great performance. So intentionality intersected with engagement intersected with the right feedback, we've got a great chance to keep ourselves moving through this change and transition.

Jim Collison 56:37

Mike, next time we're together, we're going to talk about the challenges of being a manager. We've, we've covered a lot of them today, but give us a quick little sneak peek of our next time. By the way, if you want to join us for that live: But, Mike, can you give us a little, a little preview?

Mike McDonald 56:54

Yeah, I'd love to. There is, we have some great research around the specific experience of being a manager. So Jim, one of the points that I'll bring us back to is, you know, we talked a lot about expectations today. Managers actually have less clarity about their expectations than the teams they lead. Managers actually have greater misunderstanding about their pay plans than the teams they lead. And managers actually struggle with wellbeing in the workplace more than the teams they lead.

Mike McDonald 57:29

So the job of the manager, and again, this is where I get really, I guess, biased and preferential, or maybe a strong advocate for the role of the manager, the job just continues to get really, really difficult. And yet we know every bit of success at the organization level really rests on how effective they can be. But yeah, we've got these primary features, Jim, that are working against them. And so we just need to continue to push back and create, you know, the right space or the right experience for them to be that advantage that we know they can be. So if those features aren't working for us, we'll get into more. But just imagine, right, what's working against the role of the manager to unleash the best culture that we could possibly create. So that's a teaser as we get on into our very next conversation, and that experience of the manager.

Jim Collison 58:11

We, with this 4-part series that we're putting together, kind of a follow up to the Q12 for Coaches series that we did a couple of years ago. So if engagement's new to you in our system, head back to YouTube; search "Q12 for Coaches." You can get access to those 14 hours of content, free learning that's available for you around engagement. Dr. Mike McDonald does a great job of walking us through each one of those. We talked about some of those questions today. And some of those might be new to you. So if you want to get some more information on that, each one of those questions is an hour's worth of learning that we have available there for you. Mike, I'm looking forward to the series that we have together. Thanks for saying "Yes." It's hard to get your time these days. But as the Manager Report is coming out here towards the end of the month, or toward the end of May, the wellbeing book comes out in the beginning of May, if you're listening to this in June or later in 2021, we've got some great resources for you around managers as well. So Mike, thanks for doing that.

Jim Collison 59:09

I'll remind folks to take advantage of all those resources. You can head out to If you're interested in coaching, master coaching or becoming a Gallup-Certified Strengths Coach, you can do that as well. Send us an email: That's also good for general questions. If you are thinking about something, you're like, I am bored this summer, or I'm bored this June, June 8 and 9, we got two great days coming up in the Gallup at Work virtual Summit that's available for you. Great price -- Certified Coaches get a discount as well. We'd love to see you out there. Head out to Get signed up, where thousands at this point are coming, and so we're excited about that. Find us on any social platform by searching "CliftonStrengths." I want to thank you for joining us today. Don't forget, register and be here live because it's a lot more fun live than it is -- although it's great on the recorded side as well. Thanks for listening today. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Mike McDonald's Top 5 CliftonStrengths are Input, Ideation, Learner, Achiever and Focus.

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